Abstinence until marraige--Yes or no?

[sneezer3]

Will you PLEASE not turn this into another religion debate?

What do you want me to do when somebody asks a question then? just say "I don't know"?? I even recomended we talk over IM. Besides it is other people who start a debate by attacking statements not i. I could say that anytime anybody states what they belive. I could have even said it. hmm. say about ten times cansiderding EVERTHING that you have said you belive that could turn a thread into a religion debate. I think you even answerd some questions in a thread or two. so watch what you say or you will be called a hypocret. I simply state what i belive and respond to questions. if that is cansiderd starting a Religion debate then oh well. it is not i who started it but the one who attacked me that did.

[gryphon]

@ Sneezer3 Ok, understand your point, and no comment.

@ EDric O [ and a little bit to Emprworm's comment to it but that's irrelevant ;) ]

The world is in a downgoing spiral, morals and value's being ignored and false values comming into our sociaty.

I [ strongly ] disagree. If I had to choose any timeperiode in history to live in, the present day wouldn't seem that bad an option. Look at what we have acomplisched the last millenia's. Made beautifull art, created cities, creted even peace in some cases.

In the past people where all that more civilized than we are now, numerous of examples can be found in society throughout history to make a point that that civilesation is immorall.

But I must say that getting sexual converstations and subject out of the "background" sfeer might be a valuale assit in the future. Just as the "hippy time's". Or the famous days of the American Mob. Now where are they, but still the legalisation of thing being illigal prior to those thay have brought great thing to our living enviourment.

Sitting back and saying that things are going to wast, that things in the past have been better is . . well lazy and ungreatfull to your present position. If you'r so happy with those "old moral codes" then by all means go back to them. But be hounest, they are just as bad as the ones we have now.

One guy ones stated the phrase below on , well. . you'll see for yourselfs. [ some strong words are in them to make a point, I will censor or replace most of them. If any should stay to offencieve feel free to edit them out. ]

"Things not as good as they used to be ?

Bull@#$%. But you knew that already, didn't you ? You're not loving old times, you're loving mastrubatory nostaligia. You're jack$%% off on memories of an old girlfriend, except you don't remember what it was reallt like, just your false memories, your photo album mixed with wild, crazy internet por*. Let me remind you, it was fun for a while, and we had a great time. And everything was always the ^&*(*& same. The same ideas, places, religions, convinsions. Go home, do something. Realise that you are fortunate, selfish, spoilt. There are more types of ideas then ever, and even the worst of them is a tiny miracle."

So end the quote, some pretty strong language .. .but really. . look at the world, is it really that bad ?

Can you wake up in the morning, looking at it and say it isn't beautiful ? Ok, it might be screwed up. But it's ours. And it's time people get up and do something in stead of complaing how bad it is.

[ well .. . . finally my 2 cents ;) and please don't take it to offencieve. It's not ment that way. :) ]

[Acriku]

Edric, this kind of immorality is just a step forward through societal evolution, we won't tumble into anarchy just because someone shows their bosom ::)

[Edric O]

Edric, this kind of immorality is just a step forward through societal evolution, we won't tumble into anarchy just because someone shows their bosom

Yes, yes, that's what the Romans said when their society was going the same way: "Rome couldn't POSSIBLY fall"... ::)

Gryphon, you do not understand. I have no love for the "old days". How could I be nostalgic about a time period in which I never lived?

And yes, most things are better today than ever before in history. Medical treatements, scientific knowledge, life expectancy... and that's just naming a few.

HOWEVER, other things are degrading. And degrading rapidly. Moral values are the best example.

But there is also the problem of runaway pollution, growing world tensions, etc. This isn't just some crazy nostalgia I'm having. It's a very legitimate concern. Things are going downhill FAST.

You are right about one thing: In all of human history, this is most likely the best time period to live in. And that includes the near future. From now on, things will only get worse...

[VigilVirus]

In all of human history, this is most likely the best time period to live in. And that includes the near future. From now on, things will only get worse...

You can't possibly know that ::)

[Edric O]

It is easy to see. The world has almost reached breaking point. We have put too much tension on too many things. Soon, one of the twigs will snap...

[gryphon]

Ok, tanks . . that explains a lot. :)

Think the only real big differance between us is that I don't [ or can't pinpoint ] think that "things are going downhill FAST."

I have no reason to assume that about this issue. And with that I also realise that poeple have said those things before and just after that the US did use the A-bomb [ to name something ]. But in a lot of cases the opposit has been true to. How many nations and poeple said "they are going to nuke Afganistan" just after 9-11. And besides from the atomic hand weapons the US is deploying in that region no A-bomb has been droped there.

Remember a time that slavery would never be able to be bannished out of our culture, we would always believe that biologically humans are not animals. The examples are numerous.

They only thing that is constant is change. [ within the limitations of the meaning of the word ]

Things will not get worse. They will change. And people above all, fear change [ forgot what movie the darn quote came from :- ;D ], and they will do anything in there power to resist against that change.

[ I know. . .it was a book .. . written by a guy called Frank or so .. think you all you it ;) ]

[VigilVirus]

It is easy to see. The world has almost reached breaking point. We have put too much tension on too many things. Soon, one of the twigs will snap...

Soon? It might takes decades, even centuries.

[Acriku]

He's just a pessimist with green letters. That's why he assumes the world is going to end soon. Hey wait a minute this is what the bible says...

[Edric O]

The world ending soon? Oh no, by no means! The world isn't going to end anytime soon... after all, the fall of the ruling civilization isn't exactly the end of the world, now is it?

Do you deny that we are heading towards an inevitable massive ecological catastrophe, and/or a world war (actually, a better term would be "revolution") started by 3rd world countries (most likely Islamic) who decide they've had enough of the West's exploitation?

The only question is which of those will come first.

[gryphon]

Do you deny that we are heading towards an inevitable massive ecological catastrophe, and/or a world war

yes, I do . . .nothing is inevitable. . .at least non of the actions above.

[Desert_Eagle25]

It isnt for me....Having a baby before marriage is one thing....bet eventually you'll lose control to tempteation, or in other words hornyness :)

[gryphon]

My parents never got married. To be more exact .. I don't even have a father legally. :)

[Edric O]

And you consider that a good thing?

[gryphon]

Nope, but not a bad thing either.

So what it didn't work out between my mom and dad. I don't care. I have a good live, can;t complain and wouldn't dare to ;)

Should I be less of a persone if I don't have a dad ? Arn't I as morally righteous as others ? Don't I have the abilety to be gentle, kind sweet whatever ?

Can't I get friends ?

I don't consider myself less, or my parents for that matter. I have a normall life [ for a Dutch guy ;D ]. And are more euh .. . supprised that others don't get that. :)

[Anathema]

"I'm not aware of legislation on Ibiza"

I wasn't aware of there being legislation there, either...

Ibiza and Amsterdam are probably two of the worst places in Europe to go.

A large city is never the most moralic place to visit, but what makes Amsterdam worse then other cities?

Edric, if people have sex but intend to marry later, or don't marry at all but still plan to spend the rest of their lives together, is it still a sin?

I remember reading a paper article a few years back about some catholic guy who married and divorced 15 times in his life, none of his marriages lasted longer then 3 months. He just used woman as sexual toys, and when he got tired of them he exchanged them for others. And he claimed to be a fine christian ::)

[gryphon]

Im my case my mom and dad split up just after I was born .. . .coinsidens . .I don't think so ;D

[Edric O]

Should I be less of a persone if I don't have a dad ? Arn't I as morally righteous as others ? Don't I have the abilety to be gentle, kind sweet whatever ?

Can't I get friends?

What do your parents' actions have to do with you? They are the only ones to blame, IMO. (of course, you will think that there is nothing for anyone to be blamed of in the first place...)

[emprworm]

HOWEVER, other things are degrading. And degrading rapidly.... runaway pollution, growing world tensions, etc....Things are going downhill FAST.

Edric, consider this. As moral decay spirals downward, as world tensions spiral upward, the one thing that is NOT going downhill is the nuclear stockpile of the angry world. What might your thoughts be about that?

[quoudam72]

How is it morally wrong to have sex before marriage? Who are we really talking about here anyway teenagers or adults? You can't stop people from having sex I mean think about that for a minute. It is natural for people to want to try sex. I do not think people should be look down apon because they have sex before they get married. That does not mean you should share yourself with everybody either use common sense.

[sneezer3]

HOWEVER, other things are degrading. And degrading rapidly.... runaway pollution, growing world tensions, etc....Things are going downhill FAST.

Edric, consider this. As moral decay spirals downward, as world tensions spiral upward, the one thing that is NOT going downhill is the nuclear stockpile of the angry world. What might your thoughts be about that?

There is already enough nukes in existance today to obliverate the world.

[emprworm]

i went to ibiza not for clubbing or sexual promiscuity but for a youth camp of 2000+ jr high and high school kids from all over europe for a Christian retreat. Of course, it was pretty sad when we had to walk all these young kids past all the nudies once we got off the ferry.

the island is gorgeous, but morally bereft.

[emprworm]

There is already enough nukes in existance today to obliverate the world.

true, but right now most of those nukes are with russia and the US, making the chance of world nuclear destruction a slim one. Putting all those nukes in the hands of the likes of Pakistan, N Korea, Iran, and friends makes world obliteration much closer to reality.

[gryphon]

@ Edric O

Yep, you're right. In my opinion there is nothing nor anyone to blame. :)

[Edric O]

Edric, consider this. As moral decay spirals downward, as world tensions spiral upward, the one thing that is NOT going downhill is the nuclear stockpile of the angry world. What might your thoughts be about that?

That the twig will snap wery soon indeed...