Cloned Baby Supposedly Born

[Edric O]

In fact, a clone would be less similar to the original than identical twins are to each other, because it will not grow up in the same family, or the same time period for that matter. It will belong to another generation.

[VigilVirus]

Basically, a clone would look very similar to the original, but have a completely different personality.

[IxianMace]

In fact, a clone would be less similar to the original than identical twins are to each other, because it will not grow up in the same family, or the same time period for that matter. It will belong to another generation.

That would have to depend on what grounds you are using to compare how similar a clone is to the original. If you compare a clone to its' original in the genetic makeup, then it would be exactly identical. However if you compared a clone to its' original in terms of when it was born, its' upbringing, etc, etc, then there would be many differences that would distinguish it from the original. Therefore, a clone can be both similar and different to its' original in several respects.

[ken124578]

wel, to make an clone exactly like its... wel... you know, you would have to exactly copy the envirements, scenario's, conflicts, dad, moom, family, aka, impossible.

[TMA_1]

well technology could grow to the point (one hundred begazillion years into the future.lol) where the thoughts,knowledge, and memories could be transfered into some sort of computer. like the ancients of 2001.

[Dude_Doc]

But humans can't live forever. Use any technology from any future time, the universe will sooner or later collapse. And if it won't, our suns will sooner or later "run out on fuel". And even if we somehow can create new stars, new planets and etc, the recources for this will also run out. And when we reach (if we do) that stage of technology, mankind would be so bored long time ago. No matter how many wars there will be, no matter if we transplant our brains to robot bodies or clone ourselves thousands of times. And if we do encounter both peacful and hostile alien intelligent civilizations, we will be bored a long time before the universe dies. Only God has the power to recreate new suns and planets without recources. So in the end, we will die, like it or not. Besides that, I read a CNN interview of the Rael-guy, and now, frankly, I believe they really are crazy. Why?:

1. Okay, the aliens got to earth, created humans in a lab, placed us here without any form of proof that they (the aliens) ever landed, and flew away. So, mankind was left in the stone age. We started to build civilization and etc. Only now, in the 20th century, did we "invent" cloning. And at this stage, the clones made on animals are much unstable. But the question is: why did the aliens "create" us? Hadn't they anything else to do?

2. This Rael dude claims that he was contacted by aliens some 30 years ago, who told us that we would discover the cloning-technology that would evolve in time, so that we later could clone ourselves and live forever. So why not give us the technology now? Or what about giving it to us when they created us? Why do the aliens want us to live forever? According to him we're just a big bunch of lab rats, right? The aliens themselves have the technology to clone, so they can live forever already, true?

3. About 70 to 60 years ago, science fiction was beginning to be "big". You can say that sci-fi predicted the outcome of the atomic bomb. That's correct, a sci-fi magazine "predicted" that the atomic bomb would be very devestating and etc. But that was about 1-2 years before the bomb was ever used. And so sci-fi became a mirror to the future, space crafts, aliens, thinking machines, you name it. Around 1950 was the "alien outbreak". Many magazines and TV series had aliens in them. Mainly bad aliens. The Raelians got their belief up and going for about 40-30 years ago, right? They say that every religion is just a part of human evolution, but the Bible has been around for some time now, hasn't it?

4. The Raelians say that they have spiritual contact and etc with aliens and such. They also have some "base" or whatever you call it. Well, people who has participated in their "rituals" and been at the "base", comes back and says that it's all just a stunt, nothing "extraterrestreal".

5. They claimed that they cloned the first human. A girl called Eve. They say that they want to keep the clone secret and protect her and etc from media. So why tell CNN in the first place? Why make a clone if there is no laws for "it"? Why make a clone that must learn that it is a clone, and if anyone found out, exept parents and cloning doctors of course, they will execute her, or lock her in inside a lab? Or even worse: lie to the clone about how it came to existanse. Imagine every doctor you meet, every scientist that have real proof, contacts you and say that you are a clone. How would that feel? Would you really, no matter how much evidence, believe that your own parents lied to you, lied about who you are?

So well, I will continue to believe that the Raelians are crazy. Sure, believe in whatever you want, but if you make crazy statements and claims, expect people to call you crazy... or even insane!

[Dude_Doc]

Here's the interview:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/12/30/cnna.cloning.rael/index.html

[Acriku]

I could argue, but basically that whole post was from an kid looking at people and laughing at them. They truly believe in that, just like you truly believe in God. Their's is actually more believable than the God story. So when you laugh in the face of difference, don't forget to look in the mirror of hypocrisy.

[ken124578]

(n/m)

[Edric O]

hey truly believe in that, just like you truly believe in God. Their's is actually more believable than the God story.

No it is not, Acriku. In the case of God, we have no proof either for or against His existence. However, in the case of the Raelians, there is ample proof AGAINST their claims.

There is also the *slight* difference in age... you see, Christianity traces its heriatage back to several millenia ago. Christianity is an off-shoot of Judaism, and we don't even know for certain how long ago Judaism began.

On the other hand, everything the Raelians believe is based on the unscientific and unproven claims of ONE MAN, who started everything just a few short decades ago... ::)

(And before you compare him to Jesus, I would like to point out that both Jesus and His closest followers were prepared to die horrible deaths for their beliefs. That adds A LOT of credibility.)

[Dude_Doc]

Agreed.

[Acriku]

Actually no it does not, it just adds more questioning to their sanity. They didn't have psychologists back then, so who knows *coo coo*

But seriously, you cannot push aside one belief because of the person that brought it up, it could still have happened, just maybe not with all the details put out by the head raelian. It's an illogical fallacy, to do what you just did, so try again.

You're telling me an entity up there in another plain of existence that with a snap of his "fingers" he made everything, and is all everything, is more believable than highly-technological aliens coming down and putting us on this earth? Yeah...

[sneezer3]

Actually no it does not, it just adds more questioning to their sanity. They didn't have psychologists back then, so who knows *coo coo*

But seriously, you cannot push aside one belief because of the person that brought it up, it could still have happened, just maybe not with all the details put out by the head raelian. It's an illogical fallacy, to do what you just did, so try again.

You're telling me an entity up there in another plain of existence that with a snap of his "fingers" he made everything, and is all everything, is more believable than highly-technological aliens coming down and putting us on this earth? Yeah...

You know. your right. Makes me wonder if people that die for the cuntry are unsane. ::) But i disagree with him that it makes it more beliveable. There are more people that belive in other stuff. and some even willing to die for it.<Sept 11> Does that make them right?

And God din't make everthing "With the snap of his fingers" He made everthing in 6 days Are normol time. then rested on the 7eth. And it makes more since to me then Evolution or Mornmenism More then any.

As for it being easyer to belive that some technological aliens toke us here. Well. how did they get here? i don't like makeing up stuff then beliveing it. lol. But since you don't belive i don't know why i'm wasting my breath.

Anyway. as for what i think about the cloned baby. It could it true. but i think there probbly just saying that for fame. I mean anybody could say they cloned a baby. I could say i'm a millionar that posts here. I could say i'm GW Bush. But withut any proff Whats the point? I mean they haven't even shown a baby. if theres a cloned baby then SHOW IT. i mean whats the point of keeping him stuffed back in a coner if he is there then show everbody. And if he is real he will probbly be subject to tests etc. But stuff like this to me anyway just point more toward the Rapture. Towards the second comeing, "the Wicked Shall wax Worse"

Oppsy. i shouldn't have been saying he. they haven't even told the gender :P

[Edric O]

Acriku, I have the utmost respect for ANYONE willing to die for his/her beliefs. If you are suggesting that self-sacrifice implies insanity, then you are a worthless piece of moral filth in my eyes.

And that was not a flame, it was a statement.

You're telling me an entity up there in another plain of existence that with a snap of his "fingers" he made everything, and is all everything, is more believable than highly-technological aliens coming down and putting us on this earth? Yeah...

On what logical grounds do you determine which of those is more likely? We have NO proof whatsoever for either claim, and none is known to have happened before.

Therefore, logically speaking, they are exactly evenly matched in terms of likelyhood.

The next step is therefore to analyze the credibility of the witnesses. And I find the raelians' credibility to be lacking.

[Acriku]

How do you assign logic to belief Edric? There is no logic, just what is more believable to me.

And yes that was a flame, but doesn't matter because you just misunderstood me. First of all, did you notice the sentence after what I said? No? Well look real closely, if you do, you will find the words "but seriously". WOAH hold the phone here, could this mean I was joking? Could this actually mean I was not serious? The things you find out when you read...

[Edric O]

It's no secret that my sense of humour is almost dead, Acriku... :) Sorry about the misunderstanding. :-

I don't assign logic to belief. I used logic because it is objective, while belief is subjective. I was talking about the probabilities of these particular beliefs being true. And the odds are higher for Christianity.

[sneezer3]

How do you assign logic to belief Edric? There is no logic, just what is more believable to me.

No. it is what is more beliveable clearly. Not to one person. Otherwise what is more beliveable to me. That you are older or younger then 15 Unlike what it says in your profile. say around 25 or that you are not? That you actully live somewhere else and sit around watching TV all day & playing around on dune2k?

Well anyway. you get my point.

[Acriku]

Believable clearly? If it is a question of belief, then it is not clear. And definitely not collectively clear, because one man's belief is another's poppycock.

[sneezer3]

Believable clearly? If it is a question of belief, then it is not clear. And definitely not collectively clear, because one man's belief is another's poppycock.

All i was basicly saying is what is most logicol. not just one persons opiyen is

[SurlyPIG]

hey truly believe in that, just like you truly believe in God. Their's is actually more believable than the God story.

No it is not, Acriku. In the case of God, we have no proof either for or against His existence. However, in the case of the Raelians, there is ample proof AGAINST their claims.

LOL! How about disproving the flood? There's ample geological evidence that says it never occurred. And more importantly, there is too much genetic diversity among species to support both the Ark story and the Adam and Eve story. I mean, we should ALL be descendants of Noah and his wife, right? Well there's just too much diversity among the ANY race that was supposedly on the Ark for that to be anywhere near believable for the sane and logical. Our own genetics are great history books. They can help us prove/disprove theories about major geological events. We are products of our environment. And you are a product of the scam or religion if you truly think that your religion is proven to be correct and that all other religions are wrong. Frankly I don't see what's so impossible to believe about our race being the genetic artwork about a superior species. I don't believe it, but to me it makes a lot more sense than an all-supreme being of might creating anything and everything from nothing while he has always been.

There is also the *slight* difference in age... you see, Christianity traces its heriatage back to several millenia ago. Christianity is an off-shoot of Judaism, and we don't even know for certain how long ago Judaism began.

What does age have to do with anything? Using that logic, we could say that the Earth is flat. I mean, the belief that our planet is flat has been around for a lot longer than the belief that it is round.

On the other hand, everything the Raelians believe is based on the unscientific and unproven claims of ONE MAN, who started everything just a few short decades ago... ::)

Again, age does not matter. The fact that it was started by one man (sound familiar?) does not make it any more or less relevant when compared to any other religion.

(And before you compare him to Jesus, I would like to point out that both Jesus and His closest followers were prepared to die horrible deaths for their beliefs. That adds A LOT of credibility.)

Credibility? Hardly. On the part of Jesus, if there was such a man, I would most definately call it insanity. On the part of his followers, I would call it weak-mindedness and gullibility. But that is from my perspective. We all carry our own bias. I do not claim to be any more correct than you, so do not claim that your religion is "holier than thau" (pardon the pun) when it comes to less prevalent religion.

EDIT : If you look at them completely objectively, the concept of religion, and a lot of particular religions, are genuinely hilarious. Take my sig for example. There's a guy preaching tall tales to thousands across the globe, then privately saying he's lying. Ooh, the irony. And the other day I was watching some show where a religous motivation speaker, in the same speech, says that God is not responsible for suffering, disease, etc, then 5 minutes later thanks him for curing the sick and says it has been proven that those with faith are less diseased, which in itself is a ridiculous notion. Any "disbelieving sinner" can go through life totally disease-free, then look at the Pope, the noble man. Even he is not above Parkinson's disease, though he is managing it amazingly well.

[Anathema]

I think it's a bunch of bullcrap. It would take millenia for the aliens to get from where they came to here- why don't they take a planet or moon in their own solar system? And why then abandon your own children? Makes no sense to me.

Besides, they are just moving the problem away. How did life over there come to existence?

[Edric O]

LOL! How about disproving the flood? There's ample geological evidence that says it never occurred.

Haven't we been through this already? A-L-L-E-G-O-R-Y The Bible contains many such metaphorical stories that are not to be taken at face value. I have already explained why (about 1 million times): You couldn't tell people in 500 BC how it really happened, because they would never believe you. In fact, the same probably applies to US as well.

Frankly I don't see what's so impossible to believe about our race being the genetic artwork about a superior species. I don't believe it, but to me it makes a lot more sense than an all-supreme being of might creating anything and everything from nothing while he has always been.

It might make more sense to YOU, but I have proved in a previous post that they are both just as likely. Logically speaking, they are on perfectly equal footing.

Your opinion only goes to show that humans have difficulty trying to picture things that do not follow the known laws of physics, even if those things make perfect sense on paper. An entity that has created the universe clearly doesn't follow our laws of physics, yet you take that as a reason to disprove it. ::)

What does age have to do with anything? Using that logic, we could say that the Earth is flat. I mean, the belief that our planet is flat has been around for a lot longer than the belief that it is round.

Ah, but the belief that the Earth is flat has been scientifically disproven.

And the other day I was watching some show where a religous motivation speaker, in the same speech , says that God is not responsible for suffering, disease, etc, then 5 minutes later thanks him for curing the sick and says it has been proven that those with faith are less diseased, which in itself is a ridiculous notion.

Not only is it a ridiculous notion, but Jesus Himself said it was wrong. He said we should never make a connection between disease and sin.

Credibility? Hardly. On the part of Jesus, if there was such a man, I would most definately call it insanity. On the part of his followers, I would call it weak-mindedness and gullibility. But that is from my perspective. We all carry our own bias.

Well, it seems there IS after all someone here who I can never have any respect for. Namely you. You are a pathetic piece of worthless human filth. You place no value on self-sacrifice and martyrdom, therefore I place no value on you. Weak-mindedness, you say? Any one of those weak-minded "fools" was 100 times the human you'll ever be! Would YOU die a horrible death for what you believe in? Would YOU resist to horrible torture and not say a word? Would YOU not hesitate to enter the Roman arena?

Or would you cower in a corner and beg for mercy, like the pathetic hypocrite that you are?

Do you have ANYTHING to live and die for, other than your own beloved self?

But hey, that is from my perspective. We all carry our own bias, don't we? ::)

[DjCiD]

I mean, we should ALL be descendants of Noah and his wife, right?

Actually it would have been Noah and his wife, plus his sons (Shem, Ham, and Japheth) and thier wives that repopulated the earth after the flood.

[sneezer3]

I mean, we should ALL be descendants of Noah and his wife, right?

Actually it would have been Noah and his wife, plus his sons (Shem, Ham, and Japheth) and thier wives that repopulated the earth after the flood.

THanks for point this out before i saw it ;) :) This also explans the Gentics and remeber. your body changes changes over time. my grate grate grate Grandfathers son son son son son son son. might not be identicel to me Geneticly. the flood happend a long time ago you know. Adem and eve was even longer ago.

I think it's a bunch of bullcrap. It would take millenia for the aliens to get from where they came to here- why don't they take a planet or moon in their own solar system? And why then abandon your own children? Makes no sense to me.

Besides, they are just moving the problem away. How did life over there come to existence?

Thanks for pointing that out. the bible offers some more Logic. and in detail.

EDIT : If you look at them completely objectively, the concept of religion, and a lot of particular religions, are genuinely hilarious. Take my sig for example. There's a guy preaching tall tales to thousands across the globe, then privately saying he's lying. Ooh, the irony. And the other day I was watching some show where a religous motivation speaker, in the same speech, says that God is not responsible for suffering, disease, etc, then 5 minutes later thanks him for curing the sick and says it has been proven that those with faith are less diseased, which in itself is a ridiculous notion. Any "disbelieving sinner" can go through life totally disease-free, then look at the Pope, the noble man. Even he is not above Parkinson's disease, though he is managing it amazingly well.

Religion is simply diffrant Demnomations. but they will not effect Gods judgement on mankind. Some do keep people in the dark. As for disease. Edric is right. Bad things happen to the just and the unjust :) thats even in the bible. I got a reffrance if you need one. also before you set out your lines of attack. i am not a Cathlic. i belive the pope is just a man.

:)

What does age have to do with anything? Using that logic, we could say that the Earth is flat. I mean, the belief that our planet is flat has been around for a lot longer than the belief that it is round.

Ah, but the belief that the Earth is flat has been scientifically disproven.

Indeed. And if i am not mistaken it is the guy that made his mind up that it wasn't flat saw it in the bible. ::)

[nemafakei]

There was, according to geological evidence, a flood of the Mediterranean at the appropriate point in time. Not a global flood, but, form the point of view of the authors, a big flood.