Pound North Korea into oblivion

[exatreide]

10 million south koreans in the city of Seoul, less than 100 miles away from North Korea (and in mortar range) who have no defense against nuclear weapons are in grave danger because of liberal minded fanatic imbeciles like Bill Clinton and his idiot followers think its no big deal if the braindead democrats give free nuclear capability to ruthless dictators. Idiots like Bill Clinton and his mindless followers have no problem with giving away nukes and say "whoopdie doo" but when Bush tries to STOP THE NUKES they whine and cry like babies. There WILL be a nuclear holocaust in this world, it is going to happen due to the arming of dictators by liberals. Every time idiot demmies ARM ANOTHER DICTATOR, the odds only increase.

The US should immediately and instantaneously pulverize all of North Korea's nuclear power plants.

Moters have a rang of one to one and a half miles ::). you dont get it do you.IN THE TREATY IT STATED THAT THEY CAN BUILD NUCULAR POWER PLANTS IN EXCHANGE AS THEY STOP DEVELOPING THERE MISSEL PROGRAMS!

its not the liberals who will cause ww3 its the republicans and there all american or go to hell atitude.

[Digital Guerrilla]

Even the American government has used the Kurds as relation to Saddam. The US government used them to hurt Saddam and when they were finished they dropped them so what is the point. Everybody in the world of politics is either using someone or being used by somebody. Destroying the nuclear facilites in North Korea at this point would put others in danger wouldn't it? North Korea has choosen the right moment to play the game that they are playing. Think first they admit that they have a program that due to the treaty were not suppose to have. Second they are resuming another part of the treaty that was agreed apon not to happen. Bush should just let the shipment of oil continue if this is about energy as North Korea says it is about.

[SurlyPIG]

Ace, you only need to look at history. 1994, Clinton authorized nuclear power plants in North Korea under the "agreement" that they wouldnt use them for nukes. BILL CLINTON DID THIS!

All right Emp, I checked my history and you're mistaken about clinton. NK had nuclear technology that dates back to the '60s originating from the USSR. Clinton didn't "give" them anything. Read this link before you go all over the place flaming liberals. All clinton did was sign an agreement negociated in Geneva that was supposed to de-nuclearize the DPRK. Recent admission indicate a deviation...of how much is not known...

The UN Security Council on 11 May 1993 passed a resolution urging the DPRK to cooperate with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and to implement the 1991 North-South denuclearization accord. It also urged all member states to encourage the DPRK to respond positively to this resolution and to facilitate a solution.

The US responded by holding political-level talks with the DPRK in early June 1993 that led to a joint statement outlining the basic principles for continued US-DPRK dialogue and North Korea's "suspending" its withdrawal from the NPT. A second round of talks was held July 14-19, 1993, in Geneva. The talks set the guidelines for resolving the nuclear issue, improving U.S.-North Korean relations, and restarting inter-Korean talks, but further negotiations deadlocked.

Following the DPRK's spring 1994 unloading of fuel from its five-megawatt nuclear reactor and the resultant US push for UN sanctions, former President Carter's visit to Pyongyang in June 1994 helped to defuse tensions and resulted in renewed South-North talks. A third round of talks between the US and the DPRK opened in Geneva on July 8, 1994. However, the sudden death of North Korean leader Kim Il Sung on July 8, 1994 halted plans for a first ever South-North presidential summit and led to another period of inter-Korean animosity. The talks were recessed upon news of the death of North Korean President Kim Il Sung, then resumed in August. These talks concluded with the Agreed Framework.

[emprworm]

ACE: not sure how you could actually do research and skip over Clinton's generous nuclear donations to North Korea:

"The crisis is brewing on the Korean Peninsula and involves the end game of a deal made eight years ago by the Clinton administration. In 1994, in return for a freeze on its nuclear facilities, the United States promised to build Pyongyang "proliferation-resistant" nuclear reactors and supply North Korea with 500,000 tons of fuel oil annually. "

source: http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20020625-28401752.htm

oh, and please dont skip over this one:

"One of the proudest achievements of the Clinton administration was the Agreed Framework with North Korea. Clinton assured us that it froze the North Korean nuclear program. North Korea gave us a piece of paper promising to freeze; we gave North Korea 500,000 tons of free oil every year and set about building -- also for free -- two huge $2 billion nuclear power plants that supposedly could be used only to produce electricity. Japan and South Korea were induced to give tons of foreign aid as well, Clinton being the committed multilateralist, even in extortion."

beautiful piece of historical writing, that was. Source:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A14315-2002Oct24&notFound=true

summary:

why you are trying to twist history, Ace, is beyond me. The truth is that Billy Clinton gave N Korea the modernized nuclear plants that it now uses to make nukes.

IN THE TREATY IT STATED THAT THEY CAN BUILD NUCULAR POWER PLANTS IN EXCHANGE AS THEY STOP DEVELOPING THERE MISSEL PROGRAMS!

wow, north korea dictator made a treaty! And?

Guess what...>THEY BROKE IT. but i guess you dont really care about that do you

Destroying the nuclear facilites in North Korea at this point would put others in danger wouldn't it?

cut the crap. having north korea make nuclear weapons puts tens of millions of people in south korea at risk. You are more interested in those precious north korean dictators lives than the innocent lives of millions of south koreans? The more you idiots support and defend dictators arming themselves with nuclear weapons, the faster you usher this world into a nuclear holocaust. It WILL happen. Every time another HItler gets more nukes, theres idiots like some of you in here saying "Oh, well let them be. This is a Strategic thing they are doing. Good for them! They DESERVE nukes. Let them have all the nukes they want."

You fools! YOU WILL LIVE TO SEE THE DAY OF A NUCLEAR HOLOCAUST DUE TO YOUR INDIGNANT TOLERANCE OF THIS KIND OF LUNACY! One day I hope your feeble minds finally comprehend the grave error you once made by being so 'tolerant' of dictators getting their hands on nukes. Only a total FOOL would think that a world loaded with nuclear armed dictators would not ever use them. They WILL be used.

you pathetic scums. you all make me sick. sorry, but you do. I hate nuclear weapons, and all you stupid imbeciles dont even care about nukes being proliferated by dictators.. even when we KNOW they exist, you STILL want to allow the dictators to mass produce them. You people are disgusting.

[emprworm]

I have one sentence to say to every person in here who wants to give North Korea the freedom to make nuclear weapons without any repercussions: You are a disgrace to humanity. Dont even bother talking to me again. I don't communicate with Taliban/Nazi/Alqueda/Facist/extremist people, of which you are. SO dont waste my time and never talk to me again. If I ran this board, I would ban every single person who made any post about allowing a dictator to freely make nukes. Sure you have the freedom to proclaim your hatred of the human race, but that doesn't mean you would be allowed to on my boards. Lucky for you, they aren't mine, or you'd be out of here. You want to allow dictators to freely make nuclear weapons? You are no better than Hitler himself. You are anti-humanity, and as far as I'm concerned, you are as low as a Nazi. So dont ever talk to me again.

[Gobalopper]

emprworm its Christmas be kind to the poor souls. :)

[The_Sadukar]

You don't take into account that he is quite possibly and probably completely insane ::)

If he was a true madman he would have been disposed of long ago.

[emprworm]

sorry, Gob. I must really be getting out of line if Gob rebukes me. Well I wish I could adequately explain with words how much I loathe nuclear weapons. It truly sickens me to read posts in here that are tolerant of a dictator getting nuclear weapons. I know what dictators do with weapons. History knows what they do with them: they use them. And I just cannot unerstand how I am practically the only one on this board that is outraged over North Korea's revelation to break their treaty and start mass-producing nukes. Do people in here realize that the Korean war NEVER ENDED? It is in a state of truce, but the war itself never ended!!

However, I apologize for my harsh comments. I promise that I will be light with my speech from this point on in this thread.

[Edric O]

Emprworm, calm down for God's sake! It's Christmas and you're in a mad fit of rage...

Like Gob said, try to be a little more compassionate. :)

(and just one thing - blowing up nuclear power plants is NOT a good idea. Does Chernobyl ring any bells?)

[VigilVirus]

Lol, give me an example of a dictator using a nuclear weapon or any weapon of MD for that matter (other than just chemicals). The only country stupid enough to use a nuke was actually US.

[Anathema]

who have no defense against nuclear weapons are in grave danger

Give them patriot installations. They can deter any short range nuke.

The US should immediately and instantaneously pulverize all of North Korea's nuclear power plants.

And you think China and Russia are going to let you do that? ::)

Bush doesn't give a f*ck about any Koreans. If he did he would have retreated his forces from South Korea (recently, an American APC drove over two innocent Korean girls. They were put on an american court and were released. America only fears a new balance of power.

So North Korea shouldn't have power right? Those camera installations were there to ensure none of the materials wouldn't be abused. Removal of those would make one think they're going to put it in nukes, but don't say Clinton didn't foresee this.

Btw, please post an article to back up your claim. I know for fact they once claimed to have the right to own nukes, but denied having them. Recently a false statement was broadcasted by a radiostation, stating they have nukes, but they corrected themselves. As far as I know their government never admitted having nukes.

I have one sentence to say to every person in here who wants to give North Korea the freedom to make nuclear weapons without any repercussions: You are a disgrace to humanity. Dont even bother talking to me again. I don't communicate with Taliban/Nazi/Alqueda/Facist/extremist people, of which you are. SO dont waste my time and never talk to me again. If I ran this board, I would ban every single person who made any post about allowing a dictator to freely make nukes. Sure you have the freedom to proclaim your hatred of the human race, but that doesn't mean you would be allowed to on my boards. Lucky for you, they aren't mine, or you'd be out of here. You want to allow dictators to freely make nuclear weapons? You are no better than Hitler himself. You are anti-humanity, and as far as I'm concerned, you are as low as a Nazi. So dont ever talk to me again.

Jesus Christ! I am so sick of this shit. You're calling everybody that doesn't agree with you a nazi. When you called me an antisemitic asshole once I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but now you are showing your real colors.

If you really think that anybody who opposes the Bush administration is suddenly a nazi you have some real problems in your mind. "you are no better than Hitler himself" ---- I can barely think of any greater insult! You are comparing board members to someone who persecuted millions of jews and other minorities over a political dispute! You are the most repugnant person I have ever met

So dont ever talk to me again

I, for one, won't. Unless you apologize to every single person involved in this thread.

[VigilVirus]

Hehe, I completely agree with you, Earthnuker. For some reason, emprworm must think that he is God and cannot be wrong - and all those who go against his philosophy are sinners who should be condemned to an eternity of hell.

LOL

[Dude_Doc]

If North Korea create nukes, they put South Korea in danger, yes. But they don't have range enough of reaching the US. Also, Russia and China is so much stronger than NK, and both has better weapons, nukes and strategies enough to pulverize NK anytime. Don't forget Japan either. Anyways, the ditator is only one man. Okay, sure, Hitler was one man too, but his propaganda was so strong that people today follow him and his ideas. Communism is another thing. It is about uniting people, and make everything exactly equal to everyone under that rule. Mind that Kim Jong's own people can disagree with him. It depends, of course, how stable the rule is in the country.

Anyways, call me an optimistic fool, but I don't think we will see any Judgement Day within my life, or at least the next 100 years. Merry Christmas everyone!

[VigilVirus]

What about Stalin, dictator of USSR? People were put in prison and killed for criticizing him. Only after he died, people could do that. He held the whole country under his control for more than 20 years.

[exatreide]

Same here emp. you went to far. i'm done here

[emprworm]

I, for one, won't. Unless you apologize to every single person involved in this thread

absolutely not. there is no way...absolutely no way I would ever apologize for rebuking a low life for supporting North Korea having nuclear weapons. And as far as all you people who think all the US cares about is balance of power, that is absurd. Even laughable.

France has nuclear weapons- missle range 7000 miles. They could hit Washington DC if they wanted to. I don't care. I'm not worried about France. Let them make all they want. The US does not protest France having a nuclear arsenal.

Great Britain has nukes. And? Let them make a million more.

Japan has nukes. Cool. Don't bother me. The US is not "scared" about this!

Germany has nukes. Oooh, I feel so threatened. Like I care. I'm not worried about Germany. The US does not mind Germany having nukes.

Heck even Australia has nukes. OOoooh, the US is sooooo outraged over that. Poor little US imperialists are so 'threatened' by Australia having nuclear weapons, we probably want to bomb Australia! lol! I'm so sick of that crappy argument (that all the US cares about is balance of power).

North Korean dictator having nukes?!! And Earthnuker doesn't care? Pitiful. And yes, anyone who doesn't care about a dictator getting nuclear weapons is a disgrace as far as I'm concerned. What is the difference? People supporting Dictators owning nukes, = similar to nazi or taliban. I see no difference, really.

What moral argument could you POSSIBLY make that condones a dictatorship building nukes unchecked? Go ahead, surprise me. Maybe you actually have one.

You're calling everybody that doesn't agree with you a nazi.

No, only those people who support dictators obtaining nuclear weapons. The nazis were very similar in this manner. And I am not calling them Nazi's. Only that they are as low as a nazi. I recognize they may be politically different. But as far as value is concerned, they are an affront to humanity.

Dictators should not be allowed to get nuclear weapons. Your tolerance of this will usher the human race into a nuclear holocaust and I will gladly accept your indignation before I ever lay down my strong stance on this matter.

can barely think of any greater insult!

an insult is merely words. We are talking lives here. So yea, there are things much worse than someone feeling insulted. However, I never specifically insulted anyone. My harsh language was insulting in general, of which I apologized for, but I never specifically cited someone here and flamed them.

You are comparing board members to someone who persecuted millions of jews and other minorities over a political dispute!

this is not a political dispute. Kim Jong is well known and his atrocities are well documented. The Korean war never ended. Condemning HItler and those who support him is not a "political issue" and neither is condemning North Korea and those who support it. It is a moral issue, politics has nothing to do with it. At least not from my side. And furthermore, I never compared anyone to HITLER, only to a Nazi. There are many Nazi's today that never killed anyone. Second, I never called anyone a Nazi, I said that they are as LOW as a nazi meaning that they are a disgrace to humanity. People who support dictators owning nukes are just that in my opinion. I really don't intend on changing that opinion any time soon.

anybody who opposes the Bush administration is suddenly a nazi

this is rediculous. No where did I say anything even remotely like that. This is way way beyond the Bush A. I hope that my opinion is clarified by now. If not, read the last few sentences below for a nice re-cap of my opinion. Bush has nothing to do with it.

You are the most repugnant person I have ever met

well that is your opinion. I dont mind you having that opinion.

Apology from me? Not a chance. I do not apologize for my stance on a dictator owning nuclear weapons.

I do not apologize for my stance against Hitler and by you asking me too is just another insult. I apologized to Gob for using harsh language...NOT FOR HAVING MY OPINION.

And that opinion is that Dictators should not have nuclear weapons and that people who support dictators owning nuclear weapons are as low as a Nazi/taliban/alqueda. I do not take lightly people who want to rush to nuclear war. And allowing dictators free reign to own all the nukes they want does exactly that. I would rather have Earthnuker not like me, than have to see a thousand mushroom clouds on the horizon.

I stand by this opinion.

I will not apologize for it.

[emprworm]

And edric, chernoble was a disaster but its radius was limited. It was a radiated area contained within a small radius. Bombing North KOrean power plants will create hazardous areas for many years. Note that this is a far better situation than having Seoul a hazardous area for many years minus 10 million people (minimum number). This is absolutely what must be done.

[Anathema]

France has nuclear weapons- missle range 7000 miles. They could hit Washington DC if they wanted to. I don't care. I'm not worried about France. Let them make all they want. The US does not protest France having a nuclear arsenal.

France is a "friend" of the US. Some time ago there was a leftist french president (don't know his name, it was in the sixties or so) who edicted that there should also be nukes pointed at the US, in case of war, instead of just against Russia. The US was pretty pissed. If a government that isn't pro US suddenly wants to have a nuke, the US would protest.

Japan has nukes. Cool. Don't bother me. The US is not "scared" about this!

They don't ::) Since they were enemies of the US during the war, the US forced them to sign a treaty that didn't allow them to have nukes, not then, not now and not in the future.

I never said its okay for NK to have nukes! Did anybody in this thread say so? But you started comparing board members to nazis. In doing so you don't just insult the person in question but also the millions of people that died because of Hitler!

NK shouldn't have nukes, then again, nobody should. Besides, they don't have them.

Pound them? As in, destroying a country? Installing a different regime is one thing, destroying a country is another.

This is absolutely what must be done.

The emperor has spoken!

[nampigai]

Germany doesn't have nukes either.

[emprworm]

here is my reasoning, in case you were wondering, since I am always one to explain my reasoning:

when I see hitler, i see a ruthless dictator. A murderer with absolute power over his regime.

When I see Kim Jong of north korea, i see a ruthless dictator. A murderer with absolute power over his regime. I freely substitue Hitler for Kim Jong. The two are interchangeable. Just because one doesn't have the same kill count as the other, is not a moral argument to say one is 'better' than the other.

When i see a nazi, i see a morally bereft person (not necessarily a murderer) with low regard for human life.

When I see a taliban, I see a morally bereft person with low regard for human life.

When I see an Alqueda, I see a morally bereft person with low regard for human life.

When I see a person tell me they dont care and/or defend Kim Jong, the dictator, freely making nuclear weapons as he pleases, I see a morally bereft person with low regard for human life.

When person tells me: Let Kim Jong have nukes, I substitute Hitler for Kim Jong. They are basically saying that they support Hitler having nukes. i see no difference whatsoever. A Democracy having limited nuclear weapons is acceptable (like France, UK, US, etc.) This is because there is no single person that has control over them. The nukes in France are not at the disposal of the mind of one person. Nukes in the hands of a dictator ARE. Dictators are by nature corrupted by power (lest they would not be a dictator). Putting nukes in their hands at the control of their whim is an intolerable situation for the human race. Therefore, to support and not be outraged that North korea will start mass producing nuclear weapons puts that person, in my opinion, at the same level as a despicable nazi. These same people that allow Kim Jong (i.e. Hitler) to obtain all the nukes he wants are ushering the world to nuclear holocaust.

I'll gladly take their criticism for my opinion in this matter.

[Anathema]

They don't have nukes.

Besides, nations like Kazachstan and Pakistan have nukes too, and they're not particulary democratic. Neither is China. Do you pound them too? ::)

Now, NK is a dictature and I don't want them having nukes, but then again I don't want a lot of nations to have nukes. Pounding in and detroying their power plants is not acceptable. You would radiate the air and ground of millions of innocent citicens and deprive them of electric power. Imagine the chaos.

And if you don't do anything about it, what will happen? Nothing.

When I see Kim Jong of north korea, i see a ruthless dictator.

I know he's a dictator, but I never read in any paper of massive massacres in Korea. Hitler was a lot worse.

You don't like dictators? Your goverment doesn't necessarlily detest them, as long as they wave the american flag every now and then. Like Batista.

[VigilVirus]

And edric, chernoble was a disaster but its radius was limited. It was a radiated area contained within a small radius. Bombing North KOrean power plants will create hazardous areas for many years. Note that this is a far better situation than having Seoul a hazardous area for many years minus 10 million people (minimum number). This is absolutely what must be done.

Lol, from this only I can say you don't know anything about that subject. Limited area? Lol. Hundreds of thousands of people died and more were crippled for life. The radiation spread all the way to Ukraine and Russia although in lesser amounts. And even still, all those places are contaminated, reactors just covered with a sarcophagus, not eliminated. And it will be contaminated for millions and billions of years unless someone cleans it up. You all know what the half-life of uranium is, right? ::)

Now imagine five or even ten Chernobyls?

[TMA_1]

It doesnt matter how bad the North Korean leader is, for all I care he could be satan himself. You dont go around bullying other nations that have a right to do as they please. All nations should have Sovergn rights. If you take these away you are just as bad as any dictator that has ever existed. Fuck, we made so many nulcear weapons and now are trying to clean up the mess WE made. We still have Nukes so why cant other nations? even if they are a "threat". It istheir right to do so. What if we were not the super power and other nations battered us into giving our nukes away? damn it america would not take it. You can see it all through history. Be careful, globalism is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[emprworm]

They don't have nukes

Precisely why immediate action is utterly necessary.

UN intelligence believes they have one nuclear weapon, and can make several over the next year given recent events. immediate action is required.

saying to do nothing and allowing mass proliferation of nuclear weapons by a dictator is precisely equal to you saying to do nothing and allow Hitler to do as he pleases. This is intolerable for the human race. I do not want to sit idly by and let Hitler do as he pleases with nulcear weapons.

Dark Assasin, where o where are you getting your information?

30 lives were lost during the accident or within a few months after it. Figures from the Ukraine Radiological Institute suggest that over 2,500 deaths were caused by the Chernobyl accident.

SOURCE: http://www.chernobyl.co.uk/

this is a reliable source.

You give North korea a choice. No one has to die. Fully dismantle your nuclear plants, or have them destroyed. Period. playing political games with dictators over nuclear weapons is futile. We must not delay! The longer we wait, the more nukes they will get. Doing nothing??!! That is the cause for more deaths in human history than any other action. Apathy will result in nuclear holocaust.

people who are apathetic towards a dictator obtaining nuclear weapons have a low view of human life and are a disgrace to humanity.

You guys just cant wait to see that mushroom cloud. It amazes me. it really does

Maybe one day, TMA, your dream of a nuclear holocaust will come true. continue to defend the dictators to get nuclear weapons so they can kill you and perhaps your dream will come true.

[Edric O]

Neither Japan, nor Germany, nor Australia have nukes.

Emprworm, you don't seem to know what the current balance of nuclear power is. Let me inform you.

At this time, there are only 7 (SEVEN) countries with nukes:

United States

Britain

France

Russia

China

India

Pakistan

Now that we have that sorted out, let me tell you that you don't know a damn thing about Chernobyl. It was a massive disaster. The wind blew the radioactive clouds north, towards Belarus. But even so, the radiation levels in Bucharest (which is a few hundred kilometers SOUTH-WEST of Chernobyl) went off the scale! I can only imagine what it was like in Belarus and Nothern Ukraine. The number of cancer patients skyrocketed in the following years, and it is STILL high. Chernobyl is a radioactive wasteland, and only insane or desperate people still live or work there.

Blowing up North Korean power plants would not only doom everyone in Seoul to a slow, painful death, but it could send fallout as far as Beijing!

Are you under the impression that nuclear power is just some funny toy that you can play with?? We should have NEVER discovered this satanic technology in the first place! YES, I'm calling it satanic, just as I would call anything that has the potential to wipe out all life on Earth!

You think a nuclear war would just throw us back in the stone age? HA! A nuclear war would bring about a greater mass extinction than the one that killed off the dinosaurs!!

There is no evil greater than that forged by our own hands...