# Emprworm's Riddle #17: Mess of Tokens

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[hide]well, either you or the player 1 metre behind you has a green ball on his back otherwise the furthest behind would be able to guess that he had a green ball on HIS back. So becuase of that you know that there is a 50% chance that if you guess a green sphere you will be correct so I think you should guess at a green sphere.

also there is a discrepancy, deliberate or not I dont know

first it says:

Player B is standing 1 meter behind you. And a third person, Player C is standing 2 meters behind you

then:

1 minute passes. Neither Player A nor Player B made a guess.

Presumably you are player A if the first statement is correct which would mean youve gone home poor. [/hide]

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[hide] Yeah I saw that too Apollo, perhaps Empr made a typo? ;) [/hide]

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yes, you are right. its should be B and C. thanks for pointing that out. i correct it.

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to apollyon

[hide]

there could be 3 green spheres, however. both player B and C could both have green spheres. you going to risk your head over a 50/50 guess?

[/hide]

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[hide]

Guess green sphere, because if you do then your chances are more than 50%, because there is no way of having 3 spikes

I mean - there is more chance of having a green then a spike since you can't have 3 of spikes, but you can have 3 of greens

[/hide]

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possible 3 combos in this set: G=green sphere B = ball of spikes

1. GGG

2. GGB

3. GBB

4. GBG

5. BGG

6. BGB

7. BBG

8. BBB

Player A is first column, B is second, you are third.

We KNOW that #8 isnt true, but any of the other 7 can be.

Out of those remaining 7, you have a BALL OF SPIKES 3 times.

you guys are all so funny risking your life over odds that are 4/7. Who in their right mind would risk their life over that?

and i'm offering no more help.

good luck

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[hide]

I think I got it

Since the last man in line did not answer then - you and the one behind you do not both have spikes or else he would have answered "Green sphere". There for it is either:

SG

GS

GG

You have 2/3 chance of guessing it right i you say Green sphere

Am I right?

[/hide]

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[hide]

Wait... there's a better answer

Continuing - you both do not have SS

the guy behind you didn't give an answer therefore you both do not have a Spike! Because if you did then he would say that he had green sphere and get it right!

Therefore it is 100% that you have green sphere!![/hide]

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[hide]Evil, C didn't say anything meaning there are either

SG

GS

or GG. And B didn't say anything so you can be G or S.

You can still have a spike and B would have no better of a guess. In other words, it doesn't matter what B sees, it doesn't help him. [/hide]

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[hide]

You are not following my logic. Since C didn't answer - there is no SS, leaving GS, SG and GG. B understands that and would have answered if you had an S - because that leaves him with a G - but if you have a G - it can be either GG - or GS - 50% - so he does not answer. Knowing that you can say for sure that you have a Green sphere.[/hide]

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[hide]Actually it couldn't be GG as C would have known he had a spike right?

Ah, nm there could be could be 3 non spikes.[/hide]

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[hide]

Gob, you can have GGG, just not SSS. It's in the rules[/hide]

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I think evil has it.

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I think evil has it.

Lol, I hope so, it took me a lot of effort to figure it out :)

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[hide]I think so too, just look at it this way:

8. BBB <- invalid

7. BBG <- if this was true C would answer

If either of these were true B would have answered.

5. BGG

6. BGB

Leaving you with these:

1. GGG

2. GGB

3. GBB

4. GBG

Where you, A, are always good.[/hide]

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Yep, just what I meant :)

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what if the emperor really is just that sadistic and made them all spikes so at least one person would die? :-

lol, but then that wouldn't happen b/c it would violate the rules and negate the whole idea of a 'riddle.' vig is right. errr, i think he is right. we won't really know for sure until he comes back and tells use whether or not it is right. 8)

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I'm pretty sure I'm right, I mean can't find anything with my answer that doesn't work :)

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SOLUTION TO THE FORGETFUL CARPENTER

Once again, the level of intelligence in these forum has demonstrated itself as being extremely high. Gob should be proud. This is a fabulous riddle, and it didn't take long for it to be solved. Vigilant Evil scores another point. Very nicely done. Impressive.

[hide]

When the emperor turns to ask you "What say thee about the picture on the back of your robe?"

You respond, with 100% certainty: "My robe has a green sphere."

HOW did you know this?

Consider this one crucial fact: There is at least one Green Sphere.

when the clock starts, The guy in the Back looks at the first two robes. What does he see? If he sees 2 Spikes, then he immediately yells out that he has a green sphere! Yet he does NOT say anything. Therefore, the guy in the back is looking at either 2 spheres, OR 1 sphere and 1 spike. Now, what does the guy in the middle see? First of all, he knows that if the guy behind him was looking at 2 spikes, then he would yell out. So the guy in the middle AlSO KNOWS that the guy in the back is looking at either 2 spheres or 1 sphere and 1 spike. If the guy in the middle sees a SPIKE on YOU, then he KNOWS that the guy behind him is seeing a spike and a sphere, meaning that he has the sphere! BUT HE SAYS NOTHING. This means that the guy in the middle is NOT seeing a spike on you. Therefore, he MUST be looking at a green sphere. Which just happens to be on your back. ;D

[/hide]

thanks to all who participated. good luck on the next one...

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Unfortunately, I already knew this riddle for some time. I know the answer, but I don't want to ruin it for everyone. :-X

Ah well, I'll wait for the next riddle. :)

Edit: Yaaay! The next riddle is coming! ;D

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Hehe, thanks, emprworm. Now, I am in the lead :)

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Ok edric, sit tight. in 30-40 minutes, I'm gonna have a doozy of a riddle up.

i want you to have a fair shot at it.

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i thought this was the spikes and spheres one, not the forgetful carpenter ???

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Err, there might be a problem... I'm not gonna be here in 30-40 minutes. But don't worry about me, Emprworm, I can always catch the next riddle. :)

Speaking of which, how many riddles are there in total?

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EMPRWORM'S RIDDLE #12

FED2k's Magic Number

I want you to all to try and imagine the smallest whole integer which is too large to be described in less than one hundred words. When I refer to describing a number in words, I mean a proper English construct which logically must refer to a specific finite integer.

Examples of this would be common mathematical language, such as

"Three raised to the fifty-sixth power plus seven."

Also acceptable would be more abstract descriptions which still describe unique integers, such as

"The number of molecules of water in the Atlantic Ocean."

Obviously this mystery number could be quite large, since with the flexibility of our naming convention for numbers we can describe huge numbers in a small space.

(E.g., "ten raised to the hundredth power" describes a truly imaginably large number and does it in just 6 words) There are other numbers which are smaller but require more words. For example, one thousand, four-hundred twenty-seven requires six words. The first integer which cannot be described in less than one hundred words is called FED2k's Magic Number

Now, someone is obviously pulling your leg. you know these guys at the FED2k forum always have something up their sleeve. You know full well that somethig is up!

Can you give a logical demonstration for the non-existence of this number?

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