neonext Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I think I will be making my Death Hands close to the original: destructive but very inaccurate. Regarding multiple palaces with Death Hands: I agree with VidiWare on this one. If someone has enough credits to burn on multiple palaces, then that person should be feared either way because he could have spent all the money on a big army of Devastators or something. This, unfortunately, only applies to multiplayer. In single player it would be hard to come up with an AI that could respond correctly to this kind of strategy, not to mention creating an AI that could manage to build multiple palaces and the windtraps needed for them and still have room to manuever his own units (plus all that money would be most likely better spent on tanks).I don't think anyone is planning on having seperate settings for multiplayer and singleplayer yet. The best and easiest solution I believe would be to balance according to your own will (your game should be unique, and is your creation after all), but leave options available for limiting the number of each type of structure that can be built.What are your guys' feelings on the number of gun turrets and rocket turrets that should be allowed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Regarding multiple palaces with Death Hands: I agree with VidiWare on this one. If someone has enough credits to burn on multiple palaces, then that person should be feared either way because he could have spent all the money on a big army of Devastators or something. This, unfortunately, only applies to multiplayer. In single player it would be hard to come up with an AI that could respond correctly to this kind of strategy, not to mention creating an AI that could manage to build multiple palaces and the windtraps needed for them and still have room to manuever his own units (plus all that money would be most likely better spent on tanks).I don't think anyone is planning on having seperate settings for multiplayer and singleplayer yet. The best and easiest solution I believe would be to balance according to your own will (your game should be unique, and is your creation after all), but leave options available for limiting the number of each type of structure that can be built.What are your guys' feelings on the number of gun turrets and rocket turrets that should be allowed?8 total or so, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonext Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I can also recommend keeping the extreme build time for turrets, and not letting them function at low power instead of enforcing a limit. That's a good idea, but the rockets on turrets are the only thing that's not supposed to function when there is low power. I definitally agree with you about the build times though.For single player/skirmish, have different AI types. One builds palaces and strong defenses, the other builds good combinations of units and attacks with them. They can complement each other.{in other words it's silly to combine Sonic Tanks with Infantry and/or Quads...the Sonics will kill the close-ranged units in no time. Sonics go with Sonics :P}I think this is a great idea. I will eventually use AI profiles (similar to Total Annihilation), that people can easily edit and come up with different types of AI's. They should be able to assign a particular profile to each AI player or put it on random. Even though defense is powerful, any player can easily break through - turrets have low hit points and can be easily killed by Launchers/Sonics. I'm mostly worried of a player who has AND tons of Rocket Turrets, AND a small but balanced mix of units that are continuously repaired and are used to keep away enemy long-range attackers, AND multiple Palaces. That way, your Launchers will never get close enough. Sonic Tanks get instantly killed by Devastators or Launchers, Launchers get killed by Quads or Trikes, and you get bombarded with 7 Death Hands every 8 minutes. Not a good thing.A great thing if it's a non-cheating AI player. I love getting beaten by the AI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Thinking of a human player with that last example - I don't know if that tactic can be beaten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Gilbear Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Regarding Turrets working at low power...I know only Rockets are meant to stop working under these conditions, but I reckon Cannons could be affected too. The Turret mechanisms need power to move and aim it, say. Voila! Now Cannon turrets are affected by low power conditions too.This would help to discourage players from relying too heavily on static defenses too...Different AI types would be really neat; I have never seen this successfully done though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Regarding Turrets working at low power...I know only Rockets are meant to stop working under these conditions, but I reckon Cannons could be affected too. The Turret mechanisms need power to move and aim it, say. Voila! Now Cannon turrets are affected by low power conditions too.This would help to discourage players from relying too heavily on static defenses too...Different AI types would be really neat; I have never seen this successfully done though.Warcraft II, StarCraft, Total Annihilation...all those games support different AI types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Gilbear Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 !?!? Must admit I heave never noticed! Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 !?!? Must admit I heave never noticed! Sorry.In Warcraft/Starcraft you set them on the map editor (naval, defensive, builder, etc.), in Total Annihilation the game decides which AI to use based on the map (though this system isn't perfect; the AI may decide to manufacture land units on island maps with a high % of land.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanhendriks Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Well, even these AI's are not superb. Oh well, nothing to complain about yet until i can do better ;)Btw, maybe a nice addition is when you are on low power you could turn on emergancy generators? So turrets do something, but at a lot lower rate. They turn very slow, shoot very slow. but still they are better then no defense at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teg Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Have battery backups in turrets, which charge up while there is power to spare, and discharge when power is lost, providing the turret with power for a short time, so you have a chance to restore power supply.It would also be good to be able to prioritise power supply, so in a low power emergency, you can keep your command post and turrets powered, but power down non essentials, such as reffineries and factories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Have battery backups in turrets, which charge up while there is power to spare, and discharge when power is lost, providing the turret with power for a short time, so you have a chance to restore power supply.It would also be good to be able to prioritise power supply, so in a low power emergency, you can keep your command post and turrets powered, but power down non essentials, such as reffineries and factories.Don't make the game too complicated! It's supposed to be somewhat like Dune II... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teg Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 The Complicateder the betterer. Dune is meant to be a rich and complex universe.The turret battery backups wouldn't add any complexity to the play.The power prioritisation would allow more complex management, but not require it, could be handled automatically or just ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Dune being a rich universe doesn't have much to do with a REMAKE of the most simple strategy game ever. The less bells & whistles, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonext Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 i'm with Will on this one, and that's how power will be in my remake. very simple, if you don't have enough power then most of your buildings (depending on what type they are, i don't think silos need power) will either work at half the rate or not work at all. With my first remake I had intended on giving the player the ability to turn off certain structures during critical power-loss times, but I think that sticking to the original Dune 2 formula will be best.Just as an example, let's say I'm playing against someone in multiplayer and he leaves his windtraps unguarded on the left side. I like the idea that if I come in with a force and flank the left side and take out a power plant or two, I will be sure he will lose power, allowing me to overrun the high number of rocket turrets guarding his construction yard. Not only does this allow me to take out his defences, but he will be slower to rebuild units with low power which allows me to finish the job.IMO, making all these special power rules just breaks the formula, and completely changes the strategy of the game. Of course, it's up to creator of the remake to decide, but I know I want my remake to be just like Dune 2 (except it will be what's missing from Dune 2: skirmish and multiplayer modes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanhendriks Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 maybe there should be a button on the sidebar to enable 'power optimization'. So, lets say you are under attack and you are on low power. Hitting this button will scan all your buildings, turn off power on those who don't need it (like not defensive turrets, but factories should remain power, etc). And this system should also do priorities like:- try to shut down all refineries- still not enough power? shut down radar?- still not enough power? shut down factoriesetc.(this was a very simplified version of a 'priority' scheme). Ofcourse, when there is way to get power, the system should not get enabled and give you a warning that you cannot optimize power usage.This way even low power can be very strategitive. Why? When your opponent has low power you're still not sure he will use the optimization or not. Anyway, this is just a wild idea, but doable. (and easy in coding aswell btw) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonext Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 ...This way even low power can be very strategitive. Why? When your opponent has low power you're still not sure he will use the optimization or not. Hmm good idea, but if it is so automated like that, why wouldn't he use the optimization? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vidiware Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Well..If you have 2 choices:Defencive sysem: with this priority of power:Turrets RadarsMilitary Structuresetc.And Building system:RefineryConstruction yard...Higher level buildingsMilitary Structures...This way the preson can choose to counter attackor use all power to defend the buildings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teg Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Dune being a rich universe doesn't have much to do with a REMAKE of the most simple strategy game ever. The less bells & whistles, the better.Why remake the game, if not to make it better? If all you wan't is an updated dune 2, you've already got Dune 2000.How about an "Alert" mechanism, which preps your base for a big attack:- Set power prioritisation to defensive.- Withdraw non-military units. Dock harvesters into their refineries until the alert is over. Ground carryalls away from danger, so they don't get takenout by enemy rockets. Option to allow caryalls to liftoff to withdraw damaged units for repair.- Prioritise auto repair to military and defensive military units and structures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vidiware Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Well..The remakes are made to make a more fun dune2k game!!!It makes multiplayer support + other enchantments...And dune2k are not dune2 its a differnt game!I dont know why they called it Dune2000 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyborg Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Option to allow caryalls to liftoff to withdraw damaged units for repair.This was a feature in Dune2. It actually pissed me off sometimes because the carryall picked up my tanks when they were on half their life... Imagine loosing half your attack when assaulting a base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonext Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 how about a button to order units to head back to the repair center (and of course request carryall pickup if there is one available)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Option to allow caryalls to liftoff to withdraw damaged units for repair.This was a feature in Dune2. It actually pissed me off sometimes because the carryall picked up my tanks when they were on half their life... Imagine loosing half your attack when assaulting a base.O_O you assaulted a base with 2 tanks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vidiware Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 no...but half of his men returned for repair... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefanhendriks Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 i know what he means, i sometimes had some launchers left, but they where damaged. However, they could take out a base due i blasted the defense. The stupid carryalls would always get the launchers out of there, while i did not want them to repair. Very annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonext Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 um is TonyD around anywhere?we've been discussing things in his thread for awhile now, and not one single post has been made by him lately.Stefan, i'm working on carryalls now, and it's really cool how you got them to work in so many different ways. do you know how far TonyD is on carryalls compared to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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