Major_Gilbear

Well, being an air unit does make it immune to most weapons fire, and if you don't have to reload, that makes it pretty good. If kiroves had enough ammo to fire twice before thay had to return, nobody would build them, despite the great armour and the overpowered damage of its bombs. Similarly, if the Kirov was a ground unit, if could be attacked by just about everything in the game, so the threat would again be lessened. Also, I appreciate your comments on scouting but I should point out that later in the game it can be very difficult to scout inside a base to see what/where all the buildings are. That's why flyers are useful; fly one over an enemy base, and you have your info - even if you lose the flier, it's reasonable value for the knowledge gained. On another note, I meant to mention upgrading. Upgrading cannot work like it did in Dune2, because although the TS upgrade logic survives in RA2, it is hardcoded in terms of what you can "attach" to an upgrade. The important bit for this mod is that an upgrade cannot act as a prerequisite. That means that I cannot upgrade a WF and gain access to new vehicles for example. I was hoping to keep upgrading in the game though, but by having upgrades for Windtraps, Turrets etc instead. The called-in Ornithopters could quite easily be an upgrade to the Outpost (requiring the HTF as a prerequisite).

Yeah, that was the sort of balancing I had in mind... I wanted to allow them to be sent into unexplored areas too, but then I think that should remain the preserve of Trikes/Quads, so maybe not. As for units announcing when they are created, it does get a bit annoying! Plus, I use the Kirov example as the 'Kirov Rush' is usually late game, and even if it is announced, it is nearly impossible to stop. You see, cost-for-cost the Kirovs can take waaay more damage that is fair, and thus even if they are slow, are hard to shoot down. Now, as this is late game, there will be ground troops to distract the AA units like the IFVs, and the Kirovs will usually have a fairly clear run until they get about halfway anyway. I'm not saying this is an unstoppable tactic in every situation, but it is seriously hard to counter without heavy losses. Tactics like the Kirov Rush as as hated as Grand Cannon Spamming or playing against Yuri...

Rocketeers are a pretty good parallel - thanks. :) As for amassing any flying units, that is true. But I do remind you that it has always been difficult to make true fliers useful without being overpowering in CnC/Dune games. In RA1, MiGs were blatantly overpowered, and in RA2 massing Kirovs was fairly unstoppable in the long-game. By the same token, The Dune2 Ornithopters, the RA1 Yaks and the Orca craft in TS were expensive and not very useful. I agree that there is a reasonable amount of AA available early on, but it comes down to a base defence and two units - one of which is infantry. In Dune2 there a unit cap, and so most of the time infantry was dropped in favour of siege tanks and rocket tanks. I'd like the Ornis to be more useful than just being scouts or relegated to hunting harvesters/stragglers. I would like to make all units useful at all levels wherever possible, and there also won't be a unit cap anymore. This means that there is potentially a lot more AA to shoot down Ornis, and as a result I think that they can be beefed up a bit. I am still undecided as to their armament. HE rockets as Dune2, or MGS, AP rockets, cannons, lasers, bombs...? Again I had considered differing armaments based on house and on whether they were called in from off-screen or player-built.

Ah, but you're fogetting one important detail: control. Because players will have control over Kirov-like units, Ornithopters would be far too powerful if players started to mass them, especially considering the very limited AA in the game. Remember that in Dune2, players were unlikely to have more than three ornis in play at any one time, and that as they couldn't be controlled, they got shot down fairly fast without acheiving much. That resulted in most players not building them (right?). To make it fairer, you could have the Ornithopters dock with a building to recharge, and that would also limit their numbers. To do that, Harrier logic/behaviour is better suited. The use of them as a SW was a nod to it's successor, Dune2000, and I wasn't really sure if ppl would prefer that to controllable Ornis. Afterall, having them called in from off-screen is the only suitable way that they can be directed without being player-controlled, and again they are limited in power. Funnily enough, even though some of the old helicopter/helipad logic was removed/hacked to make the Harriers in RA2, the twitching of air units can be easily re-enabled through the use of the tag "CurlyShuffle=yes"... That tag seems to have survived from TS intact.

@ VidiWare: Thanks for the offer of hosting space ;). As for the Ornis being both regular and SW, it could be done. The regular Ornis could have MGS or Rockets, and the SW ornis could have bombs (for example). I do want to keep it Dune2 tho, and the Fremen will be controllable in the mod (so more useful/powerful). Still, I think that as a SW it'd not be overpowered. Ordos Saboteur would be like the Dune2 one, except that he would be able to disguise (more useful that way). Probably give them a build limit of two as well, partly as that is how it was in Dune2, and partly because they can be very powerful if massed... @ Nema Fakei: That sort of logic can be attached to buildings that are 1x1 cells in size, as well as units that are classed as vehicles. The planes are not controllable, and their range is limited. Therefore, unless it is to be some sort of base defence or similar, I dobt it'd be that useful. I mean, if I set the range to cover the screen, it would just be sending wave after wave of free Ornis at the enemy; if I set the range shorter it might not reach the enemy's base at all!

@ MCV: I think that feature was removed in RA2. That is to say, you can have planes like Harriers but if they are not airport bound, they cannot be ordered to redock with the airpad. I think several mods have tried to solve this, but none have done so yet (to my knowledge). This means that if they are to reload at a building, then they need to be like RA2 Harriers. @ VidiWare & Nema Fakei: Hmm, I do agree that it is a bit plain/bright, but that is the problem with this strip of colours in the palette; they are always too bright and that hides detail. I can certainly add camo, but that isn't how the launcher was either in the pix or ingame. Similarly I can make the launcher grey, but I'm concerned that it would be both too dark and also not look unified - like the Rocket pods are not part of the vehicle? I'll have a go though and show you what it looks like. @ VidWare: You want me to add parabombs and paratroopers? Or do mean that having the Ornis called in from off-screen would be okay? I have struggled a bit about what to do with Ornis. I think that as Harriers they would work, but that as SuperWeapons they would as well. Since both Ordos and Atreides had them, I thought about either giving them different types, or giving everybody the same type and Atreides an extra one. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BTW, what's the limit for uploading to a post? I have a 1.5mb animation of the rocket launcher so that you can see all the detail, but I can't upload it... Somebody's gonna tell me it is half a mb now, right? ::)

Well, I have been busy working on things that are either not working how I want, or that aren't really something I can show off in a screenie (yet). Still, I thought I'd show you another unit in the meantime; the Rocket Tank. I'm not really very happy with this unit, and I'm not quite sure why. I have remade it four times already, but it still doesn't look quite right to me. Anyway, see what you guys think...

If the rocket dies, the mond-control is broken. Plus, the I doubt the victim would be controllable if mind-controlled by a rocket (assuming a rocket can be coded like that). If the rocket spawns a "Terror Drone" as it dies so that control of the enemy is possible, there is also the problem of destroying a unit with a mind-controlling Terror Drone; it emerges when the unit is destroyed. I think as far as the Deviator goes, that'd be a bit weird...

Hmm, mind-controlling Terror Drones would be possible I think, yes. But to have Terror Drones fired from another unit, no. Besides, apart from the big rockets (like the V3, Dread Missiles, etc), I understand that rockets are considered by the engine as being neutral. That means that anything spawned by them would not be player-controllable. Similar problems arise with the infection/Brute conversion logic - only the YR Mutator has that conversion logic keyed to convert to the owning side; emulating that logic on anything else though results in the creation of ownerless units. And the big rockets result in the same as above, it is just that the game knows they are a special case for the purposes of having AA firing at them and for having correct remap on them.

Well, the third Trike's guns are both meant to suit the large pictures and look more like MGs than light cannon too. Also, I can make barrels either 1x1 (like Trike 3) or 2x2 (like Trikes 1 and 2) in cross section. I do know what you mean though, and I may have (yet) another go at them. The Raider will probably have a different gun configuration anyway, though I suppose I could use the armoured cockpit version to represent it... I take your points regarding Starports, but I wondered if by letting Houses acquire units that they otherwise wouldn't be allowed, it would defeat the point of having the limitations on the Houses to begin with? Afterall, in Dune2 it made sense firstly because in missions Starports were only available later on and secondly because there was a limit on how much you could buy from the Starport at any one time. Since in this mod Starports will not have the old "random purchasing price" function (not supported by RA2), they will only act as a prerequisite. As Starports are available early on in the tech-tree, it also makes these units easy to get hold of early on too. Ordos Deviators will not deviate as they did in Dune2, again because RA2 won't support it. Either I can have them permanently control enemy units or have them cause enemies to go berserk and fire on their own units randomly (which you wouldn't be able to control and would last only a set time). This means that Deviators will always Deviate enemies in a favourable way and not give an advantage to a third House by accident! Personally I favour having it make enemies go berserk. This is like the Chaos Lightning in EBFD and also to me seems more realistic than mind-controlled units...

Quick update: Whilst working on the next unit, I had yet another quick idea for the Trike. I've added a new model of the Trike (Trike #3) to the comparisons, and you can see it below. Better than #1 or #2, or not?

Thanks :) Each House will have a different Scheme, so yes, Ordos Raiders will be in the colours shown in the larger images. That specific camo pattern always reminded me of WW2 British Caunter, used in the first half of the North African campaign... Will do, especially if ppl ask questions/make suggestions here; I do want to use features available in RA2, but I also want ppl to enjoy it like the original Dune2!! ;) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- BTW, something else that your comments on the Tikes have reminded me of is the issue of non-House units. That is to say, in Dune2, Ordos for example could only build Raiders. With the building of a Starport though, normal Trikes could then be bought - usually cheaper than Raiders too, even if they weren't quite the same. What I wanted advice on is whether the Starports should still allow access to such units (ie, Ordos would have access to both Raiders and Trikes for example), or should they still only be allowed what would normally be buildable (ie, Ordos can get cheaper Raiders via Starport, but no normal Trikes)? Secondly, if a House captures a foreign House's Warfactory (or Conyard etc), should they be allowed to build their units? And if so, should those units be in the original House's colours or the new House's? For example, Ordos capture a Harkonnen Warfactory. Should they be allowed to build Missile Tanks and Devastators? And if so, should those tanks be in an Ordos colour scheme, or in Harkonnen colours? Your thoughts would definately be appreciated on this!

Flags eh? Hmm, not a bad idea that... I may just release two MIX files afterall! ;)

Hehe, yeah I can, but that still doesn't solve this: Otherwise, I wouldn't have even suggested it as a choice. Of course, I could have had green units with some areas of remap for Ordos, red units with some areas remap for Harkonnen, etc. But the colours available for this in the voxel palette are really sucky... :(

Thanks :). It wasn't meant to be GDI-ish, but now you mention it, it does a bit doesn't it? Hmm. So far I have: Glass Canopy = Nema Fakei, Mr Flibble(?) Armoured Canopy = Caid Ivik This is still undecided as far as I'm concerned, and I will refrain making a choice until others have said something, or had more to to at any rate. Hehe, you kinda tipped my hand with this one, as I had intended to make the Ordos Raider Twin-gunned! This is to further differentiate it from the ordinary Trike. Otherwise players might assume it was the same vehicle but with a different camo pattern... Still, the Ordos Trike could have heavier/lighter/different guns modelled on it if everyone else thinks that the regular Trike should have two guns?