Ace is the Man

[undsputed]

Hey Taqwa, I bet your son could take on Navaros now =) If he were to use an inkvine, we'd never hear the end of it from Nav.

That was nice of you Ace, a lot of people get impatient about such things.

[rogue1896]

god, i should just butt out of this conversation here, eh? sorry, i'm out :-[ i talk too much...if anyone needs me i'll be in the corner of my room, huddled up, crying to myself.

[SurlyPIG]

Hehe, Taq, it was my pleasure. Your son's a nice little guy, it was fun showing him the harkonnen ropes (or at least the ropes I've climbed). At this stage in the game, there are and should be no secrets. I'll share everything I told him...

I asked him what house he wanted to learn, he said hark, so I picked a hark vs hark game to show him the core of harkonnen strategy. First, I gave him a basic build order for harkonnen on 10k. Next, I told him that to beat almost any hark player (I've yet to play a hark that's beaten me by using something different than what I explained), you'd need only three units; the buzzsaw, the light infantry, and the sardaukar. Those three have won me oodles of games. But, as any experienced hark player will tell you, it's more important how you use them. The extremely helpful but seemingly obvious secret that Taqwa was referring to is {drumroll}: attack move.

That's right. Unless you're dealing with long-range units, the attack move approach is the only way to go. Basically, you have your standard battle set-up. Your units are arranged in a line facing your opponents line. I had Taq's son do some demonstrations with me so he could see how effective it is. We took equal numbers of our untis (all of them inf, saws, and sards) and had battles with them.

First, I told him how most harkonnen players use their units. They'd move them in range of the enemy units, run over a few infantry, then stop and pick off individual targets. I, using a slightly larger force, did this to one of his inert defensive lines and still lost the battle, because circumstance favours the defender.

We did the same thing again, lined up our forces and squared off. This time, he attacked. I told him to select his force, hold ctrl and shift, then click on the area behind my units. This makes the units use attack move. He, again, had a slightly smaller force, but he won that battle to, demonstrating the usefulness of the command. As soon as an enemy unit is in range, they fire at that unit. The benefits of this strategy are enourmous. First, it makes it so that the units will find their own targets. You don't have to worry about micromanaging groups of them. Second, it makes it so that your units are already facing the direction they'll be firing in. This is crucial because harkonnen units have a very slow rate of turn, and can't spin quickly enough to counter the attacker. Third, this makes it so that your units will always have the first hit advantage. Fourth, it minimizes the amount of time a travelling unit can be in enemy fire.

The reason I chose to demonstrate this in a hark vs hark game, is because it is the paramount strategy to use when harks battle each other. Doing this with minos wouldn't work because the guardrange is the same for all units. It works best with the early game units.

For example, good times to use it would be when you have the combo of chems and dusts, or saws and light inf, or bikes and light inf. When you deal with kobras, minos, and lasers, it gets a bit more complex but it's manageable.

If I was ordos playing an ordos that has kobras, I'd use this for my chems and dusts but I'd control the lasers seperately, individually targetting kobras or other lasers. This way, the dusts and chems are doing as much damage as possible, while drawing lots of fire so the lasers can destroy heavy targets. If I were a hark player playing an atreides who had minos, bikes, and inf, I'd move in with assault tanks on the minos first, targeting the minos individually. But as soon as the assault tanks approached, I'd use the attack move behind his units with my saws and infantry.

Nav, I think I actually tought you this "ghetto trick" long ago. I demonstrated how a small group of fremen warriors could take out a much larger and much more expensive group of unmoving sardaukar.

Anway, after that battle I taught him the proper way to attack a base. Most people will build low level turrets out of desparation or as a hold-off tactic. I built a flame turret, and told him to use his sards to kill it. Sards have a slightly longer range than low level turrets. Also, I told him basic pointers like keeping your infantry away from the front side of enemy refineries to avoid getting squished by harvs, use the saws and inf to kill enemy units while using the sards to destroy buildings, etc.

Anyway, thats it! Believe it or not, but thats literally every single thing I know about playing other harks...I cant think of anything I've missed. And it works quite well, I think, a few here could attest to that. I've used it against the likes of fuzion, marcel, undsputed, biorock, etc.

Taq, tell your son to give me a page if he ever has troube with good atreides turtlers or those pesky ordos rushers...

[Oper90]

It's good to finally read that a "elite" player like Ace take time to teach and help a player. There's too many players that talk down to players just starting out or they need help with their games.

Good Show, Ace! ;D

[Fuzi0n]

And it works quite well, I think, a few here could attest to that. I've used it against the likes of fuzion, marcel, undsputed, biorock, etc.

Taq, tell your son to give me a page if he ever has troube with good atreides turtlers or those pesky ordos rushers...

U played against me? Do u know when that was?

Cuz I always wanted to play you, but never got matched up with u..

[Marcel71]

hehe, i was beaten by Ace, my honour ;D

Well, long time ago when i was a n00b and did not know many people in emperor (i think on the old WW boards) i asked how to do a forced attack move...

Some people said u don't need it, some people (like ace and cerb) said it was important. I myself figured that out too that it was important. Actually i was 2 days ago discussing it with fuzion on msn.

What happends when u select a bunch of units and select an enemy target (exmpl an opponent buzz): "OVER KILL". Like 5 buzz and 3 aa units fire at the same buzz, those 5 buzz would have killed the buzz already, but anyway 3 aa missles will hit "nothing". Those three aa missles could have done server damage to another buzz. And sometimes you just need the slightest advantage to win.. So with the shft ctrl move your attacking will be better spread.

And when u are winning, don't go do stupid things like attack a base with 10 buzz. Use those 10 buzz to protect other units who (for example) drain his economy.

But remember. The ctrl-shift also starts shooting at Harvesters!! So a good player might put his harvester in the fight. You units will start shooting at the harvester, and his units will kill yours ;)

[Fuzi0n]

Exactly and thats when it comes to extensive microing.

[Anathema]

Hey attack move sounds usefull. Any other special move commands? I already know move in formation.

But what would happen if you let your minos do attack move?

[Marcel71]

Mino's with attack move does not work so good i think.

The best is let them stand still. But then i am not an atr player ;)

[Anathema]

Yeah but...defending is so boring :-

[IxianMace]

Defending boring? I've had lots of Harkonnen players rush me with Buzzsaws because they see the entrance of my ramp only has light infantry guarding it. What they don't see however, is what is behind the infantry further up in my base. They rush their Buzzsaws up my ramp, thinking that they will secure my base until reinforcements arrive by blocking my factory and barracks, but before their Buzzsaws can reach the top of the ramp, BOOM!! They are pulverized by my Kindjal Infantry. :D ;D It's been very entertaining watching 5-10 Buzzsaws get pulverized by a few lines of Kindjal when the Buzzsaws almost manage to run over my Kindjal but die just before they reach them. ;D

[VigilVirus]

Yeah, that's one of the most annoying things ever >:(

[Marcel71]

Yeah but...defending is so boring :-

hehe, if you don't want to be boring, don't play atreides ;)

*waiting to get flamed*

[Anathema]

Yeah I think I'm going to play Hark from now on- I just formatted my computer and got everything to work again.

[rogue1896]

i think i'll stick to ordos, i am actually pretty good with hark. and btw, in my opinion, most ppl really don't see the value in large quantities of hark light infantry. if you can get a good amount of guys on a rock and maybe a few rocket guys you can do some serious damage to enemy forces, that is, considering they do not have a flame tank or catapult. most ppl just see em as a bunch of guys tho and start building buss saws b/c they thing they'd crush the guys.

and on the note of an elite player helping a novice, i just wanted to thank the person that taught me every trick and every strategy i know. I still can't understand why ppl hate em. it's pro (procyonb). he's taught me everything i know from the bo, to where to position my troops, to what troops to build for what circumstance. i've learned a lot from him from my, what, almost a year of playing with him. he's one of the best emperor players i know of. as far as i know, he's also trained trac (tracxm) and probably a few other members of FEW. but pro was training me b4 he even created FEW. back in september. not sure what year, its been a while, but it wsa the year it came out. i have also learned small little ideas from various other ppl, but pro was the one person who was like a mentor to me. tnx

[rogue1896]

*sob :'( sob*

touching, ain't it?

[Anathema]

Sob :'(

[rogue1896]

lol, trying to raise your post count? you just said "I know ;)" on a few topics. hehe. but then again, thats basically what i do when i post my pointless dribble. i'll be in my corner.

[Omniviper]

i think acelethal is one of the best examples of what kind of players we should have. Good Job Ace :)

[guusr5644]

you guys just never know what i meant but dont worry i stoped... (btw you supose to say something after i say it)

[nampigai]

yes I've read you post allready GoldEagle, it's called spam

[atrd3m0n]

hmmmmm (copy, paste, copy, paste...) ;D

lol untill a few days ago me too didnt know that ctrl-shift thing. i only used shift-alt and J ..

[atrd3m0n]

Yeah but...defending is so boring :-

hehe, if you don't want to be boring, don't play atreides ;)

*waiting to get flamed*

flame flame flame $#@#$%$@#$@!% %^%^@#%$@#$$!1 ;D

[CERBERUS]

yeah thats nice to see ace..i was never one to play much skirmish. when i played it was strictly QM buisness and clan now and again.

Nice to see u posting little tactics emprworm but at the end of the day where r people gonna use these new found tricks? QM and clan r more dead than ever..and its only gonna get worse each month like it always has.

At this stage in the game, there are and should be no secrets.

heh ace knows the score..if nothing is worth hiding no more what does that say about the game now and the competition?

[undsputed]

Well Cerb, I usually don't do clans but I prefer team games. There are times when I screw up and my partner helps and times when just the opposite occurs. I seem to like skirmish games the most.

I gotta look for you online Ace. I haven't played you too much though we both been around long.

And you Taq, I have never seen =) Do you have the same online name? I think we are opposites in playing times.