The discovery of heaven

[Terror]

ofcourse, the Islamic god is the same god as ours, and still we wage war :- Religion has consumed many people

[Caid Ivik]

And this wrote Terror... ;D

[quoudam72]

I meant that he doesn't tell wich religion is right...the islam could also be correct, since they also have Mozes in it I suppose.

Yes, Moses is in Islam (of course he would be) but his name is Musa in the Arabic tongue. I see you have been studying Acriku but I thought you already knew about Jesus (Pharisaic Judaism) being that you are Jewish (faith/ethnic background). You know all three religions (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) all share the same roots.

[Edric O]

Interesting article, Acriku. Let's see:

What's implied is that Jesus belongs to Judaism, not to Christianity. Jesus was a Jew. [...] They thought that Jesus was teaching another religion. No, he wasn't. He was teaching Judaism.

Yes, of course! I thought everyone realized this. Jesus was not teaching a new religion, He was "upgrading" Judaism. He was the Messiah and He brought the New Law, but this is all very firmly anchored in the old one.

"Christianity" is just the name we use for "New Judaism". Many jewish people did not see Jesus as the Messiah and remained at the "old" Judaism.

After all, Acriku, if your Messiah came today, this would be the exact thing that would happen: some jews would recognize Him as such, others would not.

[Terror]

And this wrote Terror... ;D

? :) what? can't i say anything serious anymore? :)

[DukeLeto]

Yay! Another religion thread!! ::)

I think you all know my stance.

[exatreide]

if you have no stance dont post in it.

Any one read Dark as day by charles shefield?

its really good.

[Acriku]

Edric, Jesus wasn't upgrading anything, he was preaching the same things other Rabbi's preached. So why was he regarded as a Messiah? It is theorized that he learned ancient healing ways of the Egyptians and used it, making people think he did a miracle. (Oh look Marge I done did it)

Pointy, I haven't really had the education of a normal Jewish guy, nothing in depth just basics.

[Anathema]

Anyway, the book changes mood throughout the story. In the beginning it's a lot about the Dutch society in the time of the sixties, like the anti-american students and stuff, and two of the main characters, Onno and Max, are becoming friends and the general mood is happy. The book becomes more tragic gradually.

[quoudam72]

[quote author=Acriku

[Edric O]

Ancient Egyptian healing ways don't bring people back from the dead, Acriku. They also don't help you to walk on water, to multiply food items, etc. Jesus did much more than healing. And also, the healing itself was rather... fast.

If you go on about how the Gospels can't be trusted to record the exact events, then please tell me what other sources you can possibly have.

Since the NT is our ONLY source, there are only two logical stands you can have: Either those events happened exactly as the NT says, or the proof is insufficient, and thus we can disregard the NT completely. There is no middle ground.

I'd be really curious to hear about other Rabbis that preached the same things as Jesus, at the same time (or within a reasonably similar time frame). I never heard of any.

And one of the main reasons why Jesus is considered the Messiah is that He rose from the dead, and He said it Himself that He was the Messiah.

[pointybum]

[quote author=Acriku

[quoudam72]

Only because we have (had) the same avatar and that Acriku didn't see it was me and not you. 8) :-X

[Acriku]

Oh ok, my bad Quon and Pointy ;)

And Edric, you don't seriously take everything seriously? Surely you can realize exaggerations, also how did the people know that someone was dead? The ancient healing could have brought the person from a stasis of coma perhaps? Hard to say, seeing how far back it is. Pure speculation if you ask me, for both sides of the argument. But there is so much lacking on Jesus's "miracles" that they are merely hearsay that became widespread.

But I'll stop this ... before you know what.

[exatreide]

Well messighs have rose and fell through out the centuries.

Surely they will be more..I just hope count chocola is not on of them.

as you know. i am guru on the ottoman empire....speaking of gurus..

"everthing is the process of creation and distruction"

wrote the great mystic bedreddin. There is no here after, everthing is in a single moment. He abbanoned a prsphers carrear in the otheradox islam to plange into the esosteric tummett of the border lands, whare he became a great guru. Championing the wild freedom of the frontire society and convincing many people,christans among them the he was the mahdi, the coming of the end of the world. So that the Ottomans who had grown imperial hanged him from a tree in the Serres in 1416.

[TMA_1]

the problem is you guys are arguing over variables. One person KNOWS he is right and another feels the same way. You cant c onvice eachother! sheesh.lol

[VigilVirus]

Sometimes an argument is not about convincing, its about, well, arguing ;D

[TMA_1]

exactly.lol

[Edric O]

And Edric, you don't seriously take everything seriously?

Of course I do! How else could I be a Christian?

Surely you can realize exaggerations, also how did the people know that someone was dead? The ancient healing could have brought the person from a stasis of coma perhaps?

You have absolutely ZERO facts to base that opinion on. You are simply making a baseless assumption, because you consider miracles to be "unlikely". That can be debated...

But you're right, let's not start one of those debates... :)