how racism really started

[The_Sadukar]

the romans weren't raceist (as far as I know), in fact the were the most tolerant people at their time

[Repoman]

Racism is stupid, easy.

We are all exactly the same bar superficial difference. AS the world becomes more intelligent racism will die out.

The problem with world is that we see each other as different races whereas we should see each other as humans.

[pointybum]

the romans weren't raceist (as far as I know), in fact the were the most tolerant people at their time

Mmm.. Tricky one. Not one civilisation organised roads, cities, and a hierchial structure better than the romans. Look at the physical evidence all over the world. Perfect structures, perfect roads, and a written legacy that's as fresh as today. Do you honestly think these would have been done without aggression?

How did the eqyptians build the pyramids? Some say slavery, others say organisation and worship. Well, somebody had to do the dirty work - seeing the sheer scale of it I cannot imagine that worship alone got those buildings up. This applies to the the Roman infractstructures, who eventually took over the egyptians.

For love or money, it's a fowl taste but it had to start somewhere - it was here I think it genuinely matured to what we today call racism.

Blame the Romans.

[babyface]

Blame the english ;D

[The_Sadukar]

I didn't say that the romans weren't agressive, I just said that the weren't raceists, there is no link between agression and raceismen, and there is no link between roman slavery and raceismen

[pointybum]

I didn't say that the romans weren't agressive, I just said that the weren't raceists, there is no link between agression and raceismen, and there is no link between roman slavery and raceismen

then my fellow friend, perhaps you can elaborate on your comment.

:)

[quoudam72]

How did the eqyptians build the pyramids? Some say slavery, others say organisation and worship. Well, somebody had to do the dirty work - seeing the sheer scale of it I cannot imagine that worship alone got those buildings up. This applies to the the Roman infractstructures, who eventually took over the egyptians.

I agree it would have to be slavery because if it were not then Pharoah would not have had a problem with the Isrealites leaving Egypt. It would have been viewed as some type of labor dispute and a union walkout. Racism is ignorance of others culture and heritage and not enough respect and/or understanding of the differences among mankind.

Different cultures advance easier/faster than other cultures due to the environment in which it is being developed. What I mean is that the enivornment that a culture is surrounded (mountains, desert, ocean island) by can determine the technological advancements a culture can make. Let's take Africa for an example. Africa is a harsh land and in manys ways underdeveloped but their are factors that determine this like jungle, deserts and mountains. Traveling has always been a dangerous job on a contient like Africa (South America and parts of Asia would be included) example the wheel is an invention of a genius but it can not be used to it full extent in the mountain ranges or heavy jungle. Europe on the other hand can be traveled almost by foot from west to east without any problem.

A racist would never look at such factors only the fact the his race is better than another race based on things that are usually physical and social prejudices.

[Anathema]

pointybum, you must keep in mind the Romans had also white slaves. If someone were to have a lot of debts, he would be forced to become a slave. Any slave could buy his liberty if he got enough money (of course there's the question where to get money).

[pointybum]

pointybum, you must keep in mind the Romans had also white slaves. If someone were to have a lot of debts, he would be forced to become a slave. Any slave could buy his liberty if he got enough money (of course there's the question where to get money).

that is true, but as a whole??

[Anathema]

I don't know. I wasn't there. But I don't recall reading anything about any black Roman emperor, so I suppose they were more or less racist.

[pointybum]

you werent there? oh man!

[Anathema]

You weren't either- it was 500 years before you were born :P.

[pointybum]

in my minds eye I can be anywhere ;)

[quoudam72]

::) Ok back on topic. Racism was thought to have developed in the world society only from the 19th c.A.D. Apartheid in the history of the world occurs in the Vedas, this racism is Advaita philosophy which was developed in India in 9th c.A.D. Another face of racism is casteism that can be seen in India for a long period of time. Casteism is also known as Varnashrama Dharma. Varnashrama Dharma was started by Aryan Brahmins. There were thought to be two distinct races in India, the native Dravidians and the immigrant Aryans. There had always been various groups of foreigners who came into India from outside at various periods of time. Different groups of foreigners who came with religions are Israelites, Jews, Zoroastrians, Syrian Christians, Muslims and European Christians. The Muslims captured the political power around 12th c. A. D. and the European Christians began to capture power around 18th c. A. D. in India. The group of foreigners who came without any religion are known as the Aryans.

The Aryan Brahmins made use of the concept of Advaita 'Aham Brahmasmi' (meaning I am God) to make the Dravidians remain slaves politically as well as religiously never to have freedom. Hitler who identified himself with the mythical Aryan race and massacred the Jews, also knew of the very same thing that I speak now. This was the basis of his whole agruement against the Jews. Manudharmasastra or Varnashrama Dharma which is the root cause of all racism is sustained by the Sankara Mutts using Advaita philosophy.

In conculsion to race this needs to be said the three (3) primary races are Caucasian, the Mangolian and the Negroid. Nor is the Caucasian race the "white" race. Caucasians can be of any color from pure white to almost pure black, with every shade of brown in between. The predominent Caucasian type found in the world is not the blond-blue-eyes northern European but the black hair, brown-eyed darker skinned Mediterranean type that we find from southern Europe to north India. Similarly the Mongolian race is not yellow. Many Chinese have skin whiter than many so-called Cauca- sians. People have been taught to define race in terms of color which is so misleading.

[pointybum]

::) Ok back on topic. Racism was thought to have developed in the world society only from the 19th c.A.D. Apartheid in the history of the world occurs in the Vedas, this racism is Advaita philosophy which was developed in India in 9th c.A.D. Another face of racism is casteism that can be seen in India for a long period of time. Casteism is also known as Varnashrama Dharma. Varnashrama Dharma was started by Aryan Brahmins. There were thought to be two distinct races in India, the native Dravidians and the immigrant Aryans. There had always been various groups of foreigners who came into India from outside at various periods of time. Different groups of foreigners who came with religions are Israelites, Jews, Zoroastrians, Syrian Christians, Muslims and European Christians. The Muslims captured the political power around 12th c. A. D. and the European Christians began to capture power around 18th c. A. D. in India. The group of foreigners who came without any religion are known as the Aryans.

The Aryan Brahmins made use of the concept of Advaita 'Aham Brahmasmi' (meaning I am God) to make the Dravidians remain slaves politically as well as religiously never to have freedom. Hitler who identified himself with the mythical Aryan race and massacred the Jews, also knew of the very same thing that I speak now. This was the basis of his whole agruement against the Jews. Manudharmasastra or Varnashrama Dharma which is the root cause of all racism is sustained by the Sankara Mutts using Advaita philosophy.

In conculsion to race this needs to be said the three (3) primary races are Caucasian, the Mangolian and the Negroid. Nor is the Caucasian race the "white" race. Caucasians can be of any color from pure white to almost pure black, with every shade of brown in between. The predominent Caucasian type found in the world is not the blond-blue-eyes northern European but the black hair, brown-eyed darker skinned Mediterranean type that we find from southern Europe to north India. Similarly the Mongolian race is not yellow. Many Chinese have skin whiter than many so-called Cauca- sians. People have been taught to define race in terms of color which is so misleading.

wow!

Are we dealing with your specialist subject here? Very nice. But we are dealing with the origins of racism, rather than the gradual growth of racism to present day. There has got to be a starting point, an era where the continuity of abuse gradually transforms to type-casting - do you think this derived from the Romans, or earlier perhaps?

[quoudam72]

But we are dealing with the origins of racism, rather than the gradual growth of racism to present day. There has got to be a starting point, an era where the continuity of abuse gradually transforms to type-casting - do you think this derived from the Romans, or earlier perhaps?

Yes, I pointed that out in the first paragraph of my previous post. I did not go into all the details because it is up to others to search for further information.

[zamboe]

I will just try to answer the main subject of this thread.

I think is not possible to determine or point some kind of event, time or group that begun whit racism practics. Since it existed since there are records of humans groups living together on earth, thousands of years ago before Jesus Christ.

[quoudam72]

There are documents (historical events) that can show how white racism practices were started. I showed one such event in a previous post maybe it is the fact that I made references using text from the language of the Hindus that this was not understood.

I will say this the origins of colorism rest in religion, the fact is that during the past century or more, racist opinions has not come from religion, but rather, from science. The origins of racism rest within our beliefs concerning the origins of the races themselves. Also take into consideration that evolutionary theory has viewed race as the "scale" of human evolution, from lower to higher.

For example Darwin's The Descent of Man epitomizes his views on race:

At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time, the anthropomorphous apes...will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.

Another example is from Tomas Huxley an English sciencist who help promote the theory of evolution:

No rational man, cognizant of the facts, believes that the average Negro is the equal, still less the superior, of the white man. And if this be true, it is simply incredible that, when all his disabilities are removed, and our prognathous relative has a fair field and no favour, as well as no oppressor, he will be able to compete successfully with his bigger-brained and smaller-jawed rival, in a contest which is to be carried out by thoughts and not by bites.

In conculsion to the information that I have posted I have found that no color prejudice (colorism) existed in pagan Europe this would be before pre-Christian Western Europe. In other parts of the world, specifically among the ancient Jews color prejudice existed. For reference I suggest Unger's Bible Dictionary, Winston Dictionary (England), Merriam-Webster's and The Jewish Encyclopedia.

[zamboe]

There are documents (historical events) that can show how white racism practices were started. I showed one such event in a previous post maybe it is the fact that I made references using text from the language of the Hindus that this was not understood.

I will say this the origins of colorism rest in religion, the fact is that during the past century or more, racist opinions has not come from religion, but rather, from science. The origins of racism rest within our beliefs concerning the origins of the races themselves. Also take into consideration that evolutionary theory has viewed race as the "scale" of human evolution, from lower to higher.

Let me elaborate over my previous post, that you might be refering to.

When I say that there are not a certain event, time or people that originated it, I mean there are a primary racist society.

Of course at certain cultures exists the written references of that beginning, but it doesn't apply to all the human race, since racism in it's different expressions existed in several ways in different cultures and different times, there is no way to find a certain time and place when this begun and from that ocassion and time the racism spread out over the earth.

[quoudam72]

Ok Zamboe we (you and I) agree but we also disagree. The topic is 'how racism really started' and I think I gave a very good begining (to the discussion) based on the information that I know.

Maybe we can not pin point the exact moments perhaps that would be an impossible task. I started with a very important documenat that has been translated from ancient Sanskrit. If these (references in previous posts) are not some sort of 'beginings' (origins) then they are some very good sources of racism.

[zamboe]

Agree on that, since we can only refer to historical references and documents that show how it started and interpret it based on how history developed, otherwise would be just speculation.

Bible (Old Testament-First 5 books-"Pentateuco") is full of racism practics, publically and socially accepted in those days, obviously that under our view in this time. However at this moment I can't refert it as a reference for beginning, since If i remind correctly, the descripcion was like it happened since a long time before.

[Navaros]

i think the original post in this thread and therefore this whole thread, is racist

[Gobalopper]

How is the first post racist?

[pointybum]

i think the original post in this thread and therefore this whole thread, is racist

How can that be Nav?

It is an intelligent discussion, and an informative one too. If one be aware of the history, surely it would be a step forward in the right direction to help counter racism, even on this scale of an internet discussion?

[Caid Ivik]

So, in every person is kind of local-patriotism. It's natural love for own group. These groups are separated by your senses. And don't say there is no visual difference between black and white. Of course it does no superiority of one group over other one. That feelingis caused by enslavement of Africans, done in 1500-1900.

And descents of these people now blame Slovak football fans for racism. Is strong peeping insultant for black footballers? And when Beckham or Southgate had the ball, there was no peeping? Or then it wasn't insultant? Horrible this western hypocritism. (according to 15th October match Slovakia-England)