Girls too feminist nowadays?

[nemafakei]

"Condemn my gender and identity, and conform to the feministic principles that every student in my class takes (including my teacher!!!)? Or do I stick up for my own gender and try to say things like marital rape never happen?"

No, you should present the ideas in a different way... yes, they re bad things, but males are not always to blame. Do not conform to feminism, argue for reassertion of equality. eg maternity leave should be no greater than paternity leave. Argue that single mothers are just as much to blame as the fathers for the creation of a child who may not be able to be paid for, and that, more often than not, the father has less say in the affairs of the child.

Whenever you hear a story that is pro-feminist, there is a fair chance that there's a catch or a counter-story, similar to the above. Therefore, you can dissuade feminism without being hypocritical and slipping into male-chauvanism.

Failing that, study ancient languges - it's less of an issue.

"people who can find these ideas plausible really need to be shot"

No, their jobs should be removed so that more capable people can redo the system.

[Alia_of_the_Knife]

"And then they get all pissy when a guy stares at her half-showing breasts."

I admit that some girls are like that. I am ashamed to be called a girl when I'm around people like that. But still, though they flaunt themselves, somewhere deep inside them they do have some modesty. It's ingrained in their brains, though they push it down.

Also, I would just like to clarify, I am not like that.

[Acriku]

I respect that of you, and hopefully most girls will grow up (teen girls). Power to humanity!

[ethan]

i agree with all of you.

by the way, Acriku, do you want that wholesale web site?

[Acriku]

Whole sale website?

[Caid Ivik]

Fakei, you should study not only ancient languages but ancient literature too. Philosophy of these era is fully patriarchal. We all, both men and women, have to think about every motion. Girls are typical for their emotional straightness, so they may look quite primitive. Of course, not all, or just part. We are humans, weak and still not so intelligent. We have to know, what we can and can't do, as like what we have to do.

[guusr5644]

ha a women on fed2k :O :O :O cant belive it its like to see

a woman playing online in emp

[nemafakei]

"you should study not only ancient languages but ancient literature too"

Usually, it's hard to study one without a lot of the other. So, I do both. "Philosophy of these era is fully patriarchal" - exactly. The idea of women's rights is, in most cases, not even considered. Since it is not considered, it is not a problem.

[Caid Ivik]

I think it's a question of social evolution. No special positive discrimination would solve feminism cause.

[nemafakei]

I agree! 'Positive discrimination' is immoral as well as illogical.

[SurlyPIG]

In response to DRFsimmsey - I agree with what Nema says. Just agree or disagree on individual points. You don't have to jump on one side of the other. I find, walking the line makes you very likeable in these obviously sensitive situations. That said, never take the male side when it comes to relationship abuse. Just don't. The numbers are there, never argue against them. Always take the female side on that one! I think I read something about reverse rape from some1 in this thread...well I say that's laughable. Unless the woman is a powerlifter, it's almost physically impossible for that to happen if each person is the same age. Also, women are not physically abusive by nature. Testosterone, (male hormone) not only makes men much stronger, but also makes them generally more aggresive and violent.

Though I think that both sexes should be equal in all ways, I realized I have a few biases...

1) I think WAY more women should be high-level politicians. Where are all the Margret Thatchers? If women were dominant and/or equal in arab culture, do you really think the West would be having such a bad terrorist problem? I think the demographics of world leaders should reflect the demographics of the world.

2) I don't think women should ever be forced to go to war. It's not a matter of capabilities, as obviously anyone with training and grit can, it's just something I believe...Don't ask me to explain it, it's just how I feel.

[Caid Ivik]

Lady Margaret Thatcher was just one of few. USA have had no female president. Your testosteron theory is true for animals. But we are intelligent humans not primitive instincted animals. Emotional, or aggresive politicians are normally demagogues (Zirinovskij in Russia and so on) or in 3rd world. We are civilized. Men and women aren't equal, one can do one thing, other next one. What God made, is made, we have democracy and if women would be equal rulers as men, they would be equal in numbers too. If one woman is a good politician, she can do it, but there aren't much.

[Acriku]

I agree a lot Caid, and my $0.02 is that think of humanity as individuals, not classes or genders. Men can do things that women can't, women can do things men can't, some men can do things women can do only, vice versa. Gender is too general, if you are going to characterize people you would need to be more specific.

[SurlyPIG]

Well no kidding obviously they're not equal, what I was getting at is that they should have equal opportunities. As for leadership, if the situation was reversed, do you think Georgia Bush and Sadama Hussain would be going at it? No...women are more peaceful. It's just in their nature. They just aren't physically aggressive like men are. Sometimes that's a bad thing but in this case I think it's good. And how about the scandals, eh? Do you really think there'd be a Betty Clinton having an affiar with intern Moe Lewinski? I think not...

[Acriku]

ACE, women are products of their times. Unfortunately those times suppressed women's potential. Just look at societies where women ruled supreme - the Amazon warriors for example. Extremely ferocious. If they had a chance a long time ago, women would be as much aggressive as us.

[quoudam72]

According to a news report, a certain private school in Washington was recently faced with a unique problem. A number of 12-year-old girls were beginning to use lipstick and would make up their faces in the bathroom. That was fine, but after they put on their lipstick they would press their lips against the mirror, leaving dozens of little lip prints.

Every night, the maintenance man would remove them and the next day, the girls would do it again. Finally the principal decided that something had to be done. She called all the girls into the bathroom and met them there with the maintenance man. She explained that all these lip prints were causing a major problem for the custodian who had to clean the mirrors every night.

To demonstrate how difficult it had been to clean the mirrors, she asked the maintenance man to show the girls how much effort was required. He took out a long-handled squeegee, dipped it in the toilet, and cleaned the mirror with it. Since then, there have been no lip prints on the mirror.

There are teachers, and then there are educators...

;)

[Acriku]

I heard that joke before, hilarious :)

[nemafakei]

Surely everyone is a product of their time?

"do you think Georgia Bush and Sadama Hussain would be going at it?... Do you really think there'd be a Betty Clinton having an affiar with intern Moe Lewinski?"

Whyever not? (no overtones of optimism implied)

[SurlyPIG]

ACE, women are products of their times. Unfortunately those times suppressed women's potential. Just look at societies where women ruled supreme - the Amazon warriors for example. Extremely ferocious. If they had a chance a long time ago, women would be as much aggressive as us.

Actually no they wouldn't be. We *ARE more agressive by nature. It's in our blood. Well, rather, our balls. The hormone testosterone is what makes guys generally stronger, faster, more violent, agressive etc. It just does. It can't be side-stepped.

Nema, I said that partly 'cause of the test' thing, but also because of history. Almost of the aggressive, war-waging societies were extremely supressive towards women or some other minority. I'm not saying western society is perfect in this regard, but just think of the war on terror right now. Arab men make their wives stay at home and completely cover their face. They aren't allowed to work or get an education. The Nazis were the same way towards Jews. See what I'm getting at?

[exatreide]

but the german woman were unsupressed.

the jews is a different thing entriely.

the germans simply wanted a scape goat after the great war.

hittler who had been turned down by a austrian art school by a jew.

still had a hatred for them.

so he started the jews/gays/gypsies/blacks are the reasons for this and that bla bla bla.

the people rallied behind it and thats that.

[SurlyPIG]

Yeah I know...I wasn't saying it was specific to women. My point was supression = bad bad bad bad very bad. And I wouldn't go so far as to say that women were completely unsupressed. Almost all the time if you find a culture or a majority supressing a minority, it's not just that one minority. It's ALL of 'em. ie the KKK aren't exactly heroes to women's rights.

[Acriku]

ACE, women can adapt to a harsh environment and thus secrete more and more testosterone. So yes it can be side-stepped. That is, if women were dominant.

We are more aggressive because of the amounts of testerone, but women are not subjected to less testosterone if they can adapt to more amounts.

There are theories and corrolaries going along with this in my AP Biology Text, and probably websites.

Nema, I know we all are, I just used women for that example.

[Alia_of_the_Knife]

ACE, I think you have the right attitude. Women are not suppressed as much as they are in other countries, and that alone is the reason I like living here. I think that women are strong, but they do have their weaknesses. Now this is my observation, but I've noticed that men can stay more detached than women. That is a advantage in some cases, such as lawyers and the like. But this could also be a disadvantage. Women tend to get into what they are doing more. Note that these are just observations.

I thank you all that you think that women can be strong, and I'm sure that with men like you guys around women will get the rights that they deserve. ;D ;D

[SurlyPIG]

We are more aggressive because of the amounts of testerone, but women are not subjected to less testosterone if they can adapt to more amounts.

Heh, well yeah, you might get the odd really aggressive woman, probably from generations of such mothers, but on the average, women will never produce as much test. And trust me, the one hormone makes an unbelieveable difference on anger and aggression.

The other day when I was at the gym a bud of mine told me about one of the other members, who is definately a using steroids (lets call him Mr. Juiced). He's about 280-300lbs and from the looks of it he'd be about 5-10% bodyfat. This is world-level bodybuilder material here...He's one of those guys who squats like 300 lbs, into a deep, butt-to-the-floor postion and explodes up and rockets the bar over his head. Anyway, one of the 'roids this guy is probably taking is test. Well my friend told me that he saw Mr. Juiced at a club. Apparently someone made a pass at his girlfriend, and instead of taking it as a compliment or anything he decided to lip the guy off. Well the guy got his drink poured in his lap, and when he stood up he got his nose broken. The bouncers did their best but they were no match. It took 6 bouncers and 3 cops to finally bring him down and haul him away. Well the latest on Mr. Juiced is that he's facing Assault charges plus the whole reisisting arrest, assaulting a police officer thing. All because someone he didn't even know made one pass at his gf then left her alone. Is he just an abusive asshole? Probably. But I think it's more from the gear than anything. That's the kind of stuff test does to you.

Granted, the average man doesn't have that much going through his system, and almost everyone can handle the feelings associated with it, but it's a powerful thing. Women have almost none of it. They can be aggressive and angry no problem, but it's more of a learned behavior and not so much biological. Even the most adapted woman won't produce that much test because, well, they don't have balls! (hence the name)

Like Alia said woman are more attached to stuff in their life, which mostly comes from estrogen. Whether or not they respond aggressively or passively depends on...well...the time of the month, if you know what I mean...But like guys almost everyone can control themselves. The women that can't end up sad. The men that can't end up in jail. It's basic bio man.

Alia, you're certainly right about the detachment part. You referred to it in carrers, but it actually comes from the maternal instincts...And yes, it can be an advantage or a disadvantage. Men make good defense lawyers. They can..umm...turn off their conscience when they enter a courtroom. Women make better proscecutors, as their emotions often agree with their morals and their postition.

[Acriku]

ACE I know what testosterone does, I wasn't arguing that. I was just arguing that women can have "as much" as a man. That's basic biology. Being in AP Bio has its advantages :P