jacobdouds Posted March 27, 2002 Posted March 27, 2002 If any of you who are interested get to read a book called 'Flatland' by Edwin A. Abbott. It explains my theory a bit.
gryphon Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 Nope, that was the explenation I "needed", the extra part you use combined with the big-bang theory is that humans have "a purpose". We are ment to exists in a way. Than I understand What you're saying. :)
Terror Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 ok... let's say there is a god.... what was his purpose in creating us... i mean... what good have humans done... we fuck up this world... and probably the next ones also..... we slaughter other species and even or own species... realy, what was his purpose? did he think he could make a perfect being but made a mistake?
Gunseng_Harkonnen Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 This is kinda space case here...want create perfect being and make mistake...like in sf movies...well, listen Daniken...if God exist and let humans destroy themselves, let nature kills beings with floods, vulkans and fire, it must mean that he is very cruel God
Sardauker-Kirov Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 I think god has given us the Freedom to do whatever we want. If we bomb eachother on earth with a nuclear bomb it is our own fault, Not gods. :)
Gunseng_Harkonnen Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 But if God is so loving, why he allow little children die, why he allow happen Afgfhan tragedy when women and even babies die, why if he can do a little hand move and repair everything. I think there isn`t God, people are lonely whit their angry and they will destroy themselves (uh, this last one is only my emotions).
gryphon Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 God isn't doing the torture.Just as Acriku and myself said before, taken the "fact" that God has created us, no one says that he still has to be here to watch over us when we live, he give US live. To use or missuse it ourselfs. When we die we can [ or not ] go to him / heaven again. But that we are [ mayby ] created by God doesn't mean he has to be still controling our lives.Think of it, than God is controling our lives, not we because he whould contstantly be interfering. And we are manipulated by God to do the right things. That not a verry good God know is it ? :)
Gunseng_Harkonnen Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 But how do you know that he isn`t control your life now? Maybe he isn`t good God and created people only cos he was bored. If God is so powerful people had to be like a toys for him. And what about Sodoma and Gomora? And Noah history? Then he could control humans. And if he was so angry at them, he hadn`t to destroy all life on earth. It isn`t show of love.
gryphon Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 Now that's %%@&%@&^.Firts you say that "God is good and therefor there shouldn't be any suffering so God probbebly doesn't exist".And know God could be "bad" and creating the suffering of the world.That's not a verry stable position, nor even an arguable position because you keep changing position, :)So what is your position ?- God is good, there should be any suffering then in the world. [ I've explained this in my previous posts ]- God can be "evil" and so there could be suffering. [ but then YOU say thay God exists ]:)
Gunseng_Harkonnen Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 This second one is not my position, I have only said that If you say that God doesn`t control our life and he shouldn`t control, why he controled humans life in past. My position is still God doesn`t exist and maybe I didn`t said my point in good way.
gryphon Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 Nope, was my mistake.But where did I say [ or how ] that he controled human live in the past ? He never controled us, he just created us. But you don't have to be able to controle what you create.You can say that God doesn't exist. And I whould aslo exept that position myself. Just wanted to know one what ground you say that [ come to that conclusion ]. Because simply say that he doesn't exists because there is suffering in the world isn't sufficient I think. [ see 2 posts above ].
Gunseng_Harkonnen Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 He controled humans in past cos he changed their lifes (like Noah). If he could show his power and made flood, why now he can`t save baby life?I don`t belive in God not becouse of suffering in the world. Its kinda personaly and private thing. In half. The another half is: There are a lot of religions, why you know that yours is true? Inaccurates in bible, if this is holy book and show whats God said to people, why it says sometimes such strange things? But I think that my privete feelings are most important, when I was youger I thought about this and now I`m sure that I just can`t belive in this. I don`t say that you haven`t right, I don`t say that Musslims haven`t right, I only say that I don`t belive...
Acriku Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 If would be beneficial for you to read the posts in previous pages, because we go into depth with that subject Gun.
gryphon Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 With God i don't mean the God from the Christian Bible, or the Coran, or some other religion. Religions are more based on culture, history and indoctrination then on "God" [ in a way, so don't take it to litteraly ]With the debate of God, God is a higher entity that has created us. [ a verry small and simple explenation ]Just as Jacob mentioned, we are here with a purpose and he [ or it ] give us that purpose.That's just an idea, and you dont' have to believe it. [ I don't even fully think it's right ] Your position is also a verry defendable position. But you can't forget neither of the possitions are absolute. Thet can't stay standing by themselfs.[ I allready knew that you didn't believe yourself, just wanted to know your argument and not simply "I don't believe". Thanks ]:)
Gunseng_Harkonnen Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 You but not me. If it is religion thread and if its disscusion about this, why I can`t say opinion. I`m not as long as you and I can`t reply on previous posts.
Terror Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 hmm... i think that this "god" is just some sort of creation of human mind in the past when people were poor and had bad lives and they could only hope to get a better life in "heaven".Or god is a creation of a women/guy who thought: what shall create now to make another hype? and wrote a book (bible) around this guy... and his book was more popular then he ever imagined... perhaps it was jesus who wrote that book!
Acriku Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 I was only advising you that that question has been asked, and argued in depth. I just thought you would get information helping you. Sorry ::)
jacobdouds Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 Maybe God is dead. Who sais he has to live forever, maybe he created us and then died, leaving us to us.
Sardauker-Kirov Posted March 28, 2002 Posted March 28, 2002 Sure Gunseng. *Backs away, Expecting him to burst out in anger in a dark corner * Harkonnen are always hot temperd ;DAnyways back to topic.
Edric O Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 Okay, I have some catching up to do on replies, so bare with me...1. The_old_worm:"No, Edric, creating enemies is the charge of the Church. 'Join us or go to hell!' And there hasn't been an establishment that has used that tactic more than the church."Really? What about Bush's "axis of evil"? Not to mention the "red scare" of the cold war and all the artificial enemies invented by totalitarian regimes ("evil jews", "imperialist americans", etc.)Seems to me the Church is far behind in this field...As for parental influence, of course it's a factor in determining a person's morals, faith and so on. But then again, ANY people that you talk with every day will have at least some influence on your personality.Of course leaders of the Church have at times been greedy, power-hungry, materialistic and corrupt. But what political leaders haven't? Besides, those times have passed. The separation of Church and state benefits the Church as much as it benefits the state, IMO.And even when they were bending the rules, the Bible was still there to prove they were wrong, but nobody took notice of it.As for "mind control" of Christians in the times of Roman persecution, who could have possibly been doing the actual controlling? And for what purpose?
The_old_worm Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 Man, I miss one day and look at what I have to catch up with.Gryphon, in response to your post way back, I agree with the flaws of human imagination and reason. The mistakes of that method are evident in history. However, imagination and reason have their strengths too. imagination gives us to the ability to imagine the possibilities of the universe. Without it, we wouldn't even be thinking about foldspace, black holes, and life on other planets. Our ability to imagine the wonders of the universe are the driving force of exploration and discovery.Imagination without reason leads to religious myths, though. We need the scientific process to show us the evidence for our theories and give us the probabilities of our ideas. This along with those inherent abilities as humans to reason are our best tools to find truth.I'm not saying this method doesn't have flaws, which is why we should take nothing as absolute truth, but it is our best chance to find truth.
Sardauker-Kirov Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 Here we go again, God can never be proofed by "Science" We talked about this many times and why do you think the Church and religion is a "Mind" controlling Activity?Some people believes in god the peacefull way and the other the fanatic and Hostile way, Trying to "force" people to believe in their god.Weird... Why doesn't my grandma who believes in god doesn't get manipulated by the Church's Priest?Everybody has his own opinion about religion.
The_old_worm Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 Edric, you're right. Certainly economics and politics have led to many conflicts, but that proves nothing about religion.
gryphon Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 "Kirov, I don't know what you are reading."I don't know what I'm reading ! What kind of keyboard do you use ;D[ just kidding ]Edric O, "Of course leaders of the Church have at times been greedy, power-hungry, materialistic and corrupt. But what political leaders haven't ?"I don't think you can make one right out of 2 wrongs. That one has been wrong can't be corrected by saying the other was also wrong so it's right for the first to be wrong.But I do agree with the general idea you've mentioned. Just a small remark.Old Worm, .. .. no comment, I agree.
Recommended Posts