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Israel attacks "Free Gaza" flotilla

Anathema
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SandChigger

SandChigger

Posted
Posted

Are you trying to say that the right-wing oriented political parties of the West are Christian?

No, I was saying that that particular brand of stupidity is obviously not limited by religious boundaries. :)

Tatar Khan

Tatar Khan

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I thought of that, but I assumed Israel would have lots of boats nearby to monitor all traffic to and from the fleet.And if in international waters, some hamas boat goes and picks up or delivers weapons, I assume Israel would have monitored the boat to see if it ever enters their water, and if so then it would be searched (or search any boats going to/from the fleet).

Well once again look at Somalia pirates they seems to have no problems taking over ships even though there is naval presence of the major powers in the area and even though the ships are escorted in convoys across the area. The Hamas boats would not have to be big they could really be small for purpose of maneuverability and ability to beached anywhere on the coast. If the flotilla would have been trying to smuggle weapons than the stash would not be  all on one ship and it also would be in small bundles to be less noticeable thus the small boats would be easy way to transport the stuff of the flotilla ships.

From what I've read Turkey has been friendly towards Israel, and now Israel pissed off one of the only 'friends' they had in the region.

Turkey has been leaning pro-Arab for awhile now. The reason is that with EU membership not coming soon they decided to make friends with Arabic and Islamic world so to become a type of middleman between West and Islamic world. This way they are hoping to gain greater economic growth and make themselves more attractive to EU for purposes of membership. Some of the leading exports to Arabic world right now are Turkish TV shows which got strong anti-Israel themes in them.

Couldn't Israel guide the boat to gaza and search it?

Or does Israel not want to do this and deter anyone from trying to access Gaza?

Israel apparently told the flotilla boats to redirect course to Israel controlled port, where the aid and ships would be inspected but flotilla refused saying that their destination is Gaza. The refusal is partially due to the fact that activists are trying to make the statement by breaking the blockade and also because Israel doesn

Anathema

Anathema

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  • Author
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Some governments, including Israel, say that the raid outside territorial waters was legal because Israel has declared a blockade and therefore has the right to intercept ships heading to Gaze even while they're still in international waters.

One problem with this line of reasoning is that it applies to international conflicts. Gaza is not a recognised sovereign state, not even by Israel.

Secondly, the blockade itself is, according to many, illegitimate.

The activists are bringing it in to help rebuilt the destroyed homes and infrastructure in Gaza. However, Israel
Andrew

Andrew

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Wow. So can someone explain why international waters instead of Israeli waters?

Are they trying to prove that no one can enter Israeli waters? If you intend to do so, they will board your boat before you can?

What if say a Turkish warship escorts an aid ship to Israeli water border? Would Israel attack them before they get there?

athanasios

athanasios

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Since you (and all others) didn't read my previous posts carefully and didn't do some research you don't seem to catch the point:

Israel will attack any Turkish Navy ship that enters their EEZ.

exatreide

exatreide

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Or you could simply put the boat in Port in Israel and have the aid delivered over land.

Media victories are just that, they don't help the Palestinians. I'm sure the Palestinians would much rather you get a big boat and fill it with ten thousand pounds of grain and have it transferred over land. Then 300 pounds brought in a "mini submarine". I'm sure Hamas would like that, maybe you can give them more rockets in the subs to.

Eliyyahu

Eliyyahu

Posted
Posted

Wow. So can someone explain why international waters instead of Israeli waters?

Are they trying to prove that no one can enter Israeli waters? If you intend to do so, they will board your boat before you can?

What if say a Turkish warship escorts an aid ship to Israeli water border? Would Israel attack them before they get there?

I would be happy to explain to you.

Since the activists made clear their intention to try to break through the bloackade in spite of the alternatives offered, Israel was not required to wait for them to enter their territorial waters.

That aside, the flotilla never intended to enter recognized Israeli Territorial Waters in the first place.  They were attempting to go directly to Gaza.  So either way they would have been conducting this in waters internationally considered to be outside of those of Israel.

athanasios

athanasios

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No, no no! It seems that you didn't read my post:

Israel will attack any Turkish Navy ship that enters their EEZ.

Of course Israel didn't say this officially, but we all know that Israel talks with acts ;).

Turkey has challenged and questioned Israel's EEZ. Turkey behaves as if all East Mediterranean is their own sea (Pax Ottomana). Israel cannot tolerate this threat.

From The Jerusalem Post:

Hamas is not a terrorist organization, it is a resistance movement, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan declared on Friday at a rally in the Turkish province of Konya, according to local daily Hurriyet.

Report: Erdogan considering visiting Gaza to 'break blockade'

Turkish PM may visit Gaza' date=' [b']ask Turkish Navy to accompany another aid flotilla, according to Lebanese newspaper; Turkish military opposes cutting security ties with Israel...

Ahmadinejad and Turkish PM Erdogan Hold Meeting to Discuss Strengthening Ties...
Ahmadinejad: Israel's annihilation near

At a gathering of worshipers in Istanbul Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad spoke to an enthusiastic Turkish audience saying

Tatar Khan

Tatar Khan

Posted
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Or you could simply put the boat in Port in Israel and have the aid delivered over land.

As was mentioned before some aid is not allowed into Gaza by Israel, things as construction materials. Now there is a reason why they are not allowed in but the humanitarians also have a strong reason why to bring it in.

Media victories are just that, they don't help the Palestinians. I'm sure the Palestinians would much rather you get a big boat and fill it with ten thousand pounds of grain and have it transferred over land. Then 300 pounds brought in a "mini submarine". I'm sure Hamas would like that, maybe you can give them more rockets in the subs to. 

Sure that be great but here is how I see things are going to happen. You get that grain in and maybe you get the tv appearance on Israeli news. That is all. Palestinians will not fall in love with you at all. Look at how much the poor nations of Africa love the West, and each Western country has large parts of its budget allocated to aid to those countries.

I pull in that mini-sub the result would be a rally, organized by Hamas to celebrate this event. World press will cover such an event. I will certainly get to be on TV in Canada as the person who broke through the blockade, might be other appearances as well. There are also possibilities that the Turkish government and Iranian government will invite me for a visit. The final result other humanitarian agencies will also would love to have you work with them.

As for smuggling in weapons well that is risky and the margins are small this days in small arms dealing. Hamas also already have their own suppliers which will not be very kind to anyone going into their market. Now getting an artillery piece or a tank into Gaza that would be worth the risk as I am sure Hamas will pay top dollar for one of those, however there is no practical way of getting those things in.

Are you sure? Not with HAF

Wow F4s that are still flying. Wow! How Greece got those? I thought that they were never exported; US had F5s build for that purpose.

In the end the reason the airplane deliveries will fail is because any flight has official flight plan that is declared and so the Israel

athanasios

athanasios

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Fanatics?

I am much concerned about Turkey. Government is in conflict with the Army and we cannot be sure who will win. If it is the Army then for sure there will be no war with Israel. They are predictable. But if it is the Government you may expect anything. Those guys are Fanatic Muslims and hate the West. They are not very different from Hamas.

athanasios

athanasios

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And to paraphrase the Bible: We will thank God when he makes the eyes of those who deliberately defame him melt in their sockets and they become dung to use to transform the earth to a paradise.

Eliyyahu

Eliyyahu

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Israel Lifts Ban on Some Foods for Gaza

Yep, the blockade is all about security when you have to ban cookies.

I'm sure a lot of people are swayed by such simplifications, but I will put it bluntly.  Israel makes sure Gaza gets all of the humanitarian aid that it needs.  Hamas has even admitted that there is nobody going hungry in Gaza.  Gaza and West Bank elected Hamas, Hamas seized Gaza from Fatah, and they have done nothing but attack Israel from the territory since.  They constantly violated every "cease fire," but Israel does not go into Gaza on a whim.  They let it build up until they can't justify allowing it anymore.  Hamas' existence is based on the notion that not only are Ramallah, Hebron, and Jerusalem occupied (which the West accepts to different extents), but that so are Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Tiberias, which most of the world accepts as cities in Israel.  So Israel sees to it that they have what they need in terms of food and medicine, but they feel no obligation to supply the hostile entity with treats.  You can choose to disagree, but that is the policy.  It would change in a heartbeat if Hamas accepted the terms of its acceptance into recognition, or if Hamas was replaced in Gaza by a moderate Palestinian entity capable of controlling the territory, but so long as they are the power the current situation can't be improved upon to any great extent.

athanasios

athanasios

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Posted

Not all Jews believe in YHWH and Israel is not a theocratic nation as ancient Israel was.

Prophecies of restoration in the Old Testament have not been fulfilled.

Something greater is implied than just one nation.

So I don't think that it was God who put them back. They fought for it.

God is not the ruler of this world. Yet he interferes in events to protect his servants. Otherwise Satan would have annihilated us all. There is so much hatred against those who love God.

Sneakgab

Sneakgab

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Posted

''Palestinian official Raed Fattouh, who coordinates the flow of goods into Gaza with Israel, said SODA, juice, jam, spices, shaving cream, potato chips, cookies and candy were now permitted.''

Soda?...SODA!?

OH SHIT! GET OUT OF ISRAEL NOW BEFORE THE BOTTLE ROCKET STORM!!!!

It's NOT good!

another rocket strike

OH SHIT THEY GOT IT RIGHT THIS TIME! RUN!! RUN BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!!

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