Eliyyahu

Dragoon, They all also link exactly the same way. http://forum.dune2k.com/index.php?/topic/23622-bush-tax-cuts-10-years/ http://forum.dune2k.com/index.php?/topic/23589-war-in-libya/ http://forum.dune2k.com/index.php?/topic/23604-everywhere-a-nation/ Not quite as distinctive as the #ell thing, but still a lack of effort distinguishing beyond dropping details they want to believed about each character.

Not only does Eras show he has been paying attention one way or another, but Curt has an intimate knowledge of things long before his time. The thing Eras doesn't seem to get is the differences in belief between him and Curt are not credible because of reasonable suspicion, and an unwillingness to flesh out these differences in actual debate. I know many good Christians, and I don't think any of them would exploit their good deeds on a message board as Eras has done here, nor go on the attack as Eras has here, yet they perfectly manage to get their beliefs across without compromising. This is something Hwi did as well. They have not been positive examples of Christianity, and it has little to do with their beliefs. I think Eras lacks the credibility to be believed in the things he says about himself in his main account, let alone possible other accounts. Whatever disagreements I have with Ath, I think he says what he is, says what he believes, and doesn't put up a front.

An obsessed person can use proxies which will make them appear to be coming from different ip addresses. I'm not sure if there is any way to trace them back to the person using them.

Arnoldo, When Dune was published I don't think Saddam had much if any recognition. If I remember correctly he did not become prominent until the late 60s, after he got out of prison, and after Dune was published. He was certainly nothing you would base a character like Shaddam after, and the character Shaddam was long gone by the time Saddam began to look anything like a ruler. I also do not see the support in the quote you posted from Frank for the claims of the person in the book.

Curt, Why should anyone expect you and Eras to espouse the same exact opinions on everything? Your posts come off as coming from the finger tips of the author of Eras' posts, regardless of the information being posted in them. So far I haven't seen much of anything from you outside of the topic of Eras. It seems you have come here for no other reason than to discuss Eras and his time on this board, which is the same thing Eras often came here to do. When your average person chooses to stop posting at a message board, they stop. They don't stop and then a friend of theirs shows up on said message board in their place doing nothing other than talking about them. As Wolf suggested, "Why don't you and Eras have a robust dialogue about politics, religion and philosophy? Let's see these disagreements! You know what, DenisAtreides should join in, too. Everyone's tired of hearing from me, naturally, let's see some new debates. Don't be shy, you three go at it! Really get into these points! In depth!"

I am sorry to jump in here so late in the discussion, and if I am off the current discussion. I just wanted to say that I never once felt that my beliefs and voicing my beliefs caused me to be looked at or spoken to in any particular way here by most of the long time regulars (esp. Dante and Wolf), despite being the only person here who believes what I believe. I was never attacked by these people, no nicknames were created for me, disagreement never crossed into any of the places that other posters, who have attributed it to their beliefs, found themselves in. I have tried logging in a few times over the months (finally remembered it today), but for the most part have been uninterested. And that was not because of intolerance on the part of most of the regulars here, it is because of the degeneration of the quality of discussion at the hands of only a few. It is because there is no point arguing with a know-it-all who does little other than spam the forum with Greek news (in Greek), pseudo-science, and baseless linguistic fabrications, on which there is no basis for discussion. There is a mold here, or a trend, and it is that the easier it is for one to be offensive to others, the easier that person seems to be offended by others. Except when they become offended they become a surrounded victim.

I agree, Wolf. I think if the offensive stuff had been dealt with it would have never come to this. Controversy generates responses, but it is a short term solution. Eras, Surely you do not believe that you have been acting respectably in this thread and recent ones? Would your family and your fellow congregants agree with how you have presented your arguments in these threads? You have repeatedly crossed the line in the guise of "telling it like it is," but "telling it like it is" is often a euphemism for being unapologetically, brutally mean. Nobody believes their own beliefs are wrong, but this is not an excuse to insult personally someone you believe to be wrong. You've already established who you think is wrong and how. Your facts should speak for themselves, and just because people do not agree does not mean you should perpetually repeat them with new insulting twists. You are not being an example to be followed.

Oh, I have enjoyed the actual discussion, which you have contributed a good deal to. I am talking about the thread's derailing and those behind it. Is it just expected to fizzle out? I don't get it. The baiting and trolling taking place in these threads is so transparent. Many of us disagree with each other on many things without becoming hostile.

It is a shame that quality threads have been locked while the people inciting the exchanges which condemned those topics lead newer threads down the same path. I can only speak for myself, despite my desire to participate it really kills the inclination to post thorough and quality responses when the discussion could be locked at any moment as a result of a small handful of posters.

arnoldo, That is not a comparison between the DSS Isaiah and the KJV, it is a comparison of an attempted English translation of the DSS Isaiah and of the KJV (also a translation). And none of it addresses the deception of translating mi- and m

1. You have no clue what the Torah and Halacha (Jewish Law) have to say about abortion. 2. You do not observe the Torah, and you reject Jewish Law as obsolete, so stop appealing to its authority in these discussions. Beside, are you ready to cast the first stone? Shabbat Shalom, Eliyyahu

Anybody who can speak modern Hebrew can read the Hebrew Bible, speak it, and understand it. A little Jewish child does what you for some uninformed reason think to be impossible and a nightmare. Greek is absolutely meaningless to understanding Hebrew, and has nothing to do with Hebrew whatsoever. LOL. Greek played no part in the survival of Judaism. More often than not the Greeks were antagonistic toward Jews and Judaism, some of them trying to wipe out Jewish observance entirely (no circumcision and no Torah and worship of a man as God or a god means no Jews), as did their Roman successors. Hellenism and Judaism do not mix. That's not to say that some Greeks weren't drawn to Judaism, or some Jews weren't drawn to Hellenism, but Hellenism and Judaism are at odds with eachother. Christianity is an attempt to mix them, and has never been internally consistent as a result. It is not worth explaining the Talmud to you, nor do I feel inclined to defend it against poor translations, and even poorer interpretations. You can read the Talmud as well as you can read the Hebrew Bible, which is to say not at all. The bottom line is that the NT will never have the status among real Jews as the Talmud, which is authentic Jewish tradition, has had.

Who are you to doubt the KJAV?

Rabban in Hebrew comes from the same root that rabbi comes from, meaning great, much, numerous, important. Paul claims to have studied under Rabban Gamli

I am not surprised by your hostility to the Talmud considering it is authentically Jewish, whereas you are in the unenviable position of trying to sell us a Greek book with Greek ideas foreign to the Hebrew Bible. So long as we continue to exist, our own traditions about ourselves will always be threatening to those who try re-create our history for us to sell their beliefs. I did not say nobody tried to translate different books of the prophets and writings into Greek, but that the Septuagint (which people mistakenly apply to the entire Greek "OT") was only a translation of the "law", the five books of Moses, into Greek. The only authorized Jewish translation of any part of the Hebrew Bible into Greek before the common era was the Torah. This is recorded in the early sources that relate the story. If you do not believe those sources on that point you do not believe them, but they are also the only basis for accepting that Jews ever translated any of their Hebrew Bible into Greek. Regardless, no matter what books or when, they are still not the original Hebrew. You are still relying on a translation, just like those Christians you look down on for relying on KJVs.