Student Tasered for not showing his ID

[Dante]

"Get back over there or you'll be tased too."

Oh yes, because my respect for authority figures is just going to soar when they speak like that. 6 minutes and 32 seconds into the video, check it if you want.

Whether or not the person in question had an ID card, getting tasered is excessive. There really should be no question about that. And as if being zapped once wasn't bad enough, they zapped him again. And again. And again. All the time saying "Stand up, stand up." The whole point of the taser, as those who had been 'trained' to use it should know, is to immobilise someone without causing serious or permanent harm. Where on Earth is the logic that states when you are trying to move someone (who was apparantly willing, but slow and didn't like being touched. Understandably), the best course of action is to hit them with a weapon? Any weapon. Let alone one specifically designed to immobilise people. See earlier point about basic common sense. I mean duh!

And as a biologist, Gunwounds, you should know that being able to scream in pain is not dependent on the functionality of one's legs. Mechanisms such as those required for breathing (and thus shouting), smooth muscle contractions of the stomach, the beating of the heart, these are all unconscious (or subconscious) muscular movements that are more difficult to paralyse than control of the limbs.

As for trusting people obstensibly there for our protection... I don't trust any authority figures, really. Blind trust is never a good idea. And the more potential power they have over me, the less I trust them. Just because someone has a shiny bit of metal and a boring uniform doesn't mean that they can be trusted to carry a weapon, let alone do the right thing with it.

[Mihail]

The guy clearly wanted to be arrested. Note how he screams about "PARTIROIT AKT!!!1". The guy clearly had a bone to pick with them to begin with and he clearly has a delusional mind. What sort of paranoid idiot thinks that a simple school policy has anything to do with the Patriot Act?

If my school implemented a policy of only allowing students with a school ID in the library, then I would take my school ID with me if I went to the library. It is a reasonable request. It is a school library, not a public library. It makes sense. They don't want random disruptive idiots in the library while others are trying to study.

If I found myself without my credentials being asked to leave, I would not make a scene like a dashing baby. That is what morons do and I would like to think I am a moron like our Mr. Mostafa Tabatabainejad.

I will admit, though, that the bacon did go overboard. Still, the guy was just begging for it.

[Acriku]

To be honest, this guy was in a library causing a commotion with the police, and refused to leave. Whether or not he had an ID or not is beyond the point, the police officers asked him and he refused. Now, they have suspicion that he is not a student, and a possible danger to the students around him. Police officers usually assume the worse-case scenario, and this is an example of it. If that little pissant would've gotten off the ground and stopped yelling "Fuck you!" the officers wouldn't have had to go further. And getting tasered is a helluva lot better than getting rubber-bulleted or shot. They extinguished the situation, and without harm to that little pissant.

What pisses me off are the crowds of people gathering around and arguing with the police officers making the situation worse. That's one of the reasons why I refuse to call myself a full liberal, they come across as idiot teenagers who just want to make things worse. I would've told them to back off or get tazed as well, because they are obstructing justice and could possibly intend to do harm on the officers.

[Dante]

The reference to the Patriot Act would be due to the greatly expanded authority of the police and other law enforcement agencies, authority that in this case they are abusing. The Patriot Act, essentially, makes this kind of behaviour easier. There's your answer, doofus.

And you should note that most sources have it that the man was leaving quietly, as Clemenza oh-so-modestly stated that he would, when he objected to physical contact. Given the circumstances, not having ID, this is understandable; not having an ID is not the kind of heinous crime that requires being manhandled from the room. It was only after this objection that he was tasered, started shouting, and 'making a scene.' Frankly, I would be inclined to make a scene too if someone tasered me.

If you can't be bothered to read this post in its entirity, just read this last line, it sums up quite nicely:

I'm right, you're wrong, shut up.

[Mihail]

Very mature, Dante. Very. Anyway, as one comment states:

"On the other hand, I find this video hilarious. If you're told to leave multiple times by the CSO (student volunteers) and disobey, they will get the UCPD. If you disobey THEM multiple times, you're obviously not cooperating."

And:

"Isn't it kind of funny how he has enough strength to scream about the patriot act, him being a student, him trying to just read, and brodcasting that he has a "medical condition?" I don't know about you, but if I had a medical condition that may be aggrevated by the encounter, I wouldn't do anything to trigger it. So i would walk out of the Library peacefully, and TALK to the police."

The guy was being a jerkoff on purpose, Dante. Admit it.

P.S.: No, I won't admit you're right.

[Dante]

*Shrug* I've said my piece. All of the counter-points to your post can be found in my previous posts, which implies that you're not saying anything that hasn't already been said, dealt with, and dismissed. Way to go.

[Mihail]

Actually, you haven't said anything against the fact that the UCPD gets called in only when the student volunteers can't resolve it, so he obviously wasn't "leaving peacefully" or cooperating. What can you say against that, eh? Eh? Eh?

[GUNWOUNDS]

To be honest, this guy was in a library causing a commotion with the police, and refused to leave. Whether or not he had an ID or not is beyond the point, the police officers asked him and he refused. Now, they have suspicion that he is not a student, and a possible danger to the students around him. Police officers usually assume the worse-case scenario, and this is an example of it. If that little pissant would've gotten off the ground and stopped yelling "dash you!" the officers wouldn't have had to go further. And getting tasered is a helluva lot better than getting rubber-bulleted or shot. They extinguished the situation, and without harm to that little pissant.

What pisses me off are the crowds of people gathering around and arguing with the police officers making the situation worse. That's one of the reasons why I refuse to call myself a full liberal, they come across as idiot teenagers who just want to make things worse. I would've told them to back off or get tazed as well, because they are obstructing justice and could possibly intend to do harm on the officers.

Right on Acriku..... the guy was an idiot, and the cops starting thinking worst-case scenario.  And i totally agree that the full liberal teenagers were making the situation worse and egging on the moron to continue his scene.  Also let it be noticed that they were NOT using the "shooting" function of the taser which is meant for full disabling (i.e. cables come shooting out).  They were using the "Drive stun" function which is similar to an electric cow prod.

Cows dont fall on the ground and go limp do they?  No the electric prod drives them forward.  And this drive stun feature was being used.  It is quite visible in one shot where the student gets zapped and he immediately stands up and one of his legs goes flying in the air.  The drive stun feature is supposed to act like a cattle prod and get the person moving.  So the people arguing against the cops are arguing out of ignorance of the device's features.

Those police officers dont get paid 12 dollars an hour to drag people out of buildings.  I wouldnt want to drag someone out of a building.  If i were a cop i would zap the moron too and make him walk out on his own.  I wouldnt give the jerk the satisfaction of being dragged out... cause thats what he wants.  Why should cops give idiots satisfaction?

People must learn that falling on the ground and laying there, demanding that cops drag you out is not a "right"  You dont have a "right to be dragged out of a building".

What happened is a cop put his hand on the guys' shoulder and the student got pissed and fell on the ground and screamed DONT TOUCH ME.  Obviously this student was looking for trouble, and he got what he deserved.  If i ever act like that i hope a cop tasers the sh!t out of me for being a stupid moron.

[GUNWOUNDS]

I'd wish they'd go an inch further.

Wishing that cops be killed is disgusting and immature.

[Andrew]

The police had reason to taser him once. Then get cuffs on.

They had no reason to taser him 5 times. Or maybe 5 zaps is the magic number for someone to "cooperate". Just like beating someone in handcuffs will somehow make them cooperate. They may "deserve" it for being stupid, but doesn't make it legal.

If you can't control someone in handcuffs when you outnumber him, there is a problem not related to the person in handcuffs.

Cows dont fall on teh ground and go limp do they?

I don't know Guns, this famous video shows a cow paralysed by taser.

http://www.taser.com/law/videos04.htm

I'm sure there are electric shock thingies that make cows move around/forward though. Just like pitchforks :)

[GUNWOUNDS]

The police had reason to taser him once. Then get cuffs on.

They had no reason to taser him 5 times. Or maybe 5 zaps is the magic number for someone to "cooperate". Just like beating someone in handcuffs will somehow make them cooperate. They may "deserve" it for being stupid, but doesn't make it legal.

If you can't control someone in handcuffs when you outnumber him, there is a problem not related to the person in handcuffs.

I don't know Guns, this famous video shows a cow paralysed by taser.

http://www.taser.com/law/videos04.htm

I'm sure there are electric shock thingies that make cows move around/forward though. Just like pitchforks :)

Thats an ANIMAL taser... that has nothing to do with a police officer's taser and no comparisons can be made as we dont know the specs of an animal taser or its functions.

What we do know is that

#1  Electric cattle prods dont paralyze cattle.... they drive them forward.

#2  Human tasers have a shooting function with cables that shoot out that disabled someone's body 100%

#3 Human tasers have a "Drive stun" feature similar to a cattle prod which is meant to drive someone forward not paralyze them, similar to how static electricity makes you jump.

Case Closed.

[Dante]

Actually, you haven't said anything against the fact that the UCPD gets called in only when the student volunteers can't resolve it, so he obviously wasn't "leaving peacefully" or cooperating. What can you say against that, eh? Eh? Eh?

*Sigh* I suppose this is what I get for involving myself.

And you should note that most sources have it that the man was leaving quietly, as Clemenza oh-so-modestly stated that he would, when he objected to physical contact. Given the circumstances, not having ID, this is understandable; not having an ID is not the kind of heinous crime that requires being manhandled from the room. It was only after this objection that he was tasered, started shouting, and 'making a scene.' Frankly, I would be inclined to make a scene too if someone tasered me.

Point dealt with previously. Whee.

Wishing that cops be killed is disgusting and immature.

Any more so than wishing anyone else were killed? Just a thought.

I had a look at a few taser sites. There doesn't seem to be anything about a significant different between the two forms of attacking with a taser, save that one of them fires projectiles and the other is pressed directly to the person. There does not seem to be any difference regarding purpose or whether one coerces movement while the other inhibits it. Not that it is very important. The shock and stress of having high electrical current flowing through your body could easily be enough to make people go limp.

I did find something in one of the manuals though:

In some circumstances, in susceptible people, it is conceivable that the stress and exertion of extensive repeated, prolonged, or continuous application(s) of the TASER device may contribute to cumulative exhaustion, stress, and associated medical risk(s).

So... a prone subject shouldn't be shocked too often.

[Andrew]

Ok, misread your post. Thought you meant cows don't go limp when tasered (which they shouldn't with a human taser since they are so big). But they do with the appropriate taser ;)

/ignore me  :-X

[Anathema]

Was the teenager being a needlessly uncooperative jerk? Yes.

Does what he did excuse the use of a tazer? Hell no.

Should officers be able to tazer bystanders who are only arguing with them? No way.

I'd be really worried if something like this happened at my university.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Was the teenager being a needlessly uncooperative jerk? Yes.

Does what he did excuse the use of a tazer? Hell no.

should haveficers be able to tazer bystanders who are only arguing with them? No way.

I'd be really worried if something like this happened at my university.

The only thing they could have done was:

#1 Drag him out.  ---Not really a good option because one officer touched his shoulder and thats what caused him to fall on the floor screaming in the first place.

#2 Let him lay there -- Not really an option because they cant sit there and watch him... they have their rounds to make.  Also it would be officers letting someone get away with a defiant act.

Seems like giving him a jolt should have made him move.  It would have moved any normal human being who wasnt trying to stage a protest.  The fact that this guy laid on the floor, screamed at the police , gave them suspicion that he might not be a student.  Hence worst-case scenario came into the officer's minds.  They're trained to think like that.

I'm sure if the officers knew in advanced that this guy was a psychopath student with  chip on his shoulder then they wouldnt have tased him, as it prove useless anyways and they eventually had to drag him out.  However on normal human beings who dont have anything to prove, the taser most likely works like a charm.  For example... It would only take one zap from a taser to do whatever a cop wanted me to do.  They wouldnt have to zap me 5 times.  This guy was obviously mentally ill, had a chip on his shoulder, or was bent on getting some cash from a settlement.

[Anathema]

The only thing they could have done was:

#1 Drag him out.  ---Not really a good option because one officer touched his shoulder and thats what caused him to fall on the floor screaming in the first place.

What gave you that idea?

Officers were escorting Tabatabainejad out of the computer lab when the trouble started, according to the Daily Bruin. One of the officers placed a hand on one of his arms, to which the student objected.

As a second officer approached, he repeatedly yelled "get off of me," the newspaper reported.

It was then that one of the officers shot Tabatabainejad with a stun gun, dropping him to the floor as he cried out, according to the newspaper.

#2 Let him lay there -- Not really an option because they cant sit there and watch him... they have their rounds to make.  Also it would be officers letting someone get away with a defiant act.

They're officers, they should have pulled him up and handcuffed him if necessary. If they're not trained to handle even that, they shouldn't certainly not be trusted to carry tazers, either.

According to the article Andrew posted (and another one from the university site I looked up myself) he was on his way to leave till one of the officers grabbed his arm. While I wouldn't have reacted that way, using a tazer in this case is excessive.

And threatening to tazer bystanders who are only arguing with them is also excessive.

[GUNWOUNDS]

What gave you that idea?

They're officers, they should have pulled him up and handcuffed him if necessary. If they're not trained to handle even that, they shouldn't certainly not be trusted to carry tazers, either.

According to the article Andrew posted (and another one from the university site I looked up myself) he was on his way to leave till one of the officers grabbed his arm. While I wouldn't have reacted that way, using a tazer in this case is excessive.

And threatening to tazer bystanders who are only arguing with them is also excessive.

The account i read was that an officer touched his arm and then he laid down on the ground screaming as if in protest.

The reason the bystanders were threatened is because the officers had to restore the peace.  Which in fact it did.  The young man getting hostile with the officer backed off and left the scene, therefore the threat accomplished its purpose.  The students were getting in the face of the officers and raising their voices and getting mob-like.  The last thing the officers want is some riot or altercation.  Officers are not to be treated like regular people.  You dont get in their face, disrespect them, or act hostile towards them.  An officer can ticket you for disrespecting an officer.  Go walk by one and give him the middle finger or yell in his face.  See what happens.  Simply put, officers are not regular citizens that you can do with as you please.  Their authoritarian position demands respect and compliance.  Same as a Judge in a courtroom.  Go into a courtroom and tell the judge to f*ck off.  He'll hold you in contempt of court and you'll be fined and jailed.  Lay on the ground screaming F*ck you some more... and I'll bet 5 bucks you'll get roughed up or tasered if you struggle.  Law enforcement is on another level, i know its difficult to understand.  But thats just how it is.

Guns

[Dunenewt]

Look you obviously don't have a clue what law enforcement is, except from films and computer games, so stop with this mindless posting.

That student was in obvious, and excessive pain, which is not right, and those dumbass cops repeatedly asked him to move after they paralysed him.  Those cops are not fit to be policemen, and should have many lessons before they're allowed to wear a police badge, let alone a tazer.  Sure, the student kicked up a fuss, but with police like that, wouldn't you?  I'd protest if some caveman like the ones on that video tried to shock me.

[VigilVirus]

Not really an option because they cant sit there and watch him... they have their rounds to make. 

They're campus police, they generally just sit on their asses and don't do shit. They aren't detective solving murder cases. It is very rare that they even have to deal with situations that are this "severe". This is their job - dealing with unruly students.

And don't forget, students pay to be there and police get paid for being there.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Look you obviously don't have a clue what law enforcement is, except from films and computer games, so stop with this mindless posting.

That student was in obvious, and excessive pain, which is not right, and those dumbass cops repeatedly asked him to move after they paralysed him.   Those cops are not fit to be policemen, and should have many lessons before they're allowed to wear a police badge, let alone a tazer.  Sure, the student kicked up a fuss, but with police like that, wouldn't you?  I'd protest if some caveman like the ones on that video tried to shock me.

I have an uncle who is a cop you cocky little twirp.  I dont know how cops are in England, but in America they can ticket you for disrespecting an officer.  I have had many a speeding tickets i had to pay, so i have been in courtrooms and the judges act like they are God.  One judge told a man to tuck in his shirt or he would give him a higher fine.  They have the power so you're a dumbass to give them a reason to abuse it.  They're human after all. They get angry, they have egos like the rest of us.

Dont patronize me as if i dont know about cops.  I'm trying to be lighthearted by posting funny videos and stuff because ....similar to political cartoons..... humor usually gets the point across better than anything else.

You're acting like a little brat who thinks its cool to "hate the police".  I use to be that way when i was an adolescent as well.  I use to think that it was fun to make fun of cops and disobey them.  Then i grew up.  You'll realize that too once you shed off your childish immaturity.

The guy wasnt in extreme pain or disabled... the officers get shocked by the taser themselves... it stuns you but then after a minute you're ok.  And the police said he left the station walking out as if nothing happened.  And no i wouldnt have kicked up a fuss.  I would have let the officer put his hand on my shoulder and lead me out.  I wouldnt have screamed like a little twat and pissed off someone in an authority position.  You're an idiot if you push someone that far... unless you are just trying to get some cash which this guy likely wanted.  Also YOU WERENT THERE... the cops were 2 inches form this guy... you watched it all happened on a damn phone video... your perspective is worthless.

That guy protesting was a complete f*cktard, and he deserved to get alot more... some pepperspray and a few baton smacks along with the taser woulda straightened his ass out.  NO COLLEGE SENIOR should EVER act like that.  Those cops basically gave him the beating his parents should have given him 8 years ago.  That student is a disgrace to his University should be kicked out of school for acting like that.  Screaming F-You and PATRIOT ACT!1  to law enforcement trying to do their jobs and get back home to their wives and children, just shows that this guy is immature, daff, and someone who most likely wont fit in at any workplace he tries to get employed at.  If he has such a problem with authority figures now, wait till he gets into the workforce.  This guy is a future train wreck waiting to happen.

p.s.- Newt you're the best damn flamebaiter this board has you know that  ;)

Guns

[Cyborg]

I think we just have to accept that there are very different views on law enforcement in the USA than in Europe.

Especially in Norway ( which is in Europe, in case you Americans thought something else... ), this would be a no-issue. If something like that happened, the police involved would have to consider getting a new job. The police here don't even have tasers, since it's considered a little too inhumane. ( Also, unlike in the USA, police in Norway don't have guns either. )

In Norway, every citizen pay for the police service through taxes. You pay the police to feel safe. That is, you should feel safe from law breakers, but also law breakers should feel safe! They should feel safe in the way that the police won't injure them. This way, everyone feels safe, and it actually works quite well.

( There would be an exception here if you actually injure the police, or threaten them for an excessive period of time while carrying a weapon; then they will take action to disarm you. )

Now, do you think the student in that clip felt safe?

[GUNWOUNDS]

They're campus police, they generally just sit on their asses and don't do shit. They aren't detective solving murder cases.  

Its this EXACT type of attitude that created this situation.  This guy most likely had ZERO respect for the police due to these fallacious preconceived notions and proceeed to act in such an unruly manner as to anger someone to the point of exercising their power in a forceful way. Telling an officer to "DONT F*CKING TOUCH ME" and struggling with them on the ground ......is way out of line, if someone gets an ass-kicking for this i got no sympathy for them. NONE.

Maybe if you would show people some common decency and respect, things like this wouldnt happen.  Say things like "Is there a problem officer?"   ... instead of "What the F*ck you want motherf*cker!?".   Be polite and respectful and you'll never have a problem.  If you still have a problem after being polite, then you'll have a legit case.

Really, i mean having that nasty attitude you have about cops isnt going to get you ahead in life.... so why have it?  

Same could be said for Waiters.  I could have a nasty attitude about waiters and think they are good for nothing pieces of sh!t who are there to SERVE ME.  So i could be rude and nasty to them.... but you know what?  They can go in the back and piss in my lobster bisque, or rub my salmon filet against the trash can liner.  Yes the waiter has power over my food... so i ALWAYS treat them with the utmost respect, because they are people too and they have some degree of control over my food.  I treat cops with respect for the very same reason.... they have power in aspects of my life so i treat them accordingly.

Same goes for cops.... you give them a hard time and they'll give you a hard time.  Its just ignorant to push it.  Pissing off a cop is like pissing off your mechanic before he services your car or pissing off your waiter before he prepares your food. The only reason people disobey cops and disrespect them is because its the "young and trendy" thing to do and because this country is so litigious that you can sue for anything.

Guns

[GUNWOUNDS]

I think we just have to accept that there are very different views on law enforcement in the USA than in Europe.

Especially in Norway ( which is in Europe, in case you Americans thought something else... ), this would be a no-issue. If something like that happened, the police involved would have to consider getting a new job. The police here don't even have tasers, since it's considered a little too inhumane. ( Also, unlike in the USA, police in Norway don't have guns either. )

In Norway, every citizen pay for the police service through taxes. You pay the police to feel safe. That is, you should feel safe from law breakers, but also law breakers should feel safe! They should feel safe in the way that the police won't injure them. This way, everyone feels safe, and it actually works quite well.

( There would be an exception here if you actually injure the police, or threaten them for an excessive period of time while carrying a weapon; then they will take action to disarm you. )

Now, do you think the student in that clip felt safe?

The way you describe law enforcement to me seems somewhat contradictory.  You pay the police to make you FEEL safe.  Yet you dont properly equip them police to actually carry out that duty.  In America we dont pay police to make us FEEL safe... we pay them and equip them to MAKE us safe... not to FEEL safe.  I'm most likely biased here, but i feel that law enforcement in Norway seems to be an illusion.  From your description, it sounds like all of your Police Officers are nothing more than the American equivalent of a Security Guard.  Our security guards carry nothing more than a flashlight and phone.  Their job is to spot trouble and then call in the real cops.  I truly wonder how your Police Officers function.  I mean if one crook gets a handgun and all of the cops in your area have no weapons.  Whats to stop them from getting gunned down? 

Dont get me wrong.... i understand you can tackle many cases with retraining moves, handcuffs, and batons... but what do you do in the more severe cases?

Guns

[GUNWOUNDS]

Check this out

http://www.noolmusic.com/blogs/Accidents_Crash_Explosions_Fight_Chase_-_Guy_Gets_Beat_Up_For_Flicking_Off_a_Cop.shtml

[Cyborg]

Hehe, actually, if a crook has a gun, the policemen have to send an application ( to the authorities; their authorities... ) to ask if they can use a gun. In the meantime, a gun desperado, for instance, is held up by verbal communication ( or whatever way possible ), mostly. I don't know if people are just very nice in Norway, but it is very uncommon for police to be shot...

And don't twist the meaning of my words, Gunwounds... By saying 'feel safe', I mean the safest you can get. I don't think Americans are any safer than Norwegians even though your law enforcers are equipped with deadlier tools.

Most criminals in Norway can be dealt with using hand cuffs. The rest, which are very, very few, require some more violent action, but we don't let those few let the rest be mistreated.

Also, I find it interesting that you made the reference to cattle when describing the taser. Just because tasing a cattle makes it go away, doesn't mean that a human will act the same way. I don't know, but in Norway, humans don't walk around on all four eating grass either, so we are very unlike cattle in our behavior.

Check this out

http://www.noolmusic.com/blogs/Accidents_Crash_Explosions_Fight_Chase_-_Guy_Gets_Beat_Up_For_Flicking_Off_a_Cop.shtml

I've seen that, and I believe that policeman should be extremely happy that he isn't Norwegian at least... ( Although I think it's very amusing to watch. :P )