Complaining about books you haven't read

[Purge]

I'll be the first to admit that these guys (Anderson and Herb Jr.) obviously aren't as philisophical and as broad as Frank Herbet when it comes to writing.  Frank was able to write sentences that could be interpreted to mean ten different things, and present ten different scenarios.

However, I think the negatives attributed to them are largely overstated, and definitely don't represent the thinking of most people I know who've read all the novels (Frank's and Brian's respectively).

I see a ton of complaints on this site, and not surprisingly they almost always begin with "I read the first half of Butlerian Jihad, and couldn't read another page or book after that".  It's so preposterous.

Are their inconsistencies?  I'm sure there are.  However, one of the reoccuring lessons throughout the original Dune is that history is in the hands of the victor.  The problem is, when there's inconsistencies in Frank's novels it's attributed to the "lesson" above, while when there are "inconsistencies" between Dune and Brian's, rather than search for something to link what is perceived as an inconsistency, you get all lazy and just choose to crap on it.

It's pretty funny considering most Dune fans I've met pride themselves on attacking things from all angles and probabilities.

It seems to me a lot of what people claim to be huge inconsistencies are actually explained in the books that the complainers claim to have not read entirely.  You make note of all the "overexplaining" - such as Xavier and Serena's love - and completely gloss over things you aren't ready to concede.

Example: I've seen complaints that Dune says the Emperor was on the battle fields for the Battle of Corrin, yet the book BoC explains that he was merely present for the battle, but from afar in space.  Completely glossed over is the fact that the eventual Corrino makes it a point to have history revised to include him as a bigger part of the battle.

I love the original Dune series, and these extra books may not have meant anything if Dune wasn't there first.  But I completely disagree with the notion that they are useless and for the purpose of putting money in the pocket of his son.  I think they have added a lot of depth, and while they wouldn't have meant anything without the first, they expand on many things the first never explained.

These conspiracy theories lead me to believe that some of you often forget to remove yourselves from the world of fiction before lashing out.  They are just absurd.

Something to remember is that we are all speculating.  It's all we can do.  I hate to be redundant, but the only people who know where Dune is/was going are those who know where Dune is/was going.

You can choose to believe that said knowledge is absent to the current writers, but personally, I'm more likely to believe the man with Frank's blood coarsing through him, then some fanboys on the internet who spit on this work because it doesn't jive with THEIR preconceived vision of where Dune should have gone.

If you don't want to accept the new work as canon, that's cool, don't.  But realize you don't speak for all of us, and that your attempts to demonize Frank's son come off as desperate and ridiculous.

[Egeides]

No one answered, you give it importance, and I do give see some point in "seeing litterature as it is". Anyone finds irritating when lies float around. Here's my idea from what I know, take what you want:

What I saw of Fed2k posts:

Many read Brian. For some others, they might not read a dozen of book after not liking enough the author's earlier production. No need to read the whole DONTREMEMBER collection to see it's not Tolkien.

Many look little at the author's blood if they saw the actual product.

Some observe more Frank's setting, some others the ideas/caracter style/else. Brian might please more those wanting to get more books within the setting.

As for conspiracy theories, well I guess there are these kinds of inefficiencies as anytime the info is unreliable, full of half-truths and smoke. In unreliable area, giving a "they're right" by default seems as bad as the opposite.

As for myself:

I see such books like all the books written in Tolkien's world with other authors' material. Many appreciated them anyway, but no need to say that Tolkien would have seen this in his world. Too many lies were served to those who love Frank's litterature. Many are offuscated of a pattern of "written based on marketting figures then written - and then said to be done the other way round for Dune".

Loving the books is not prohibited, wether or not they are "Frank's idea" (cannon?). But no need to say they are Frank material neither. Have a good read anyway, while some wanting to see more of Herbert's world/ideas might go towards what Herbert read.

[exatreide]

I can say that I have read them all, and I can say that they all mostly suck. :)

[Dante]

Hmm, yet another prequel supporter who wanders blithely in and starts off making a great first impression by telling us how silly we are. There are so many of these guys coming out of the woodwork that I'm starting to suspect there's only one person out there; one who just keeps making new accounts and repeating himself until someone pays attention.

Of course this is, as the original topic starter pointed out, speculation.

I read the books. With the exception of the last few chapters of Corrin. They sucked. Big time. There is little more to add.

[Andrew]

I'm sure this can be said about some prequel haters (it seems the prequel supporters all refer to the ones who said the house series prequels sucked before they were even released).

However, I think the negatives attributed to them are largely overstated, and definitely don't represent the thinking of most people I know who've read all the novels (Frank's and Brian's respectively).

Well, if people didn't like the first Jihad book, I don't really see how they would like the other two (Do they get better in your opinion, so much that they are worth reading if you hated the first one?).

I see a ton of complaints on this site, and not surprisingly they almost always begin with "I read the first half of Butlerian Jihad, and couldn't read another page or book after that".  It's so preposterous.

I've read all the Dune books except Battle of Corrin and Road to Dune. I OWN Battle of Corrin, but han't finished it because I cant even get by the first couple of chapters without getting bored with it.

And I'm not expecting it to be any better than the first 2 Jihad books I OWN and read (only read them once each).

So I am not one of those people who dislike the prequels and have not read them. There is nothing wrong with giving opinions on books you have read, whether they be positive or negative.

The worst part of the Jihad prequels is that they market them that they needed to be written/read in order to tell the story of Dune 7 (and now 8 ). Knowing them, they will probably retell what we needed to know from the Jihad books, so no need to read them anyway.

[Purge]

Hmm, yet another prequel supporter who wanders blithely in and starts off making a great first impression by telling us how silly we are. There are so many of these guys coming out of the woodwork that I'm starting to suspect there's only one person out there; one who just keeps making new accounts and repeating himself until someone pays attention.

Of course this is, as the original topic starter pointed out, speculation.

I read the books. With the exception of the last few chapters of Corrin. They sucked. Big time. There is little more to add.

How else would I come in here?  Should I be nervous and timid?  I read all of the same books everyone else here has access to.  And accusing me of being someone else because my opinion doesn't jive with your's?  Like I said, while I've heard minor complaints from people I know who have read these (and Frank's) books, I've never heard anything close to the negativity shown towards them on here.  The feeling on here simply isn't indicative of the overall feeling towards these books.

In fact, from my point of view it's you all that seem to be spouting the same stuff over and over.  So at least we can agree that those with your view and those with my view obviously have differing opinions, and can thus cut out the accusatory BS.

Don't take offense to what I said unless it applies to you.  If you've read the books and don't like them, that is well within your rights.  If that's the case this thread doesn't apply to you.

My problem is with the tons of posts I've seen while skimming this site that begin with "I haven't read" and end with "I don't like."  Not to mention the people that try to justify their dislike of the books by coming up with these off-the-wall conspiracy theories about the guy's son and his maliciousness toward his father.

Andrew,

I'm not talking about the people who said it sucked before they were released.  I'm talking about the posts on this site that trash the two series' while acknowledging not having read them.

Now, it is my opinion that they get better, but that's neither here nor there.  The bottom line is you can't accurately judge something you haven't read or experienced.

I have no problem with people that don't like the books voicing their opinions.

I do, however, have a problem with people judging things they aren't read up on.

Hopefully we're clear now.

[Egeides]

Just like people liking Dungeon&Dragon and reading every "epic fantasy" with elves and such, there's some phenomenon here. Or as with Arthurian litterature, spanning on so many years (and including very different styles). Maybe some would be interested in discovering what's in Frank's books if they have reasons to think "older" fans have some good quality of that.

So I guess that for them there's more than good/bad; from desert people, wars and a different Mankind setting, some might find something in Frank's Dune. Opposite of me I guess, but each gets his material.

I kind of wonder what views some of them have of the Duniverse and what's in it... if a few get further than posting "Dune vs. Dune". Welcome around Purge ;D

PS: People around here tend to be more demanding when it comes to content, and less on form. This might be because they create the form inside them, so to speak. "Ideas as art".

If Brian&Anderson are more form oriented, to the extent demanded by offer/demand rather than the litterature itself, then it is not exactly Frank's niche market. And some here react (from what they have) to their claims about that. Like if Arthurian poets of following styles were claiming to bring De Troyes' Lancelot to readers.

[Dante]

How else would I come in here? Should I be nervous and timid? 

You should be respectful. Most of the time, so are we.

I read all of the same books everyone else here has access to. And accusing me of being someone else because my opinion doesn't jive with your's? 

I didn't accuse, I speculated. And you aren't the first person I've suggested that about. nessus87, jros83, to an extent jmoussa1987... All arrive, all say something about the prequels, all disappear just as quickly. Whether yourself and freeman exhibit this behaviour remains to be seen. If I were the paranoid sort, I might think that NeoDevilbane had something to do with this.

Like I said, while I've heard minor complaints from people I know who have read these (and Frank's) books, I've never heard anything close to the negativity shown towards them on here. The feeling on here simply isn't indicative of the overall feeling towards these books.

Obviously not, or they authors wouldn't have been able to publish any more, would they?

This is a Dune site. One of the largest on the internet. And as far as I am aware, most of us that have read the Legends found them to be, in a word, revolting. That has to count for something.

In fact, from my point of view it's you all that seem to be spouting the same stuff over and over.  So at least we can agree that those with your view and those with my view obviously have differing opinions, and can thus cut out the accusatory BS.

You're making accusations now, aren't you? I've never accused you of anything. I've accused the prequel authors of many things; mostly being terrible writers and incorrigible liars. But not you.

Don't take offense to what I said unless it applies to you. If you've read the books and don't like them, that is well within your rights.  If that's the case this thread doesn't apply to you.

This is a forum. People discuss things. Put forward an opinion and people will respond. I only avoid threads that bore me or become too personal.

My problem is with the tons of posts I've seen while skimming this site that begin with "I haven't read" and end with "I don't like."  Not to mention the people that try to justify their dislike of the books by coming up with these off-the-wall conspiracy theories about the guy's son and his maliciousness toward his father.

To quote myself from a few threads ago...

I have already made my opinions on this matter more than clear. Don't get me started again.

The links there give a more or less valid depiction. However, if you don't want to follow them all, I shall summarise:

1: I have read the prequels, except for about a tenth of Corrin.

2: I don't need to justify my hatred of the prequels by trying to demonise the authors. It is perfectly possible to write a bad book and be a good person, and vice versa.

3: The prequels, especially the Legends series, sucked.

4: The authors forbade further publishing of the Dune Encyclopaedia, declared it non-canon, and refused Dr McNelly's offer of aid. This makes them bad people.

5: Their whole story about finding Frank Herbert's notes is implausible. And without any proof (besides a disk with 'notes' written on it), that is how it shall remain.

6: I have never accused Brian Herbert of hating his father.

Quote the people who said they haven't read. I can't think of many here who would argue without some basis from which to launch their points.

Andrew,

I'm not talking about the people who said it sucked before they were released.  I'm talking about the posts on this site that trash the two series' while acknowledging not having read them.

Now, it is my opinion that they get better, but that's neither here nor there.  The bottom line is you can't accurately judge something you haven't read or experienced.

I have no problem with people that don't like the books voicing their opinions.

I do, however, have a problem with people judging things they aren't read up on.

Hopefully we're clear now.

Who here has said that? I am perhaps the most vitriolic detractor of the prequels, and I have read them all. Apart from a few chapters of Corrin (I'm just going to stop clarifying that and hope that people remember in future. I've repeated it enough times...). I've certainly heard people referring to opinions like that, but never actually come across any.

[Timenn]

Purge, I know that there some people here who like to seize all oppertunities to express their dislike for the new Dune novels. However, I've been around this site for quite some years and I know that these people did read the novels and aren't just being biased about them.

I only think they express their dislikes too often, it gets a little repetitive. But besides that, their points of criticism are always backed up by arguments and aren't just wild accusations.

Also there are plenty of people here who have read the new Dune novels and enjoyed them to a certain level, like me (actually, I thought House Atreides would be a good book, if it wasn't that one of the major plotlines seemed a direct rip-off of Star Trek VI) though I stopped reading them after The Butlerian Jihad.

Don't forget that every fictional universe has its die-hard fanbase. And such fans always tend to be very skeptic about new sources.

[erjin999]

...Like I said, while I've heard minor complaints from people I know who have read these (and Frank's) books, I've never heard anything close to the negativity shown towards them on here.  The feeling on here simply isn't indicative of the overall feeling towards these books.

Has it occured to you that the people you spoke to, who generally liked those books, gave you an opinion that "simply isn't indicative of the overall feeling towards these books"...

Could it be that you spoke to a few people who loved it when in the real world most people dont ? How can you say that a particular opinion is the majority without some kind of survey ?

Heck, I havent even read the books and probably will never, but that statement of yours above just jumped out at me as being way wrong.

By the way, I hate the books even though I havent read them :P

[driftingcloud]

My problem is with the tons of posts I've seen while skimming this site that begin with "I haven't read" and end with "I don't like." 

I don't remember ever reading any posts here such as the above, let alone enough that would qualify as "tons of posts." Ok, there is Re-erjin999's post just before mine,  but that is the first one that I have read expressing an opinion about the books without having read them. I wonder how far back into the archives you might be digging?

Not to mention the people that try to justify their dislike of the books by coming up with these off-the-wall conspiracy theories about the guy's son and his maliciousness toward his father.

Can't remember reading that one either.

I know I have purged my dislike for the prequels here on more than one occasion, but sometimes ya just gotta vent. Beyond that, I like the discussions that expand the Duniverse and the relationships between various characters and factions. There is so much more of that on this site than the little bits of griping here and there.

[Crysknife]

I have read every stinking book KJA and Brian have put out.  I have read a wide range of sci-fi books both popular and obscure.  I have read the best of them all....the Dune Chronicles.  And I can tell you that the prequels are the most horrid drivel I have ever come across.  I am actually sick of writing about it.  I am also active on many Dune forums and I can tell you that the majority of people I have come across agree with me.  I put the prequels in the bottom 5% of all sci-fi books ever published.  That's a pretty wide gap when we're supposedly talking about the same universe as the best books ever.  And it's not just the writing; it's the ideas of the authors and the motives of the characters in their crappy 2 dimensional books.

Perhaps it is just the online community that feels this way.  We can be pretty overbearing when it comes to defending Dune.  Maybe we just scare the hell outta the people that like the pres.  If you like, them that's your opinion, but it's also our right to not like them and to tell you how and why and where KJA can stick them.

[Purge]

Has it occured to you that the people you spoke to, who generally liked those books, gave you an opinion that "simply isn't indicative of the overall feeling towards these books"...

Could it be that you spoke to a few people who loved it when in the real world most people dont ? How can you say that a particular opinion is the majority without some kind of survey ?

Heck, I havent even read the books and probably will never, but that statement of yours above just jumped out at me as being way wrong.

By the way, I hate the books even though I havent read them :P

No, as I've said, I'm just now finding this online Dune community.  I'm talking about people "in the real world".  Older people who were adults when the originals came out, and slightly younger people that were kids or teens when the origs came out. These reactions to the books on here are nothing like that I've seen from all the Dune fanatics I've known and come into contact with who have continued on with the two new series.

Anyway, like I said, I could care less if you've read them and want to vent on them.  I'm going to reiterate again that this thread was directed at all the posts I saw talking about not bothering past Jihad and such, and yet talking about continuity problems that you'd have to have read on further to connect.

I'm not gonna go back and look for a link to them all just to prove they exist.  They are scattered throughout this board, and I saw them as I was browsing.  If you want to think it's balogne, so be it.  I wouldn't have bothered making a comment on it if it was something I just made up in my head.

Anyway, we're all Dune fans.  Some of us only accept certain parts, others accept more of the universe, and we're free to do so.  Nobody but Frank, and most likely his son and wife, knew where he was going with this.

I dug the two series' and liked the depth they added to the Dune universe.  I dig the encyclopedia, because even if some things are off, "History is the victor's to mold" is a common theme in Dune, and inconsistencies can just as easily add to the overall theme and feel.

[gunner154]

The feeling on here simply isn't indicative of the overall feeling towards these books.

You think.

Anyway, like I said, I could care less if you've read them and want to vent on them.  I'm going to reiterate again that this thread was directed at all the posts I saw talking about not bothering past Jihad and such, and yet talking about continuity problems that you'd have to have read on further to connect.

Ha. Dante has already said that this is a forum. We are here to discuss things. Go ahead and say that we who refuse to touch the scourge of books and yet comment negatively on it are myopic or anything. You won't be getting really far, because not everybody wishes to be put through the crap that they would be spending their precious time on. To begin with, I sympathise with (but not empathise!) whoever on this forum has touched these books. Besides, not all of us know nothing about the prequels. Just hearing snippets of it being mentioned in other threads already gives us a pretty bad impression of his prequels. Anyway, even if you have us read them, would you expect us to change our stand? My faith in BH is in the drain, or maybe it's already voided altogether.

Go ahead and dispute me. This is my opinion.

Anyway, we're all Dune fans.  Some of us only accept certain parts, others accept more of the universe, and we're free to do so.  Nobody but Frank, and most likely his son and wife, knew where he was going with this.

Exactly. So why are you haranguing at us? That's double standards.

"History is the victor's to mold" is a common theme in Dune, and inconsistencies can just as easily add to the overall theme and feel.

Just because history if the victor's to mold doesn't mean the author can simply manipulate the past as he wishes, unless he is the original author of that part of history. And Brian isn't anywhere close to being that part of history. He only wrote his version of the history, but ah, you would actually declare HIM as VICTOR? I can't even imagine I'm placing the word 'Victor' (in a positive sense) in a sentence describing him.

Heck, we don't worship DE. It's just something to bear in mind. We don't regard it as the gospel truth of Duniverse, but it's something to bear in mind because FH endorsed it.

[Purge]

I have no desire to change anyone's stance.  If you don't want to read and accept the other books you obviously don't have to.  But you're really not equipped to judge the books if you haven't read them.  You obviously can choose to, but it's uninformed.  And I'm sure you've made peace with that.

Once again, if you've read them then this doesn't apply to you.  That's not to say, as has been misconstrued, that you can't post or respond in this thread.  I welcome all responses.  It literally means that the crux of this thread wasn't directed at you.

Hopefully this is clear now.

And you are misreading what I'm saying about history being in the hands of the victor.  I'm not saying Brian is the victor, I don't know what he would be the victor of.  The fact is, these books are told from the perspective of their characters.  Characters capable of being wrong.  In a universe where information is shaped by those in power.

The Dune Encyclopedia is full of stuff that is either inconsistent or just flat out wrong based on Frank's work.  It was written as a historical document within the Dune universe.

Like I said, I love the 'Cyc, but I'm not personally gonna write off the two new sets just because some things don't jive completely with something that was written as an account of history from within the Universe. Written in character.

If you choose to, that is cool.  I can't stress enough that I have no problem with people picking and choosing what they want to include in their idea of the universe.

I'm not gonna sit here and look down on you because you didn't like the books.  I have little regard for people who judge things they know little of, but reading and interpreting is the beauty of reading, and it would be foolish of me to try to argue someone who HAS read them out of their point of view.

[Andrew]

I was thinking of making a poll, but probably wont until after Gob makes the new site as I would assume he would have a poll about the new looks. And in this poll people could comment on what they thought of the books, be it good or bad. Then we can put this whole thing behind us or into one thread instead of every week or 2 having a new thread made about the prequels being good/bad.

How do you rate the prequels?

Great! - Enjoyed them all

Terrible! - Disliked them all

House series good, Jihad bad - Enjoyed house series, didn't like Jihad series

House series bad, Jihad good - Disliked house series, Enjoyed like Jihad series

I read the first prequel and didn't bother reading the rest - thought first one was crappy, so assume the rest are crappy or similar to first one.

I didn't read any - Eithor because you simply didn't want to, didn't get around to it, or you heard they were bad, or didn't want to ruin the original Dune feel.

Any options missing or need to be edited? (note the - blah blah blah text wont be in poll option, I just put it there to describe the option.)

Don't bother answering the poll here, a poll will be made when the right time comes. Then you can vote/discuss it.

[gunner154]

Sorry, if I've misinterpreted whatever you've said. But even so, it's not exactly very difficult to think of it as:

1.) Boycotting because they've mutilated FH's legacy. Considering the greatness of FH's legacy, this is beyond being justified.

2.) We don't want to have any new, warped ideas about what Dune should be.

[Dunenewt]

Aren't those two the same things?

[gunner154]

Nope. One deals with the principle behind mutilation, which is unjustified. The other is that we don't want to be affected by this mutilation.

[Sober]

(A little late but I don't think it matters here)

I've read all 3 prequels and the 3 BJ novels. Seriously, I'll let the BJ novels go for now, though I'm pretty sure FH intended the Jihad to be more than a simple "they're killin us, let's kill em back" space drama. Sure, I like my Star Wars, but, c'mon, it's Dune.

Prequels were big boo-boos in my opinion, nothing just really came together with the originals - style and consistancy/continuity-wise.

I'm not a "DE = fact" guy either (if you're making that case; really, it's 3 AM as I type this). I've never accepted the DE as canon - it's how you put it, just a primary source document in the Duniverse. Prequels aren't my thing unless BH&KJA shows us these lost notes from Frank. Plus, I've only read the prequels/legends once for the sake of finishing it. That's about it.

[Kalas]

To those who believe Brian Herbert is doing this to line his own pockets:

What son would purposefully ruin his father's legacy? (Leto II doesn't count) It's a fair guess that Brain loved his father, and he's not trying to profiteer off his memory.

Honestly, I enjoyed the prequels and the BJ books. Sure, they weren't as good as the originals, and how could you possibly expect them to be? It's not like FH caliber authors are a dime a dozen! For God's sake he's one of the most beloved authors of all time! How would you feel if your career was comprised of trying to live up to your father? Give poor Brian a break!

Brian and Kevin did the best they could guys! And they didn't do a bad job, they just didn't do a Frank job.

And one more thing, didn't Frank's books show us that devoting ourselves to one way of thinking and taking the easy way out leads 'ever down into stagnation?'

If you don't like the prequels, it's your loss, but if you really like the Duniverse, I don't see a reason to tear it in half.

[Andrew]

I'm just bitter because I bought all 3 jihad prequels as they were released but by the time I bought the 3rd one I had enough of that story. I havn't read the last jihad book yet and it is sitting 3 feet away from me (I read about 20 pages then got bored).

Personal preferences I guess.

[Egeides]

What son would purposefully ruin his father's legacy? (Leto II doesn't count) It's a fair guess that Brain loved his father, and he's not trying to profiteer off his memory.

Honestly, I enjoyed the prequels and the BJ books. Sure, they weren't as good as the originals, and how could you possibly expect them to be? It's not like FH caliber authors are a dime a dozen! For God's sake he's one of the most beloved authors of all time! How would you feel if your career was comprised of trying to live up to your father? Give poor Brian a break!

Brian and Kevin did the best they could guys! And they didn't do a bad job, they just didn't do a Frank job.

Frank said that he was writing primarily for entertainment, and so I guess that his son might take the idea and just write anything he finds entertaining, whether it's a total lie that it has to do with some given "Frank's legacy" or not.

The fact is that what he wrote fits a pattern of literature written to sell better etc etc. Whatever what I would expect from a son, I can see here that he does not react how I would expect.

You can love the prequels, I have no problem with that. What tends more to bring a sarcastic smile on my face is from some things related to those, like some overdone marketting lies and whatnot. Tolkien's son, in contrast, apparently directly and honestly said that the money factor did count, and this is perfectly understandable by me.

[Dante]

Brian and Kevin did the best they could guys! And they didn't do a bad job, they just didn't do a Frank job.

Oh but they did do a bad job. The House books were forgivable, but the 'Legends' series? It was a train wreck in three parts.

I like to point out that I don't think that Brian Herbert hated his father or deliberately sought to usurp or destroy his legacy. I think that he honestly wanted to make the best of an excellent series and continue it in a similar, if not quite the same manner. He wanted to make a profit, yes, but he also wanted what was best for the books, his father's memory, and the fans.

Unfortunately, he failed. And not just failed in the sense of "oh, that was disappointing" but failed in the sense of "ye gods what is this muck? I could put a rabid baboon with diahorreah on a trampoline in a crazy elevator and he would smear a better plot than this on the walls!"

(I also don't think they ever had Frank Herbert's notes. Ever. At all. In any sense of the word)

Now if Brian Herbert had written a passable 'Legends' series, even one that wasn't as good as Frank Herbert's writing, then that might have been ok. We'd have been diappointed, but not angry. Had they made even a slight effort to accomodate the Encyclopaedia, even if not bow to it as canon, then we might have accepted that the authors were prepared to acknowledge the hard work and imagination of those who came before them. Had they released Frank Herbert's notes, some form of legitimacy might have surrounded their efforts.

As it is, the prequels have been nothing short of a catalogue of errors and insults. 'The best they could do' wasn't only not good enough, it was stinking.

Thing is, I like to think that I'm fair in my dislike of the prequels. I accept that, as a reader, I don't own any right to the books or what they should contain. I also accept that my opinion is just that, and that others are entitled to their own as much as I am mine. And I am quite aware that writing banal, insulting, incomprehensably bad drivel does not make the authors bad people, or somehow suggest that they had anything but good intentions.

Be that as it may, they are truly awful books that do not in any way deserve to be part of the Dune series. That's the crux.

I tend to get a bit worked up about this. You can tell from the repetition and desire to ensure that every detail of the argument is noted so that there can be no misunderstanding. There usually is anyway, but what the heck. It's not like this is my first little rant about the prequels. It surely won't be the last.

[Kalas]

I think it's rather unfair to compare Brian and Frank, Frank's books are undoubtedly far superior, I agree wholeheartedly with that, but if you do not compare the works of the father to the works of the son you'll find the prequels aren't that bad within themselves.