DEMO 3 - (Released!)

[Elec]

  Even more files to Demo2 ...

[attachment deleted by Gobalopper]

[stefanhendriks]

ok, erm, but there is already demo 3... ;)

[vidiware]

demo3 uploaded to vidiware.com, the official (at least the first) mirror for D2TM: Add-Ons :P

http://www.vidiware.com/dune2.html

if you for some reason want the older files:

http://www.vidiware.com/downloads/d2tm-demo1.zip

http://www.vidiware.com/downloads/d2tm-demo2.zip

[stefanhendriks]

@Elec,

Though i tried to joke around about demo 3/demo 2. You DO point out a lot of things that are still in demo 3 and things that will polish it further for sure!

About credits listing, i will try to add as many members who have contributed, though i do search for a test team since the D2TM team currently cannot fulfil this job. If you are interested (or anybody else), just contact me by private messaging or send an e-mail to stefanhen83@planet.nl

[Andrew]

The "P" on a building means it is the primary building where the units will come out of right (as shown in one of the images)?

Hope to see load/save soon. I don't enjoy having to start over when I'm done playing :P

EDIT: why does a soldier always appear outside my barracks even though I didn't make him?

When im selecting a territory to attack, is there any difference in map in which territory?

I also get text going off the screen. Also in this screenshot, the word "don't" ' character not right. 2nd harkonnen mission I think.

Also, when I moved a group of units to bottom of map, the soldiers are unseclectable. (but luckily I had them numbered). Also the graphics of them is cut off some.

How do I deploy MCV?

Some enemy infantry shot at my turret and it immediatly spewed smoke. Probably should not do that.

Is it possible to press f for framrate and have it stay up? then press f again to turn it off?

My rocket launchers dont seem to defend themselves from turrets (building). They are being attacked, but just sit there. Same thing happens when a trike attacked my refinery. My guess is that it does this so we know which buildings are being damaged?

When I select group 1 (pressing 1), it also selects enemy units (a trike).

I also noticed I was able to see what ordos was building. It is stuck there and doesn't change/go away.

Rocket turrets work when there is no power.

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[heavy trooper]

Hi Stefan!

First of all, congratulations on the new Demo! It exceeded my expectations by far!

Playing is now so much fun!

But there are a few things i noticed:

- the infantry gun-sounds are annoying when an army of 10 infantry-squads attacks your base

  perhaps there can be added a little bit of diversity

- as already mentioned, harvesters behave strange, but this was already mentionend in earlier

  posts

- when I built heavy troopers in the Atreides 2nd Level, the came out the WOR already having been   

  assigned "group 2" (command would normally be: ctrl-2). Is this on intent?

- I think harvesters should be able to avoid running over spice plumes, as they are "experts in 

  spice", this would be nice

- On the "Select next Conquest"-map, the fields are blinking simultaniously, but as soon as I put

  my cursor over one of the field, they are not synchronized any more... Intentionally?

Thanx for such a great game!  :)

Keep up the good work!

[stefanhendriks]

Hi Stefan!

First of all, congratulations on the new Demo! It exceeded my expectations by far!

Playing is now so much fun!

But there are a few things i noticed:

...

- On the "Select next Conquest"-map, the fields are blinking simultaniously, but as soon as I put

  my cursor over one of the field, they are not synchronized any more... Intentionally?

Thanx for such a great game!  :)

Keep up the good work!

Yes, this was intentionally, but most people think its a bug. I can 'fix' it though.

Thanks for the comments and trying it out. Its time to get more diverse also game-play wise! :)

[DuneFan]

They're something if possible i will like you to change or add

is the units are moving everytimes somebody approach and for me this is annoying in the original they stay they're and don't move so is it possible to just put a guard command to units so they stay in place not moving...

Thank you...

[stefanhendriks]

You mean stand ground? ;) Like the units will shoot a sandworm but not chase it? Yeah, that would be easy to do.

[vidiware]

Different stuff:

I was able to add troops to the starport order after the "frigat has arrived". Wich made me get more units.

The starport doesn't have any build limits.

The starport frigate is selectable (and movable), the shipment is not delivered if you move it.

Btw. The troopers are TOO powerful (especially the tripple one). You should concider making them weaker in attack or lower the health. Lower health would be more realistic.

[DuneFan]

stefan wrote:

You mean stand ground?

Yes, exactly

and not moving when others units approach....

Thank you...

[Andrew]

Yah, I like to have my units lined up in a good defense formation and stay that way. Currently, whenever the enemy attacks my units move to attack them before they are in firing range. And they end up going into the enemy base if not watched.

[The_Beast]

at the moment it takes 10 rocket tower cannon bullet to kill a atredies trike, thi isn't really normal.

I was stuck a mission 9 playing ordos with no more harvester ( prehaps because i add build some carryall )?

why a troopers squad is more powerfull than a combat tank? i think eaven a single tropper can kill a tank.

i just observed somthing, all dune 2 units don't make a lot of damage, so when you increased the damage of troopers. I just discovred that all the dune 2 unit do weak damage, so if you want to bounce up infantry ( this is a good idea ) all the other units sould be tweaked (firepower, rate, speed, hp) to balance the whole stuff. Why don't balance the dune 2 units to make them more realistic and give to each of them weakness and strength.

in my opignon the new balancement to deviators make them to week, don't forget that ordos can only buy missile tank with starport.

This is a lot to discuss here, but mostly some test have to be set to obtain more equivalence in the units strength.

[Andrew]

Sometimes when I create a group, then tell it to move somewheres, not all of the units move to that location. they do not move at all.

My units do not auto attack enemy turrets when there are no other enemy units around.

If an enemy unit is surrounded by buildings, my ubits will not attack it (go after it) if out of range. I did this with my missle tanks.

I just saw an enemy spice harvestor at the top of the screen, above where you cant see him, but i could see his shadow, then he came out.

Also cant see building health when building at top of the screen.

After winning harkonnen last battle, it told me to pick a region to choose. I cant pick them.

I wasn't able to place a building in a certain spot (in first pic). I think this occured when an enemy orni was floying overhead adn I placed concrete slab there. It also probably dropped off enemy soldiers, but didnt because I placed the concrete slab.

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[stefanhendriks]

at the moment it takes 10 rocket tower cannon bullet to kill a atredies trike, thi isn't really normal.

I was stuck a mission 9 playing ordos with no more harvester ( prehaps because i add build some carryall )?

why a troopers squad is more powerfull than a combat tank? i think eaven a single tropper can kill a tank.

The troopers can take out a tank, because a tank is not anti trooper and the trooper is anti-tank ;) So if you only have a few tanks to defend your base, then you're doomed! :)

I will look into that 'place slab' thing , as orni's should not block things to build, and a frigate should ofcourse not be selectable! :)

[gunner154]

I'm fine with a trooper mob of 3 decimating a tank. But 2 or 3 tanks?

But perhaps it does make things a bit more realistic (although I find tanks able to decimate any infantry in Battlefield 2). At least I now build tons of infantry to defend against those trooper drops.

Also, I couldn't run enemy troopers over with the tanks. Has this been implemented yet?

[Swordmaster_Duncan]

I have never understood the whole anti-tank, anti-infantry weapons. I understand the tactical reason for them (that being that it would only take one accurate bullet to incapacitate a soldier, and one decent blast to incapacitate a vehicle), but three troopers taking out multiple tanks seems a bit tough... I suppose you could say they just had shields on... :P

[DuneFan]

when i read Josh post i gave me an idea for tank with shields tech....

So when you have the IX house you could build in heavy factory a thank with shield technology so you would just add anothers graph bar for the shields then hull platting....

Just and idea what do you think........

[stefanhendriks]

well shields give me an idea.

Lets say, troopers have super-anti-tank missiles. But... you can protect your tanks by using a shield (by pressing S or something). The tanks will be less damaged, but they will attract sandworms a lot. Ok, so on rock this will be a bit 'unfair' however, it does attract worms to your base, getting outragious and eating all other units on sand (and spice, ie, your harvesters). Making it not an easy decision to just turn on the shields?

Just brainstorming.. ;)

[MrFlibble]

I thought about the shileds, this part is very tricky. According to the book, all the tank/missile/machinegun stuff is useless in Dune universe because of the Holtzman generators that create a field capable of deflecting any projectiles and most fast melee weapon blows. However, shields cannot be used on Dune, as activating a shield in the desert immediately draws all worms to it, and the worms eat everything they encounter. So vehicles and men on Dune are not protected by shields. On the other hand, the vibrations produced by vehicle movement attracts worms as well, although it is not as dangerous as with shileds. Here's where the caryyalls come in to secure the vehicles.

Therefore, shields are of little use, IMHO. They still can be used on rock, but mind that a shielded vehicle is actually invulnerable to any weapons present in Dune II, and a generator can maintain shields of any imaginable size for a serious period of time, unless a sandstorm disrupts a shield. No technical means exist in Dune universe to nullify a shield, although it is theoretically possible.

If we want to add shields, this will basically demand a full reengineering of battle mechanics and gameplay, including the addition of totally new units, weapons and structures. To put it short, the result will be extremely far from the original Dune II, although I don't know yet if it's good or not.

EDIT: I've started a separate topic on how a Dune RTS could look like here.

[heavy trooper]

Hi all!

@shields:

Yes indeed, the introduction of shields would make all projectile-weapons useless.

In the original Dune, there are also no such things as Tanks or missile launchers.

@bugs:

apart from this, i've noticed some bugs:

- when i place a building in the path of a unit which I have already ordered to move somewhere, it 

  sometimes stops. perhaps because pathfinding is interrupted ???

- I wasnt able to finish the Harkonnen Level 9. When I had destroyed all enemy units an

  structures, nothing would happen (see screenshot)

- there seems to be a constant pruduction of !! heavy troopers (single) !! in my light factory.

  I think this bug was mentioned earlier.

- no bug, but also an issue: You should place the 4x concrete slab to another location. where it

  is now, it is not useful. 

- I also see the necessity to have a split-key (x)

- ...and the worm-attack thing again: Unit should take priority in attacking ENEMY units, not

  sandworms

- I also think, that the heavy trooper squad is much too powerful.

  Of course they are something like a baooka/anti-tank team, but this shouldn't make them

  invulnerable to heavy weapons fire.

  I remember them carrying gatling guns, so they should also be able to defend themselves against

  infantry attacks.

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[Andrew]

- no bug, but also an issue: You should place the 4x concrete slab to another location. where it is now, it is not useful.

I was thinking right below the single concrete slab. Makes more sense having them together.

[DuneFan]

heavy trooper so you finish arkonen 9 i try several times but unsuccessfull

with the original no problem i think the rocket turret should be more powerfull that what save me in the original dune2 making three rockets turrets but not working in the new dune i just got pounded every where....

what tactic did you use for finish the 9 level i think it should be tones down a little bit to tought...

[Swordmaster_Duncan]

I knew I shouldn't have mentioned shields... :P

@shields:

Yes indeed, the introduction of shields would make all projectile-weapons useless.

In the original Dune, there are also no such things as Tanks or missile launchers.

Actually, shieds wouldn't render all projectile weapons useless. Only slow traveling items/molecules can travel between the Holtzman Shield, I do believe that slow pellet stunners could be used in shielded combat (there are conditions to it though - both firers and victims velocities come into account, also the shield settings), and flechelette pistols too (?).

And there is theoretical knowledge of tanks and missile launchers in the Duneiverse, it's just redunant...

My point was that a mini squad of 3 ordinary troopers really shouldn't be able to destroy multiple tanks - even if they are shot by anti-armour weaponry. I would expect to be in alot of trouble if I copped a tank's shell... Then again I would love to have an infantry army...

[gunner154]

Missiles, in reality, are quite powerful against tanks.

And I don't think we should have shields. It makes the game far too unbalanced. Invulnerable tanks? What the hell? Wasn't a small group of iron curtained apocalypse tanks in Red Alert 2 a disaster enough? Now an entire army of invulnerable tanks? Unless you have some counter-shield technology that actually goes through the shield and damages the tank significantly, or there's a shield degenerator.

The problem of laser weapons compounds the complication of it too... Are we going to have laser weapons?