Is Dune 2000 really a remake of Dune 2?

[mechadragon]

StarCraft has the same style of engine except the bar is across the bottom.

[nemessith]

I divide RTS genre into three distinct section, they are listed with their prime differentia:

#1 Blizzard-style or Peon-style

There are special units how do all the work and collect all the resources. Resources are always limited. You can only select that many units.

#2 C&C-style

You may not create simultaneously. You always have HQ which has huge importance. You collect one resource with harvesters and that resource is unlimited.(Dune2k)

(#3 TA-style)

Much like Blizzard. Except "peons" work differently. And a VERY different gathering of resources.

Or...What do you think?

I think the entire resource management is the one thing that is that different in these three genres, so it makes them really different games. Of course, all game developers have their own vision, which marks their creations.

I think Dune3 should have new engine that is more like one in TA, WW could certainly learn to make very interesting storylines without very useless and boring movies...from Blizzard, of course.

In any case, the user interface in WW's games is obsolete, they should seriously advance it.

[Mahdi]

You guys were saying that dune2k has no maximum alowed units. You're wrong. I have played 3 games that I have reached the limit. You can keep building after reaching it, but you can't control them. You can select them, but they wont move or attack or do anything.

[Edric O]

First of all, Mahdi, you should know that there's NO limit to the units you can build in dune2k. There is however a limit to how many units you can command at the same time. You can still select more than this limit, but the extra units won't follow your orders.

You should all know that I hate Blizzard and I wish them a one-way trip to h***. I agree about those three RTS interface types. I call them WW-interface, Blizz-interface and TA interface. I think the next Dune game should have all three types! For example the atreides use the Blizzard one, the ordos the WW one and the harks the TA one. But the spice should stay unlimited. Actually, I'm working on an article on my site about the next Dune game which uses this multi-interface concept.

Oh, and remember that WW doesn't use the same old interface for RA2. They use some sort of new TAB system.

[Mahdi]

um, edric, read my post. I said you can keep building and you can select them, but they will not DO anything.

[nemessith]

For example the atreides use the Blizzard one, the ordos the WW one and the harks the TA one.

Now, I'd like to see that working. I've played a lot of RTS games and never had I seen any better interface than one in TA. Anyone with this interface has a huge advantage over the others, in any case.

I can't really see this happening. I mean, for example, in Blizzard games you can build units simultaneously because of the peon system, WW is very different on this one. How would you make it work?

Spice should stay unlimited? What if WW would do the classic "Tiberium tree", just that in this case it would be spice mound and it would spread the Spice infinitely over the surrounding area, of course the spice wouldn't grow like tiberium or ore(expanding ore...that's funny).

[Guest Viper]

i have one game where i filled the whole money ticker up (the far left space isnt used) and there is a limit. if i build any mor of anythind, it tells me too many units and i lost the $ and i get nothing

[Edric O]

I never played TA, so I don't know how the interface is, but this is how I can make my multi-interface idea work:

There are 4 houses: Atreides, Ordos, Harkonnen and Corrino.

Corrino is the "old-fashioned" one. It's got all the old Dune2000 and Dune2 units (except the house specifics) and the old WW interface.

The Atreides build buildings by making a special MCV, that can be deployed into a building. For example, you can have a Windtrap MCV. Of course, you can only deploy it close to your other buildings. About the units: They build the first unit of a kind the normal way. The others are built by "cloning" the first one. It enters the factory and it's cloned. But the atreides units can also "advance": a soldier can become a trooper (and you don't have to pay the full price of a trooper) and a tank can become a launcher (and you don't have to pay the full price of a launcher).

The Ordos use starport tech. They order all their units through starports. They've also got a building starport instead of a construction yard.

The harkonnen use upgradable tech, like some of the GDI buildings in TS. But ALL the hark buildings are like that, and even the units. Everything is built in two moduels. A basic one and an upgrade for that one. For example you first build a weaponless tank, then you put a cannon on it. Of course, all these "combinations" will be pre-set. You won't design your own units (it would be an unfair advantage for the harks and it would push the engine too much).

There are also the smugglers, who use "peons" to build buildings and even units (but they can't build more than one unit at a time).

To satisfy everyone, I also think the Bene Gesserit should be included. They use some sort of psychic tech. Anyway, they're not so important.

Like I said before, I'm writing on article on this on my site. It's still under construction, though.

[Mahdi]

I hate the blizzard engine with the multiple building of units. I get playing and loook over to the side where there should be a list of possible units to click on and build, realize it isn't there, find my base, find the barracks, click on build, go back to where I am fighting and see my guys standing around getting blizzarded to death. I prefer the Dune engine.

[Edric O]

Don't tell me! I hate everything about BZ, not just the engine. Anyway, you have a very good point. In Starcraft, for example, you can't fight and build at the same time. That's why I don't think any house in Dune3k should use the classic BZ interface. The peon system, yes, but not the interface.

[nemessith]

About Blizzard...

I don't like the fact that you can only select few units. It's a problem both in Warcraft and Starcraft series. I don't like about building system, because you can't efficiently make war and build new units and such.

What's good in Blizzard games is story line and ideas. But the engine is obsolete.

But in TA...

You can make factories build as many units as you want. And you can also chain commands, I don't how would I explain it. That's definitely the best engine and best interface I've seen.

The game itself has rather simple idea and no real story line, but interface is incredible when compared to any WW or Blizz game.

Edric, If you're writing an article about what should new Dune game be like. You should definitely try TA, because of the interface. I'd say, it's something you need to know before you can specify your vision from new Dune.

[prosthetic_eye]

I think is is sort of a remake, but I like Dune 2k better because you can select multiple units, have unlimited units (unlike Dune 2's 25), and better special units and graphics.

[kunekune]

The idea of the unit limit wasn't only for low-tech computers. It was also there to stop you from rushing the enemy and to make you value your units, instead of thinking of it as another tank.

[prosthetic_eye]

...whatever, I just like Dune 2000 better

[Guest coolio]

Got new idea for Dune3k...there should by the different type of the mission. I mean, for example the mission should be that limited number of units is transported to the enemy area, the units are best for guerilla war, they can move fast, can do sabotage...can put landmines...have big number of skilled troopers (with higher resistance, or so). Buildings..there will be no buildings like there used to be..for this mission there will be only MCVs (MCV windtrap after deploying will stand on wheels,but taking power of wind (Edric O's idea :), biggest advantage: they can be moved through the map...disadvantage: less effective. Other buildings will work like this. Factories: for this type of mission there will be no classic factories, but the starships will deliver the units from orbit..no starport needed, only headquarter MCV which will also send the orders. Specific: no big need of energy because of all units are self powered. Strategy: You have to move and set camps 3 or 4 times through the mission on suitable and different places on map, otherwise the enemy will crush you up by one big attack (you are only guerilla type army, cannot face the huge attacks). You can set another camps on area. Rocket towers: no rocket towers, this is the mission of launchers to guard your camp.....etc..etc..etc :))

This is very short and simply idea for developing dune3k...add your own ideas and send it to the WW....

Hope, you find some things interesting.

Long live fighters ! ....coolio

[niels]

look at ts. you have little units there and it is a :( game. also in the books there are huge battles.

especially in dune 7. where whole planets are being taken.

[Mahdi]

Dune 7? I don't think that has even been wrote yet, unless you are counting house Atriedes as dune 1 and chapterhouse as dune 7.

[garth]

I agree with the original poster of this topic, basically all WW RTS games boil down to who can make the most tanks the fastest and rush the other guys base. Is that strategy? Not in my opinion. Dune2k is in fact a remake of Dune II but still suffers from the flaws that are associated with most of the WW RTS games and although I hate to say it, most RTS games in general. The next Dune game should either be:

1.) a first person RTS like Battlezone or

2.) a RTS with a "paper-rock-scissors" formula for combat like in AoK (my favorite RTS game to date)

[niels]

Believe me if you play online you know dune is very much strategy not only building huge numbers. with 20 troopers you still cant beat 3 siege tanks prob

[Shiroko]

Dune 2K is only a remake because the storyline is rehappening.

But it's totally different.

For me, it symbols rather the end of simple yet tricky RTS games, where I need to build a very effective economy and can ever rush my opponent down with my tanks or have to use serious tactics.

Dune 2K requires a lot of smart tricks in fighting, ones that can be written down as a strategy, you need to know what to do once your force is 10 squares away than the enemies. Smart moves will make you lose 50%. Stupid moves will make you suicide without cauing noticable damage. So there is strategy.

[Guest Eraser]

Now i dont see why they dont keep the Dune 2k look and then when attacking you should be able to go into First Person mode on any unit. Like in real life the Engineer would not just run into a base will 40 trikes firing at you. You should be able to hide behind stuff Missile turrets should not be able to fire through (over) buildings. And why cant Attraidies Armys Travel on worms??

L8ter

-Marc Lane

(eraser@iweb.net.au)

[the_baron99]

I think Dune 2000 is way,way,way,way,way,way,way,WAY I could go on so long sayin way.But I think you get my point.

[Edric O]

Dune2k is way... what? You said enough "way", but forgot the point! Not like I was expecting anything else from someone with your "intelligence". :)

[bob_fox]

Dune 2000 is definitely better than Dune 2, just not as impressive for its time. I mean, it's the SAME GAME, but with better graphics, ACTUAL MISSIONS (not like Dune 2 where missions 3 to 9 had the same objective of "Destroy all enemy forces in the area"), and real acting. I don't see what advantages Dune 2 has over Dune 2000 (except that it brings back some years-old memories).

[Acriku]

I agree with Sniper in most ways, except the fact that Dune2 is better than Dune2k. I personally think Dune2k is better than Dune2 because of the subtle differences and good acting.