Bamboozled

[TMA_1]

I voted for president Bush during the Bush/Kerry elections. Now that I look back on it, I obviously made a huge mistake.

I just dont see it, why was I tricked so easily? I feel cheated and the more I look at the shape of things I realize that some of the conspiracies mentioned by some left wingers may be correct. The conservative takeover was ultimately successful yet I think it has been caught in time. I really do believe that the Bush power structure is heavily influenced by large corperations, and that Bush used christian sentiments in order to gain the votes.

Hell, I dont even think Bush is the real enemy, I think it goes much deeper than just bush. I think that there are powerful people pulling the strings behind everything. The worst thing about this whole situation is that the scorn will ultimately be put on evangelical christians, and because people generalize so damn much all christians will be spit upon in america in the coming years because of this whole mess. Some evil power greater than us is at work here, it is the only answer for the things that have been ahppening.

We have a demon in the white house, and maybe that isnt as figurative as I would like to think. scares the crap out of me.

[GUNWOUNDS]

well... despite all the wrong he may have done/will cause ... you cant deny that it was important for him as president to appoint conservative Supreme Court Justices.

[VigilVirus]

Let the country go to hell as long as it's with conversative justices?  ;D

It's glad that some people are finally realizing what kind of grave error of judgment was committed here. It took a whole lot of shit to shake people up, but I do think they are waking up.

[stefanhendriks]

Mistakes can be undone ;) If many americans feel the same about you , you can do something about it. Demonstrate. In the end, the USA belongs to its people, not to Bush or any coorporation. Funny thing is, a coorporation is only just something ran by people an dnothing bigger then anything else. If people stop working, the coorporation is dead.

[nemafakei]

Half the problem is that the Democrats don't provide much of an alternative. And with the US electoral system being what it is, you'll need a pretty big momentum to get another party in. Worse, if the third-party 'slot' goes to libertarians, then you'll really be stuck.

[exatreide]

Indeed, they are rather icky.

[nampigai]

my problem with the US is that in my eyes it's just as religius as many of the middle eastern countries - and that scares the hell out of me.

politics and religion shouldn't mix PERIOD!

[TMA_1]

no they should never mix, for the benefit of both, and I think some forget that.

America in general has strong religious roots that still stick with us to this day. You have to understand though that many muslim nations who are hostile and violent are very different culturally than to fundimentalist christians in America. Because we live in a society that has many more freedoms than other nations, and because we have grown in a society that has disbanded many old notions of the past, you cannot really compare fundimentalist followers of islam whoa re violent to the christian right in America. There is a HUGE difference between the two, and only people who extremely generalize or stereotype right wing christians would think that there is any similarity.

Still though I agree that there are problems with people that live in the bible belt area, those types of christians. THey shouldnt represent the faith, but sadly they do. It is funny that so many are quick tos ay that not all muslims are extremists, but christians dont usually get that kind of support. its pretty obvious why, and nothing will ever be done to change it.

[Anathema]

Well, certainly Bush wouldn't have gotten where he got without profiling himself as a staunch christian. But the importance of this shouldn't be overstated. The religious right (wich I'll call people who vote mainly based on religious platform) may feel betrayed because they think they're to thank for putting Bush in office, but the truth is that they're a minority still and that Bush wouldn't be there either without the support of secular minded republicans and moderate voters.

I think that Libby's indictment is only the top of the iceberg in this whole Plame scandal. I never fully expected Bush would make it to the end of his second term, and it seems more and more like I'm going to be right.

[Andrew]

Sad to see you got suckered into voting for Bush. :(

Wish I had a link to the "How can 50 million americans be so stupid" image that was on a tabloid the day after the election. It was so true (even more so now).

I was rooting for anyone but Bush to win the last election (so becuase it was America, it had to be Kerry). Quite frankly I don't know anyone who supports Bush in Canada (Yes I know its Canada, but if people from other countries laugh at Bush being a terrible president, he might just be) Heck I even watched a couple of the television debates between Bush and Kerry, and stayed up to see the election.

The American political system is not very good. You can vote for A or B. A or B will win no matter what. Only 2 parties get elected officials.

The whole softwood lumber dispute between Canada and America is stupid. Bush (republican party) is getting paid $$$ by american logging companies so they have to keep them happy by ilegally taxing Canadian wood and wont even pay reparations. "Negotiation", phhhh stick it to the man and keep telling them to shove negotiations up their ass.

Funny, I seen CNN saying that Martin was attacking america or something with not wanting to negotiate, and the Canadian news didn't put it as though we are attacking America. Blahg blah blah America has gone to crap since Bush was elected.

Where is Osama? Not in Iraq. Better invade Syria or Pakistan he might be there...

As for the conservative Judges, whats the diff between conservative and liberal supreme judges? Is there something to be afraid of? Do they each have different agendas? I'm not up to speed on what they do other than make judgments or whatever. :(

[Mahdi]

"Quite frankly I don't know anyone who supports Bush in Canada"

Emprworm's in Canada.

Bush is more popular out West (just as Gob), and you're about as far from out west as one can be.

"As for the conservative Judges, whats the diff between conservative and liberal supreme judges? Is there something to be afraid of? Do they each have different agendas? I'm not up to speed on what they do other than make judgments or whatever."

At the risk of sounding glib:

Liberal:

[Anathema]

Plus gun ownership, gay marriage, state rights...

[Dude_Doc]

One thing that is changing now, and may have been changing for some wile, is that countries are becoming more and more of a corporation-style hierarchy. Really, all the revolutions, all the movements, they have all just changed the looks of the system, while those with power and money remains at the top.

I mean, the US constitution grants the people a right to revolt in case of corrupt "leadership" - but now with the patriot act intact, anyone trying to do so will be stamped as a terrorist.

Hell, republicans is the last thing I am going to vote for. The US has a large religious ground, granted, so they use it. If the majority would have been atheist or buddists, technopiles or satanists, they would also follow those lines. In the end, it's all about power.

Really, what do you expect? That the republicans make the US more christian? Religion is not to be mixed with politics. Because this lesson has been learned before: the crusades, for example, or the kind of regimes Iran and Saudiarabia have.

[Andrew]

Must be a regional thing. Everytime Bush comes up as a subject in a conversation he gets made fun of. Even in class.

All he has done is made the rich richer. So I guess if your a rich american you would obviously love him.

EDIT

I wish Canada joined the war in Iraq so we could build a huge national deficit! Surpluses are for losers ::)

[Edric O]

well... despite all the wrong he may have done/will cause ... you cant deny that it was important for him as president to appoint conservative Supreme Court Justices. Thats probably the main reason i voted for him.... i knew he would be responsible for shaping the Supreme Court.  Even if thats all he will accomplish his entire term... that was important enuf for him to be in office.  Because the supreme court guides the nation for the future to come and i would rather have conservative Supreme Court Justices than liberal ones.  I would shudder at the thought of Kerry filling all these supreme court justice positions.  So perhaps there is a bright side to everything.

I can see where you're coming from, but don't you think the cost of getting those conservative Supreme Court Justices was too great? Most of the conservative social policies that got Bush re-elected are utterly irrelevant compared to the conservative economic policies that will hurt America's working class, slash whatever is left of the welfare state and cut funding for health care and education while making the rich richer than ever. What are the Supreme Court Justices going to do that is so important? Fight abortion? No they won't. The moment the fight against abortion is won, the Christian Right is going to lose steam and dissolve as a political force. Republicans don't want that to happen. They will not make any serious attack on abortion, because they care about their rich corporate buddies, not about any babies (born or unborn). They want to keep their Christian Right voter base politically active by using the bogeyman of abortion for as long as possible.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Good points Edrico but there is more to it than just abortion.

[Mahdi]

That's a selfish way to vote, isn't it?  Chosing whoever will benefit you the most financially instead of whoever you think is actually best for your entire country.

[GUNWOUNDS]

"instead of the best candidate for your entire country"

Thats a pretty ambiguous statement.  Cause you cant vote for a candidtate who will be best for the entire country.  Either the candidate will screw the country socially/morally or the candidate will screw the country financially.  The candidate is gonna screw somebody somewhere somehow... thats why voting is called choosing the lesser of two evils.  In this situation the only thing you can know for sure is what you personally are going to get out of it and therefore you should vote accordingly.  To say Bush or Kerry is the best for the USA is a joke cuz neither are.... you can only pick what is best for yourself.

And heck.. i voted for the last 12 years for people who hurt me financially... so i dont feel guilty voting for a candidate who will help me financially next term.  Throw me a fricken bone here.

[stefanhendriks]

Do you really think people vote whats best for their country? Never saw anyone doing that. Thats why we have in Holland so many parties to choose from. Choose the one who does those things right according to your view (and yes, that also means benefits, but not all the time)... But then again, we don't have an A/B multiple choice question as the Americans have ;)

[nemafakei]

Edric hasn't explicitly said it, so I will.

If you're looking for morality, the appointment of a few old men whose decisions affect the corporate sector far more often than any ethical questions you have is far, far outweighed by the moral concern over the poor and the vulnerable. Maybe it's just me, but the wealth divide in your country - never mind the world - seems like a far clearer problem than the murky grey areas between life and phase space, between suicide and euthanasia, between one textbook wording and another.

Stefan, surely you've heard of 'middle-class' and wealthy people who vote left?

[TMA_1]

What I have noticed is that not all christians who voted for bush are as stupid as people think they are. Many conservative christians have true passionate beliefs about issues like abortion and gay rights. We believe in somethign that goes beyond the purely political. Because of this we are so concerned for where this country is going, that sadly many forget about what is really good for america.

Christians should stay out of politics. The more I see the more it fixes me to this mindset. If only there was a swelling underground of Christian Socialism in america. Christian doctrines teach that the rich generally shouldnt be rich. If a rich person truly followed God's will, the person would give all excess cash to programs that help people or to the people themselves. THis is one of the reasons why Government exists, to equalize things in society. If a rich man was really a Godly man, he would live a humble life, giving up all gaudy worldy possessions and using the money to help fellow brothers and sisters in christ. I cant stand it when I see christians, even good christians, live pampered lives and give only a tenth of their wealth to their churches. We as christians dont live under the jewish covenant!!! We live in a time of great sorrow, when every last drop of currancy needs to be dispersed to fellow christians in need.

This doesnt just go for christians either. Dont we all see the plight of fellow bothers and sisters throughout the world? Dont we see the plight of those living in our own countries? Is it right to let a currupt millionare needlessly spend? While all the while he would judge a man living on the streets as a bum who is too lazy. Dont people know the harsh realities of poverty? That most people who are in poverty are usually disabled mentally or physically? and those that arent usually have fallen through the cracks? Dont they see that there are debilitating chemicals out there that tempt people? DOnt people see that these chemicals are sometimes the only means of happiness for those who are desperate in life? I know I am whining, but damn this is really bothering me.

Sometimes it is fine to have nice things in life, even a cool television, computer, video game console or anything you really enjoy. I am not trying to come off as a jerk with this, I have some of this stuff. I think what matters is where your heart and mind is. Are you doing enough to help basically.

Right now I dont think I am doing enough, I wonder how I could help more.

have you guys ever thought about these things? like how much you really are doing to help those in need?

[Egeides]

Gunwounds, how many economic destruction/deaths abroad and in USA would in your opinion be worth these judges? The war in Iraq in one example bringing deaths both abroad and in USA, and it has serious effects on USA's credibility abroad.

And aren't such judges something of a theoric win, over a practical loss? Patriotic Act and the like also have an effect on Americans' rights, while judges arbitrate within their boundaries. So if you are against the act and your president's rule, doesn't it end up being "win judges for the future, and lose actual rights on which they'll judge"?

[Caid Ivik]

Christians should stay out of politics.

I would like to see more attributes of politicians in your utopic vision...

[Andrew]

The war in Iraq in one example bringing deaths both abroad and in USA, and it has serious effects on USA's credibility abroad.

...the U.S. war in Iraq was creating "long-term problems" for other countries.

So pretty much its now a breeding ground for terrorists and gives middle east people a reason to hate western nations.

[Dude_Doc]

I don't really think the war on terror is meant to end. The US needs an enemy on which to spend money on. And the Patriot Act seems very strange to me, I mean, how come the US people are pnished for something not committed in the US? I can understand if it were normal Americans who committed the act, but this was 5 years ago, there hasn't been one try to attack the US ever since. The Patriot Act is in my eyes another tool by the mighty to control the people.