degredation of our (the american) society

[Edric O]

@Edrico--->

[Dante]

Homosexuality is sexual aberrance same as pedophilia, bestiality, and necrophilia.

Children don't know what it's about; neither do animals, and corpses certainly don't. Other people, however, do. Consensual relationship.

If you honestly believe these people should have parades as well and be honored then it only shows how utterly nonsensical your belief system is.

[Edric O]

Yes blaming crime on poverty is an insult to the poor.

That's like saying that blaming crime on people is an insult to humankind... ::)

Saying "poverty causes crime" doesn't mean all poor people are criminals, just like saying "being human causes crime" doesn't mean all humans are criminals.

Statistically, the poor do commit more crime than the rich, for two main reasons:

1. Necessity. Many of them need to commit some crime in order to support themselves and their family.

2. Desperation. Being poor, especially when you've tried and failed to rise out of poverty, can cause serious psychological problems.

...everything to do with the personal intergity of the parents and whether or not the family respects traditional moral values. Plain and simple.

By the way, I'd like to point out that having parents with good moral values is useless if those parents don't know how to raise their children properly. The reason immorality increased in the first place was because many people who grew up in families with "traditional moral values" came to hate those values when they reached adulthood.

There are plenty of socialistic elements in our society that help people in regards to education and self-improvement.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Republicans seem to be fighting hard to remove them.

The programs are available to anyone.

[Edric O]

Haha, Edric, I think I am venting my frustration with those who vent their frustration, I still think that, minus that, what I'm saying has merit. Boiled down to a few words, if there is any degredation to our society, it is the result of a modern culture that cannot satisfy the aspirations and desires of the people that inhabit it. People feel less and less meaning to what they do in life, and a commercialized consumer culture can do little to help that.

I agree. And this situation seems to give new meaning to the statement that "capitalism carries the seeds of its own destruction"... ;)

[Dude_Doc]

That is a lie... nobody is force to do any of those things.

Yes, you're right. They could choose to leave their families and hope for the best. Great parents...

Here in america dirt poor people get a special loan called financial aid that gives them free tuition free meals, free room and board and free book money.

Yes, we have a good system here in Sweden too. But all places around the world don't have that luxury.

They get all of that and its free.. they get a nice college degree... and can get a job.

Say that to the farmers of China ;) ...

There are plenty of socialistic elements in our society that help people in regards to education and self-improvement.

As I said, there sure are plenty of stuff to "help" the poor, but most will never make it, some are poor due to crime - they get registered as criminals and scum - and could never go back to society. And sure - some countries do have help in this matter, while most don't.

Same goes for abortion... there is a thread here in PRP where i listed program after program showing how much support single mothers with children get and why abortion does not have to be used as contraception.

Yes - abortion is another matter. Abortion should be up to the woman who is having a baby - the state can never decide - there can be no law on abortion except if everyone who has one (abortion) dies, or contracts a decease.

Why? Not everybody is a Christian. Some are Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and so on. The people owns themselves - not a state, corporation or religion. If the person considers her abortion to be a sin - then it is up to her to decide if it is a sin.

[Acriku]

Problem with financial aid, however, is that the "dirt poor people" have to have good grades, good testing scores, and some require community service. Then again maybe that isn't a problem... If they're not going to be able to pass college, based on high school scores, then they shouldn't be given thousands of dollars to try. Same goes for "rich people."

I agree with ya Cyborg on abortion, should be left up to the woman.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Actually in the USA to get into some colleges you only have to be in the top 50% of your highschool class and score a measely 800 on the SAT.

[Acriku]

Hmm, that's a lot different than Florida. Florida's scholarships are called Bright Futures scholarships, here's the site: http://www.firn.edu/doe/bin00072/index.html

You're right about community colleges, they are a lot easier to get into, and at least in Florida, universities are required to accept those applying who have 2-year degrees from community colleges like Valencia CC.

[GUNWOUNDS]

oh no no no .... NOT scholarships Acriku..

what i am talking about is called a Federal Loan.

[Andrew]

WTF am I doing in Canada when I can get a free education in USA?!?!? :(

Don't most loans have to be repayed? Wouldn't it be called a grant?

In the USA are colleges 4 year programs where you get a degree, or are they like in Canada (at least in Atlantic Canada) where they are usually 2 year programs and give a diploma?

I love how a government website does not work. I can not get to most of the webpages on that website.

Shall we have this split into an education thread?

[GUNWOUNDS]

WTF am I doing in Canada when I can get a free education in USA?!?!? :(

Don't most loans have to be repayed? Wouldn't it be called a grant?

In the USA are colleges 4 year programs where you get a degree, or are they like in Canada (at least in Atlantic Canada) where they are usually 2 year programs and give a diploma?

I love how a government website does not work. I can not get to most of the webpages on that website.

Shall we have this split into an education thread?

if your parents make too much money (like mine did) then you can still get loans but you have to pay them back.

[Andrew]

Ok. The Canadian government pays for the interest while I am in school also. (same for any type of student loan that the Feds or Provincial governments provide)

But 6 months after I graduate or drop out I have to pay back the loan and interest (not any interest from when I was in school).

For some reason I remember a letter saying that the interest rate on my loan was 10% which made no sense to me, as the prime bank rate is only around 6%.

Hmm, doesn't make sense that if your parents make money the government gives you free money for an education. Almost better if you are poor and get an education, because you are debt free when you get out. At least it sounds better than getting an education and having a high debt load when you graduate which will take 10 years to pay off.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Ok. The Canadian government pays for the interest while I am in school also. (same for any type of student loan that the Feds or Provincial governments provide)

But 6 months after I graduate or drop out I have to pay back the loan and interest (not any interest from when I was in school).

For some reason I remember a letter saying that the interest rate on my loan was 10% which made no sense to me, as the prime bank rate is only around 6%.

Hmm, doesn't make sense that if your parents make money the government gives you free money for an education. Almost better if you are poor and get an education, because you are debt free when you get out. At least it sounds better than getting an education and having a high debt load when you graduate which will take 10 years to pay off.

Exactly... some guy who is poor will get the same job as me but without all the student loan debt thus putting him ahead in life.

[Andrew]

It doesn't if you have a non-financial supportive family and still have to pay back the loans. :(

Although maybe it is a way for the government to make up for the persons crappy childhood (if poor).

It is sad as I cannot financially afford to drop out of university even if I wanted to. And I cant afford to stay in university. :P

On another sad note I saw a business degree graduate (supposedly had good grades too) working at a subway restaurant yesterday. Hopfully that is just his second job and he has a better job the other days of the week. Most business graduates get a job and a high paying one relative to other 4 year program graduates at my university.

[GUNWOUNDS]

It doesn't if you have a non-financial supportive family and still have to pay back the loans. :(

Although maybe it is a way for the government to make up for the persons crappy childhood (if poor).

It is sad as I cannot financially afford to drop out of university even if I wanted to. And I cant afford to stay in university. :P

On another sad note I saw a business degree graduate (supposedly had good grades too) working at a subway restaurant yesterday. Hopfully that is just his second job and he has a better job the other days of the week. Most business graduates get a job and a high paying one relative to other 4 year program graduates at my university.

Well sometimes job market can be bad and it takes time to find your "real job".

[nemafakei]

Naturally, state-provided education is the only way to ensure that people have the opportunity to be educated to their full potential, for their goo and for the good of society as a whole.

"Actually in the USA to get into some colleges you only have to be in the top 50% of your highschool class and score a measely 800 on the SAT."

Well, 50% don't make the first requirement, never mind the second! Granted you then say that some colleges have lower expectations.

"Getting an education is so available now in the USA that if you dont have one you only have YOURSELF to blame"

But there is a good number of people who are simply unable to complete such courses of education, irrespective of entry requirements. Do there exist schemes to ensure these people can find a job - or at least are kept out of crime until jobs can be found?

Of course, as you have said, crime is only one facet of the problem. People are generally less polite and less considerare towards other human beings than they ought to be, at home, in schools, in workplaces both private and public, and on the streets.

[Egeides]

I know that this discussion now went on other topics, but for those who would wish to get more basic information about the Mongols and their culture: http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/mongols/

[TMA_1]

many times it is harder to get a higher education in america than in many european countries! I think you are overgeneralizing to the extreme gunwounds.

Because of our capitalist driven society, it depends on many more variables than just how hard you try to get an education.

[Ninja_Sher]

Define "screwed up"... Certainly the Wild West, for example, or the Southern States back when slavery was legal, were far more screwed up than present-day America.

I don't think so. You need to compare America with other Western countries. The nuclear family is far more "crumbled" in the rest of the West (Europe, Canada, Australia) than in the USA, yet those countries have much less violence and, IMO, people are much nicer to each other. Also, the consumption of soft drugs is legal in Holland, but they don't seem to have nearly as many drug problems as the USA.

My guess is that your problems are a psychological/cultural thing. Enforcing tougher rules won't solve anything - you need a different (and better) kind of education on a national level.

Actually, the spike in crime was caused by the tremendous rise of social inequality during the past 25 years. It's a well known fact in sociology that inequality and stratification lead to higher crime rates.

Many of them obviously did think their society was screwed up - that's why they rebelled against it in the 60's.

If that is so, then how come less religious anglo-saxon countries, like Britain, have much less crime?

Yes, and today a woman doesn't dare not have a date, for fear of losing her reputation. Like I said, it's a cultural thing.

I'd rather have people do the right thing out of moral conviction than because they're afraid of punishment...

Haha, yeah right. Have you noticed that the Republicans spend most of their time trying to cut taxes, privatize Social Security, and push through a variety of other far-right economic policies, rather than taking any serious action to defend moral values? That's because they only use "moral values" for propaganda purposes.

Uh, no. Slavery had existed in the South since the very first time that land had been colonized by European settlers. The South's economy was traditionally based on slave-driven agriculture. Slavery was very much traditional. Meanwhile, the North was going through the Industrial Revolution - which was a modern thing - and putting more and more emphasis on wage labour - another modern thing.

First you have to define "conservatism"... If by "conservatism" you simply mean a desire to return to traditional ways of life, then the greatest conservative alive today is probably Osama Bin Laden.

Oh, and another thing: What is new today will be old tomorrow. The values that are modern today will be traditional tomorrow. Thus, the term "traditional values" is very imprecise. Different values are "traditional" in different places at different times.

Ah ... Edric, you see the britain is having same kinds of problems that their descendants are ...

Look at Queen mother, she can't even control her own son, and grandsons ... dont even get me started with harry ........ ???? :D

[GUNWOUNDS]

many times it is harder to get a higher education in america than in many european countries! I think you are overgeneralizing to the extreme gunwounds.

Because of our capitalist driven society, it depends on many more variables than just how hard you try to get an education.

dude.. i laid it out plain and simple for you.. i am not overgeneralizing...anyone in america can get a damn education if they want it bad enough ok?

Read above the links i gave and re-read my posts about acquiring student loan money or grants.

[SpiceGuid]

The world is bored, so they wage wars for fun and profit.

We need a challange. SPACE. IMO.

We have no goals that matter, no line to follow.

Quite true, whe need a challenge.

But i don't think we need a new frontier, Space can't promise a better life.

The disappointment is whe have been promised an "intelligence society" but instead we have an "immediate excitment society".

Somehow intelligence failed to market itself while entertainment reigns unchallenged, to the point our lives are merely entertainment before death.

[Khan]

Ah ... Edric, you see the britain is having same kinds of problems that their descendants are ...

Look at Queen mother, she can't even control her own son, and grandsons ... dont even get me started with harry ........ ???? :D

The queen mother doesn't have any sons, and who cares about harry, it's William we all care about.

[Kiyouta]

Nah just burn them. Sure some people might miss them for a bit, but that will pass in a week or two. Meanwhile we'll all be better off with lovely tax cuts and have the chance in staying in the new swanky 'Buckingham Palace Hotel' hahahaa.

[Ninja_Sher]

Nah just burn them. Sure some people might miss them for a bit, but that will pass in a week or two. Meanwhile we'll all be better off with lovely tax cuts and have the chance in staying in the new swanky 'Buckingham Palace Hotel' hahahaa.

Dude, you are going to be put on a cross for treachery after that comment , lol :D.