Is emperor balanced ?

[Madenod]

About the AA turret situation for ordos. Pearlman, Surely you cannot sugest that ordos shouldn't have a turret just because it would be wise to have the ADM's prices reduced? ???

I mean, if that was the case then we simply wouldn't have air defence cover untill we got a hanger.

And on the other hand ADM's(Air Defence Mines) when close to each other, tend to kill the same thing and so its hard to defend using mines.

[alchemi2]

but ordos do have both aa troopers and apc  ground air defence and lets face it a hark player with aa troops missile tanks and turrets can't always stop a good hark bombing run but the cost of gunships is high, all ordos stuff is cheaper than hark so you can out produce the hark player.

Desert position point is very valid and it does make a difference. again i maintain the appeal of this game is the fact that a player actual skill makes a difference. ;) :)

[jeff2429]

Jeff , in ordoer for projector to be effective u need alot of them (10+) and there is no way u can amake 10 projectors b4 a good hark has ships.  the only person i ever remember using mass projections is emprworm , and it worked very well but the oponents skill level wasn't as great as some of the people that play now so i'm not sure how that would work

I keep picturing I could pull it off and yall wouldn't be ready but your not noobs. :P I guess I will go infaltrators first then go projecters super late game if I haven't won or already lost. 

   

[erjin999]

but ordos do have both aa troopers and apc  ground air defence and lets face it a hark player with aa troops missile tanks and turrets can't always stop a good hark bombing run but the cost of gunships is high, all ordos stuff is cheaper than hark so you can out produce the hark player.

So while my barracks is pumping out AA and my fac is pumping out APC units the enemy is pumping out buzz's, infs AND gunshits. He is using 3 buildings and I am using 2 (cos hanger is crape for ords unless I am wealthy, which at this stage of the game I wouldnt be [i was thinking EITS - and thats only for a game thats dragging out]). He will out produce me.

[GUNWOUNDS]

you are absolutely correct erjin ... for ordos to switch to AA and APC's they must stop making dusties/lasers/gass/mortar

[jeff2429]

If you are wealthy then 3 barracks pumping out aa men ($100 each) is all you need for air defense for ordos.  You get a whole bunch of them really fast and just spread them good and keep making them while you keep makin dusty/laser/cobra and fremen and sards.  This is easy to do late game for me getting a quick aa defense and it's good to make aa mines if you got nothing else to make and you can afford them.  Then get a starport and start ordering mass ordos apcs (6 max per order).

The only time I struggle with ordos defense on the ground and air is in like the first 15 mins cause those aa men drain the money when you don't have those extra refs.

[erjin999]

And thats the bit I am talking about, when he gets the 3 gunshits he needs to take out the first of your refs, and bingo, you're behind already now.

Best bet is to rush in there and make him divert money from gunshits to ground forces. Which I cant always do  >:(

[KALONY]

in a 1vs1 its ok, coz if u have to go aa soon coz ur oponent is going ships, than he has less ground. but in a 3vs3 for example when u fight another hark, where u need gas en mass, than its hard to cover with aa at the same time when the second hark is going ships....well normaly my ally has to keep care of the second hark, but u know, sometimes its difficult coz he might be far away or something like that

KALONY

[atrd3m0n]

i would also like to say that it seems from my experience that ordos weaponry seems highly suited to killing atr... and hark weaponry seems highly suited to killing ordos.

[Harkdawg]

id have to say from my point of view, all houses are diffrent and have theyre specialities, 90% its the player that wins not the house,..... but hey thats just me!

[jeff2429]

What few games I have seen clam on lately he has been using ornis, and I remember one of the games I had ink and he used ornis agaist the inks, but for every ink dead so was a mino.  If a hark player is gonna need inks vs atr then any good player will have elites which are the orni-killer since their weapon can't miss which a orni can run from trooper aa fire.  If your on 3 facs already then throw in a ratio either 2 inks and a missle tank or 1 ink 1 missle and it takes care of the ornis or it did that one game for me agaisnt clam.  Actually the elites alone did the job just fine where I lost maybe 2 inks each time he came but had replacements in no time.

[mordusxxx]

emperor is very balanced, look at it this way, ordos has speed, regeneration.  and dmg per second meaning they own in quick fights and running off. No other house can fight they way they do on the ground, Atr is defense, u can turtle your way to victory anyday lol. and last but not least harkonnen very strong all around lacking in air control and heavy fire power vs kobra, all u would have to do is run down inks wiht kobs since they can fire undeployed. so all in all yes emperor is balanced, not to mention throwing in the sub houses.

[alchemi2]

I think LW make the game unbalanced as does crates as they can give a massive advantage to one of the players or teams.

prebuilt base with units are the standard QM setts im not convinced this is a good/bad thing just different.

FOW is balanced but does affect game play, it does greatly enhance the tactics and stratergies used but in a balanced way. i think that it depends what type of game you want at the time. Be it a quickish upbeat battle or a slightly slower more tactical one where you can take advantae of all units and their abilities.

[clam74]

What few games I have seen clam on lately he has been using ornis, and I remember one of the games I had ink and he used ornis agaist the inks, but for every ink dead so was a mino.

[jeff2429]

Yet that was a good game when me and kal took on you and sard both as atr.  But if you didn't notice I had lots of warriors to.  But yes the ornis did take the pressure off of the advancing minos but only for a short while.

[clam74]

i forgot to mention , i havent really attacked with orni's in 5-6 groups of 5-6 , instead i been attacking 1 ink with all orni's , thats why u were having an easier time , but the next time we find ourselves in that situation ima try to turn on the heat with a few groups of orni's each targeting a different ink and we'll see what happens

[atrd3m0n]

I always group my planes, my drones got a key too, when i played generals i had lotsa groups of planes, and always around to do their job. if u number ur ornis into groups, u can be much more effective, same goes for ships, 3 take out a ref, so if u got 9 ships and u can do a raid on a base without beeing punished that means u can take out 3 refs in 1 run, and i mean an organized run, not all ships goin from ref to ref, and anyone can calculate that the way i mention is 3 times faster. If u play generals and are a lil handy with keeping ur planes in the air constantly, and make good use of them, u will surely see the benefits of this way. But as dawg says, 90% is player, rest is circumstances and maybe a little geography.

[clam74]

I always group my planes, my drones got a key too, when i played generals i had lotsa groups of planes, and always around to do their job. if u number ur ornis into groups, u can be much more effective, same goes for ships, 3 take out a ref, so if u got 9 ships and u can do a raid on a base without beeing punished that means u can take out 3 refs in 1 run, and i mean an organized run, not all ships goin from ref to ref, and anyone can calculate that the way i mention is 3 times faster. If u play generals and are a lil handy with keeping ur planes in the air constantly, and make good use of them, u will surely see the benefits of this way. But as dawg says, 90% is player, rest is circumstances and maybe a little geography.

well its safer u try to kill ref with at least 4 ships , coz if he puts up last minute turret u aint gonna kill it

[jeff2429]

well its safer u try to kill ref with at least 4 ships , coz if he puts up last minute turret u aint gonna kill it

Takes 8 gunship shots to kill a fully upgraded ref so good point if 1 of the guns dies before it fires off 2 shots then the ref will live. 

[erjin999]

If its unprotected or lightly protected there is no point, if there is protection then send them all for the same target and do a "gunshit run" as opposed to the targeted hits you would do with 3 gunshits otherwise.

Many times I have done as doomp says, using groups of 3 without problems.

[atrd3m0n]

well its safer u try to kill ref with at least 4 ships , coz if he puts up last minute turret u aint gonna kill it

yeah IF, but as i mentioned, when u can go unpunished,u could sneak in some feds to take the turrets out just b4 u arrive if there are any, its kinda the same thing as u go snipe off the troopers on the spice just b4 u go drone em. I always like to get maximum results with minimal resources and minimal losses, u shud always try to pull off some stuff to tip the game into ur favor, instead of makin millions of units and attack when u outnumber the other, its kinda boring. What happened to originality and resourcefulness ?

Theres still so much stuff u can try to do, but as is now I generally see ppl do the usual stuff. I mean cant we all dream this stuff now? I been changin my play a bit lately, trying to struck an early blow that results into shifting the balance into the favor of the team. And I gotta say, alotta ppl got punk'd b4 they even knew what hit em lol  ppl were crackin me up as they went ballistic abt what i did to them lmao

[erjin999]

Like me making 3 ords barracks and going all out for desertways base a little while back. Completely suprised them and myslef, it worked !

[GUNWOUNDS]

yea the buzz gass rush the buzz engy rush and the triple ordos bar rush are all classic rushes...... few people can pull them off with success tho against good opponents.

[erjin999]

I didnt realise it was a classic, I just thought "That'd be nice and different" and it seemed Desertway and his base agreed, at least to the different part, maybe not the nice  8)

[wraith126]

air drones are too good

harkonnen gunships are too good

minotaurs are rigged

sonic tanks are too poor

kobra speed reduction after being hit is too much

i disagree with the rock paper scissors theory.. its all dependant on the map and player skill