North Korea Admits to having Nukes

[nemafakei]

Ok, thankyou, I'm just clarifying.

[Khan]

I totally get what you are saying Gunwounds, and it does make a lot of sense, but shouldn't we wait to see how things develop, as soon as N. Korea does something that warrants an attack, I'm all for it, but so far shouldn't we just wait? I agree that learning from that-which-the-Godwin-theorey-forbids is a good idea and we should watch N. Korea, but I dislike the idea of a pre-emptive strike because there is always the chance that the politicians are wrong.

[Kiyouta]

Pffft where's Hans Blix when you need him.

[Khan]

Hans Blix you mean ;)

[Kiyouta]

Thats the one :O

[GUNWOUNDS]

Heh.... well kiyouta we dont need Hans anymore now that Korea has admitted to possessing nukes.

[Dante]

Too bad nobody listened to him.

Personally I believe very strongly in a right to internal control. I.e. What goes on in my house is my business. What goes on in my neighbour's is his, and none of mine. This also extends to countries. If Iran or North Korea want to develop nuclear capabilities, then that is their business. We have no right to interfere.

Now the classic retort to this might be "But what if [country X] was to throw nukes at you, then?" To which I reply: 'Well if they hit me then I obviously wasn't paying attention and deserve everything I get.' And if they miss, then Country X should prepare for serious counter attacks because they invaded my space.

See the reasoning is simple: Don't cast the first stone. If Iraq had, by some bizarre quirk of reality, attacked the USA, then I would have supported American countermeasures (though not the interference with the running of the country). If North Korea attacks anyone, they are fair game. If anyone attacks North Korea, then the invader becomes the unprovoked aggressor. Now you may argue that waiting for North Korea to make the first move is a mistake. I say that it gives you more time to prepare and gives you the moral high ground for propaganda.

Since it seems a bit childish to refer to use Godwin's 'law' as a synonym for nazism, when we all know that's the parallel here... If the allies had paid attention and watched Germany prior to the Second World War then they might have been prepared for the invasions of Denmark, Poland, et al.

Thanks for typing that out...

[GUNWOUNDS]

we should watch N. Korea, but I dislike the idea of a pre-emptive strike because there is always the chance that the politicians are wrong.

well to what limit of observation is unclear.... if you watch for too long its possible they could perform a critical strike and catch you with your pants down  (pearl harbor comes to mind).

Basically i think the United States is trying to prevent another "China" from coming into creation.  What is China?  Well basically a dictatorship that is so large and powerful now that it is beyond the United States to deal with.  I think the US would prefer not to have any more Juggernauts being spawned.  Especially ones with the internal policy of N. Korea.

[Megashrap]

Too bad nobody listened to him.

See the reasoning is simple: Don't cast the first stone.

Who said we are going to invade North Korea, now or near future? The fact that a rogue country that cannot effectively feed it's own people, but can produce nukes with a history of selling arms, military vehicles etc. should at the very least raise concerns and not only by the U.S. but all nations.

[Dante]

So sit tight, prepare for an attack, and don't give away the high ground.

[Khan]

Basically i think the United States is trying to prevent another "China" from coming into creation. What is China? Well basically a dictatorship that is so large and powerful now that it is beyond the United States to deal with. I think the US would prefer not to have any more Juggernauts being spawned. Especially ones with the internal policy of N. Korea.

That's true, but maybe someone needs to knock america off of the top spot, and maybe democracy isn't the perfect government type that everyone thinks ir is, maybe something better is round the corner, who knows...

[Kiyouta]

Heh.... well kiyouta we dont need Hans anymore now that Korea has admitted to possessing nukes.

Ahh but they could be just saying they possess nukes to prevent a U.S. invasion.

[GUNWOUNDS]

That's true, but maybe someone needs to knock america off of the top spot, and maybe democracy isn't the perfect government type that everyone thinks ir is, maybe something better is round the corner, who knows...

Well... you can say the capitalist system isnt perfect... but saying democracy isnt perfect just doesnt sound right.

Democracy is the core of idealistic systems like socialism/communism .. so if you are going to criticize america .... its capitalist system would be the thing to criticize not its democratic structure.

[Megashrap]

Ahh but they could be just saying they possess nukes to prevent a U.S. invasion.

North Korea's nuclear capability has never been scientifically verified. The only way for North Korea to prove otherwise would be actual nuclear testing.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what this says translated?

I clearly get what the poster is getting at, just wondering what the text says.

[GUNWOUNDS]

North Korea's nuclear capability has never been scientifically verified. The only way for North Korea to prove otherwise would be actual nuclear testing.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what this says translated?

I clearly get what the poster is getting at, just wondering what the text says.

i think it says.... "i'm

[Megashrap]

Or maybe that poster proclaims...penis envy?

[Khan]

Man, I just came straight to page 4, I thought this thread had become very strange indeed... :-X

Well... you can say the capitalist system isnt perfect... but saying democracy isnt perfect just doesnt sound right.

Democracy is the core of idealistic systems like socialism/communism .. so if you are going to criticize america .... its capitalist system would be the thing to criticize not its democratic structure.

[Kiyouta]

Yeh. Winston Churchill once said "Democracy is the worse form of government, apart from all the others.". No system is perfect.

I too am pro capitalist, I don't want to share my money with Khan! ;D

[VigilVirus]

well to what limit of observation is unclear.... if you watch for too long its possible they could perform a critical strike and catch you with your pants down

[GUNWOUNDS]

So...are you saying that US should pre-emptively destroy the countries that might have the ability to compete with it economically and militarily just because of their government type? That's pretty extremist and ridicilous.

actually its quite realistic.... maybe you are too young to remember what the Cold War was like with the USSR... it drove americans nuts that another country was able to challenge the USA's status as the main superpower.

[VigilVirus]

actually its quite realistic.... maybe you are too young to remember what the Cold War was like with the USSR... it drove americans nuts that another country was able to challenge the USA's status as the main superpower.

[Khan]

I don't know if china will become a superpower, they seem to me to always be on the brink of collapse, if they have some good leadership over the next few years then they will obviously become a good super power, but they need to do everything right.

[ps501]

If you believe history books, I bet that if I read a German, Italian, Japanese, Russian, and Chinese, and a US book on what "caused" WW I - I bet I would get 6 different opinions written by 6 differenet historians in 6 countries with 6 different point of views.... (as I'm sure all wars would have similar opinions based on the country/political system of orgin)

So back to the causes of the Korean war...  I believe there were many contributing factors (countries), but ultimately it was the north that invaded the south that marked the "start" of the war.  Though you could argue that if Japan still occupied it, then everything would be different... yada...

http://www.multied.com/korea/causes.html

[Khan]

Strange that you say that everyone has a different opinion on what caused certain wars, and then give your own opinion as if we should scept it as the correct view.

[Megashrap]

The fact of the matter is, during the next fifty years US will most likely lose their superpower status, no matter how hard they try not to. All nations rise and fall and the next nation to rise will probably be China.

I was reading on this subject earlier this morning and came across several great points made that were clear, precise and obvious. honestly I would have to agree with a few very good points made from what I read...

"For the United States to "fall" relative to the other majors, it would have to experience a disaster of the most catastrophic kind that affected only Americans and their economy-and no others. And, concomitantly, for the other majors to "rise" relative to the United States, one (or more) of them would have to undergo a massive transformation of capacity while the United States remained at current levels. Absent such a catastrophe, even the most optimistic assessment of the capacities of the other majors relative to the United States would lead to the view articulated by Nye a decade ago: the United States is "bound to lead." For none of the contenders can match the overwhelming capacity of the United States in the combined and linked areas of military technology, scientific research, size and strength of economy, lack of dependence on external intercourse, attraction of culture, and political unity."

Not only does the United States retain the massive nuclear arsenal it developed during the Cold War, but it also remains the only country in the world with a truly global airlift capability. Because of quantum improvements in targetting accuracy, mainly involving GPS (global positioning system) technology, American forces have the ability to engage in highly precise bombing, as the 78-day bombing campaign against Yugoslavia in 1999. clearly showed.12 Moreover, the defence industrial base in the United States is unmatched by any other country in size, sophistication, and complexity. In a similar fashion, the United States dominates access to space, crucial for both civilian and military missions."

I think anything is possible, and i'm not trying to boast the U.S. as being a 'God almighty status'. But there are actual reasons we are maintaing Hyperpower status that no other nation can rival currently. Wether hated or liked it's just fact. And I don't see a fall anytime soon by any means.