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[Tako]

good point let the mnoderator place the thread there and be done with it!

[TMA_1]

huh? in the dungeon? lol

[Anathema]

It's not the dungeon, it's off limits for me too.

[Dante]

Before it was moved that was actually a link to this topic. Why it no longer works I do not know.

[MrFlibble]

Well, perhaps it has been discussed before, but I'm too lazy to look through... Sorry...

That's about Guild Navigators. In the first Dune book, Duke Leto tells Paul that it is forbidden to have contact with Guild Navigators for non-guild people and hence no one has ever seen what do they look like. But in Dune Messiah we see a Guild Navigator openly coming to the Emperor's Court. Why? Or was it done secretly?

And another one: in some of the books I've read that Navigators look like humans but their limbs are deformed due to constant contact with Spice (almost typed 'Tiberium', lol :)). And in the EBfD, if you have an enlarged view of a NIAB (oh, how does it read? is it an abbreviation?) Tank, the Navigator inside looks like a small sandworm. And they say "Yes, human?" as if they were not humans anymore...

[Tako]

as paul new all, he also new hwat the navigators looked like,

( the guild no longer controled the spice they where instead conroled by Paul muad'dib and his threat to destroy the spice)

also in the first book they worked in secret it was forbidden to make contact yourself but they could make contact. Due to the swiching of the balance of power they maight have changed there ways..

EBfD has no ligitimet ties to the books/movies what so ever, they have there own interpretation and so events there have no effect on the vision of dune.

The guld people are however no longere really human or they concider them selfes more than mere humans

[Dante]

Paul couldn't have known what the navigators looked like using his abilities, because each of them projected a 'blank' area around themselves where his sight could not penetrate. That's why the group in Messiah had Edric with them. As long as the navigator was near, all of their activities were hidden from Paul's sight.

Was it ever directly stated that Edric was a navigator? He was an ambassador from the Guild, yes, but could he navigate? Mohiam and Scytale treated him almost like a child.

[Anathema]

NIAB = Navigator in a bottle.

"I am a full Guild Navigator and have the power," Edric said.

I think that the conspirators (even Irulan talked about him as if he were a mere device) treated him as a child because despite having a certain degree of prescience and be mathematicly gifted like all navigators, he's still an idiot outside of that. Simply put, I don't think navigators can understand normal humans and the way they think.

[Mahdi]

Paul saw a navigator.  A navigator (at the beggining of his carreer) was in the throne room when he killed Feyd.  It was with him who Paul organized the submission of the Guild. 

The Guild were so secretive because they did not want anyone to know there reliance on spice.  Once Paul made that public knowledge, the need for secrecy was gone.

[Anathema]

Those Guildsmen were failed navigators as I recall (they only had the blue eyes, guised by contact lenses) and would never have piloted a highleiner. Therew ouldn't be any reason to hide guys like them.

[Mahdi]

Those Guildsmen were failed navigators as I recall (they only had the blue eyes, guised by contact lenses) and would never have piloted a highleiner. Therew ouldn't be any reason to hide guys like them.

They were not failed navigators.  It is specificly stated that they are navigators, and considering the difference between them and Edric it is assumed they are new navigators.

[TMA_1]

yeah totally.

The old navigators, the ones that have mutated for a long period of time without any real rejection by the original human host, they are explained in the books what they look like.

EBFD made them look similar to Lynch's version of Dune. This was done because frankly they could not mimic what the books stated.

In the books they are elongated, almost aquatic looking. They have large bulbous head. They have long arms and legs and at the end, their hands and feet are also elongated and webbed. They have a utility belt and small outfit on. They are no longer human really, and those that are at a higher stage of spice forced evolution have lost almost all ties to humanity.

[Mahdi]

...the fact that WW only ahd the rights to the movie and not the books might have had something to do with there design being based ont he film as well....

[TMA_1]

well that is pretty obvious. THe navigators, harkonnen soldiers, fremen soldiers, and so much more obviously had a basis from the set and costume design of David Lynch's Dune.

[piterdevries]

hey, what happened to Leto II? Why did he become a sandworm and how did he become one??

[Khan]

*SPOILERS AHEAD FOR COD AND GEOD*

[hide]

In CoD he used the sandtrout to cover his body and form a sand worm 'suit' around him. This turned him slowly into a fully fledged sandworm until, in GEoD all that was human about him was his head, arms, and a pair of redundant legs. As to why, it was to guide the humans along the golden path, something which his father couldn't do.[/hide]

[piterdevries]

There is a part in the Dune novel where the Baron is looking for Feyd and he said he played Cheops with the slavemaster.. he lied to the Baron that he beat the slavemaster (he lost) and the slavemaster was executed. What if Feyd admitted that he lost to the slavemaster??will he be executed?

[TMA_1]

hmm I am not sure. Where is that in the book?

[Tako]

I duuno, I assumed he won, wy whould he lie about something like that?

I'm looking it up right now...

edit: page 390 Feyd is very un eas but there is nothing about him telling a lie about his (accliamed) chess problem

[piterdevries]

page 367.

just wondering about what the Baron said: "We cannot have such inept chess players in our employ."

[Tako]

page 367.

just wondering about what the Baron said: "We cannot have such inept chess players in our employ."

well pagenumbers can differ in any translation (mine is dutcht so..)

the baron wanted to teach feyd a lesson so he made up  a ridiculus rule so he could punnish feyd, kill a eployee of feyd (or atleast a henchman) and keep his grip over nefud.. nothing about him killing feyd if he had lost

[Anathema]

He also ordered to kill 2 other guards in that scene because he did not like the way they walked IIRC. Actually he had discovered that these two were loyal to Feyd, just like the slavemaster.

[piterdevries]

is it true that the baron has sexual attractions to feyd?

[Khan]

It's never overtly mentioned, but it is strongly hinted at, especially in the lynch film.

[TheSilverTurtle]

My apologies if this has already been answered, didn't read the whole thread, but;

Is it merely the shield that explodes when a laser hits it, or does the firing lasgun also explode in sub-atomic-explosiony death?

I'm wondering because, although both firer and target explode in E:BFD, the impression I got from the books was always that it was simply the shielded target that did, and the lasgun-firer was only killed because they would be within the blast radius  ???