Is Star Trek an example of communism?

[alchemi2]

Having just read the Animal Farm thread and responses, this occurred to me and i didn't want to clutter up that thread by going off topic.

What sort of society is Earth depicted as in the Star Trek series?

Having watched all the Next Generation episodes and the other off shoot series, i belive that Earth has evolved into a communised society where people pursue their ambitions and develop their talents to their full potential.

[Tako]

you know I always thought that communism was about the state dictating what everybody should do and the people do it. The good of the state is more importent than the will of the individual.

now I could make this a very long post but I think this does it for now

The people in the federation are more free to do what they want, not commi to me...

Maybe the Borg are comunnists then, but not the federation.

[Anathema]

Not exactly. By definition, there is no state in a communist "system" (look up some of Edric's posts if interested in this subject).

The Federation in Star Trek is socialist. There is no money, everybody has enough to go by, but there is a government, and a hiearchy of state.

Actually, the Borg are indeed far closer to communism then the Federation because all drones are equal, and nobody is above eachother because everybody is merged into a single collective.

[Caid Ivik]

Federation has a government, perhaps socialistic, but surely not communist. I support the Borg theory  ;D

[Anathema]

*fakes Edric's voice*

We are commies. You will be assimilated. Your possesions will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile

;D

[Dude_Doc]

What sort of society is Earth depicted as in the Star Trek series?

The way I see it is that Star Trek is indeed a Communist society. They never talk about money, for one. There is no racism, no hate amongst the members of the Federation nor against new aliens they encounter. Women has the same rights and ranks as men do, and so on.

Another thing I have discovered is that there are no thefths because of personal profit. The crimes commited are done so often because another enemy empire told them to, or promised them a great reward. But never because of personal gain (for example, a person aboard Enterprise decides to steal a, uh, TV because he don't have one himself or because he can sell that TV for a better price etc.).

There is also a religious aspect. Note that many aliens in Star Trek has their own morals and beleifs, some believe in God, others in honour and duty, and so on. When on a mission, they are never judged as idiots or morons for believeing this and that, they are treated as equals and their religious beliefs and practices are respected.

If Star Trek would be a capitalist society, aliens with religious beliefs would be disregarded as religious maniacs, their ways of living as foolish and "un-human", and so on. People with special abilities would be disregarded as freaks and so on. Most commanders and high-ups would look down on other aliens as beasts and there would be overall discrimination and corruption. Star Trek as we know it, would not have gone far.

Oh, don't forget the commercials. I haven't seen one commercial in Star Trek yet (note: IN the series, not ABOUT the series).

Having watched all the Next Generation episodes and the other off shoot series, i belive that Earth has evolved into a communised society where people pursue their ambitions and develop their talents to their full potential.

Yes, and not only for the best of mankind, but for the best of all members of the Federation. That's why there are many members and so much cooperation.

you know I always thought that communism was about the state dictating what everybody should do and the people do it. The good of the state is more importent than the will of the individual.

It is true that many people believe that the Soviet Union was the final result of Communism. But that is wrong. The Soviet Union was a dictatorship ever since Stalin took the power in his own hands. We Socialists and Communists say that the Soviet Union was stalinism. Stalinism is basically Nazism, but without the "race" thing.

Yes, it is true that in Communism and Socialism that state is what oversees the people. But wait a minute, Communism is supposed to be by the people, for the people, right? Yes - the state is a TOOL of the people, the people are not a tool of the state to use as it pleases. The state oversee and administer the people, but it is the people who controls the state. A person, in a Socialist or Communist society, that work within the state is [b[NEVER in any way better or more important than anyone who doesn't work in the state department. The state, in a Socialist or Communist society, can never decide without the approval of the people. Never. If it does so, then the society is not of the people, by the people, in other words, neither Socialist or Communist.

The state is not some kind of foreign superpower with nukes that can do whatever it pleases (or launch the nukes on you), the state is not some kind of big brother that commands everything. The state IS YOU. What would the state do if the majority of the people plainly refused to go to war with, say, Iraq? Kill them? Yes, that would surely help....  ::)

The people in the federation are more free to do what they want, not commi to me...

On the contrary, that sound very Communist. In a Communist society, you will never have to worry about getting food, healthcare or a place to live. In fact, in Star Trek these problems were probably solved decades ago. That's why they can consentrate on exploring the space, they have no silly problems to think about. They can rebuild ships without thinking about how much money it will cost. In a Communist society, people build, for example, spacecraft because they believe in getting us into space. If you fail, you can begin to rebuild the ship as soon as possible, and you would never have to think about money or how much your rich company have lost over one little mistake that no one could discover.

In a Communist society, you are free to be whatever you like to be, to believe in whatever you want to believe, to develop and share your skills, to know, when you are old, that you have fought for humanity, that in our history, you have a place as a human, not a slave for a company that will collapse in 10 years anyway. You can be known as the man who didn't want to give up going to space, not being the most hated man because you've spent the company's precious money to build a spacecraft. In a Communist society, the HUMAN always comes first. In a capitalist one, they only care about your ability, and how much money you can make for them.

Maybe the Borg are comunnists then, but not the federation.

The Borg are fascists. Their goal is to rule everything that is possible to rule.

[alchemi2]

IMO the borg is the the capitalist view of communism. no free will everyone serving the whole of society with no personal goals.

But earths society is the true reflection of communism once wealth and poverty is eliminated. personal amibtion is achievable you can go as far as your ability takes you, eduation is availble to all but no one is forced into anything.

The federation of planets are not all communist but are still excepted as developing towards that goal. The ferengie are capitalist and the Romulans facist and the Klingons feudal/imperialistic societys.

Would be interested to hear from Edric on this one ?

[Caid Ivik]

"Capitalists" (dh "non-communists") aren't automatically biased xenophobic egoistic maniacs...

[Anathema]

I haven't watched Star Trek enough to know if the Romulans are facists, though they're obviously a (bad) analogy to the Roman empire, wich was autocratic but not facist.

The Cardassians (IMO the most interesting of ST civilizations) are quite obviously meant to resemble the Soviet union from what I gather.

[alchemi2]

Didn't say they were! Frengie aren't xenophobes they will trade with anybody in anything.

Their society is based on profit and ones worth is judged purely on the business acumen.

Obviously Star Trek (afterall it's a TV show)polorises and projects each society at a late stage in it's development.

Cardassian society apears to be based around a Stalinist style state or possibly The Third Riech not sure on that one.

Vulcan society appears to a theocracy of some kind, even though Logic dictates them they are steeped in Mysticism.

[Anathema]

You might recognise the third reich in the Cardassians, but that's because the Cardassians posses traits shared by the facists/nazis and the stalinists, such as quasi trials and extreme nationalism.

The resemblence between Cardassians and Soviets stem (among other things) from their technology, designed to operate on less then ideal conditions and able to withstand great abuse. Also in the series the Cardassian empire is very much in decline (due to lack of recources), like the Soviet union was in the 80'ties.

[ordos45]

I forget which book it was recently, but they said the Federation was Communist, and the Ferengi keep complaining about the Federation not being capitalist throughout the series'.

[alchemi2]

Right  ;)

Here's my list then

Earth - True Communist

Romulan - Facist

Ferengie - Capitalist

Cardassian - Stalinist state

Klingon - Feudal/Imperial

Borg - Capitalist View of Communism. (The Hive society)

Vulcan - Logic based Theology

[Wolf]

Dominion - Demented Fascist Eugenics-Driven Theocracy

[Tako]

The romulan empire is somewhat based on (suprise!) the Roman Empire wich was in some way a facist form of state so I must agree on that one

there is also an resemblence to the third reigh there, on the second homeworld Remus there is a nother romulan race forced to work in the mines of Remus

they are not treatet the same and are lesser than the romulans they are forced to work by romulans see the resembelnce to the concentration camps here

(most of this is from the last film nemesis)

[Davidu]

At least! A society without the use of money. I'd love that.

On the other hand I'd love to trade.

WTF do I want?  ???

Well, the Federation is a Model. We should move into that direction.

[DukeLeto]

My view:

Federation: Highly Socialized, but government type unknown.

Romulans: Roman-style Imperialism

Klingons: Feudal Imperialism

Feregei: Capitalist

Cardassian: Hard to say, perhaps a Military Junta (when have we heard of Cardassian leaders that weren't in the military?)

Dominion: Theocracy

Vulcan: Logical "Theocracy"

[ordos45]

Cardassian: Hard to say, perhaps a Military Junta (when have we heard of Cardassian leaders that weren't in the military?)

Star Trek Deep Space Nine- The Way of the Warrior Parts I and II television episodes when the civilian government is driven into exile by the Klingon invasion.

Star Trek Deep Space Nine book "A Stitch in Time", describes how the civilian government is on the backburner to the military, even though it supposedly is autonomous.  However after the end of the Dominion War a civilian government is created through free elections, despite a military attempt to stop the new Democracy.

[Tako]

the Dominion however concists of many species

founders are fasicst

Jem

[d3m0nger]

What about the Marquis? Aren't they a gathering of several species that joined forces to fight the federation?

[Tako]

you can concider them as an political faction not a race or goverment as it is.

most of them are Bajoran cause of the fight against the cardassians and the border incident (fed. and cardi colony

[alchemi2]

Yea i agree Arutha that the federation are a group of goverments, hence why i keep say Earth rather than Federation. Most of federation comes accross as either Socialists or Comunists. The Klingons are not in the Federation rather Allies as are the Vulcans.

Marquis are freedom fighters, Bajorans IMO are a parady of either the Jews/Palestains.

IMO the Federated Planets are all either communist or moving that way, That's true communist NOT the prverted versions we see in past/present day or the Capitalist depiction of what communism would be.

There are many political ethos depicted in Star Treks at various stages of development as one would expect in in large universe. I just find it interesting that Earth is depicted as an advanced communist society (from TNG onwards).

[Acriku]

If you take a look at the movie Star Trek: Generations, when they go back in time to when the first warp jump was made, the pioneer was greedy and was only interested in fortune. Does this mean that the jump in space travel technology also forced a jump in government and economics?

[Caid Ivik]

It was First Contact, I think. Earth was after some kind of a world war or similar catastrophe then, I'm no expert trekkie so I don't know what exactly.

[Acriku]

You're right, it was First Contact. How could I forget - it's about the "first contact" between human lifeforms and alien lifeforms in the first warp jump. Anyway, do you know where I could find about this previous world war? It was set in the 21st Century, so it isn't too far into the future from the time the movie was made.