Huge Defence Cuts

Dunenewt · July 23, 2004

They already fly B52s from there don't they? With the B2 there I guess security around the base will increase dramatically.

EWS · July 23, 2004

The B52 is there temproarily and Fairford is just used as a stop off point at the moment until they can get hte infrastructure. Although the B52 Infrastructure is already there! Can u imagin the B2 flying out of Fairford!

Dunenewt · July 23, 2004

http://www.geocities.com/spacetransport/hypersoar.html Here's something about the Hypersoar. I hope it flies over my house. I live about 20 miles away from Fairford.

thomas · July 23, 2004

*sigh* EWS, we may be cowboys, but we are damn good at it. ;D

EWS · July 24, 2004

Not really....considering you can't tell an Iraqi tank from a British one. I recently spent a week at RAF Leuchars (Tornados are based from there) and was speaking to the longest serving Tornado Pilot. He was telling me that he was involved in the first night of bombing in Iraq. But strangely enough, the thing that scared him was not that he was getting shot at by the Iraqis...no, it was the fact that when he was flying back US Patriot's locked on to him and were about 30 seconds from firing until someone realised that it was a Tornado. Now, the excuse? "Oh we didn't know that Tornado's were on our side." I hope someone got fired for that....

In Iraq, do you ever see American Soldiers helping out the locals? They are always suspicious of one thing or another, however the Brits we treat them like equals. I remember seeing a quote;

"Yeah we put the RawHide music on. It gets us pumped up. Civilians or not, we shoot first then ask questions later."

Or something to that effect (You know it might have been in Farenheit 9/11 but I will double check that). So no, I don't think you do do the job better. Remember Vietnam?

shygirl4 · July 24, 2004

Hey EWS stop being so negative about our American friends, Yes they have made mistakes in the past, but so have we, and the Americans have given there lives for us in the past, (remember (WW2)they are our allies, and in war mistakes are made, but one thing is for certain, they wouldnt deliberatly shoot at allie soldiers, it was a mistake, (computer error perhaps ?.

Shy ::)

Dunenewt · July 24, 2004

Can't wait for Labour, and more importantly, Gordon Brown to be out of power. Hopefully they wont cancel the new Nimrod Mk4's.

EWS · July 24, 2004

I would rather that we stayed the same professional military that we are, rather then cowboys. I do not like the American military at all (well maybe the Air Force, but thats cos they have aircraft.)

They have something called IFF on board British Aircraft. It means Identify Friend or Foe. Now, how on earth did it get passed the Americans? Did they just ignore it?

Wolf · July 24, 2004

What is the Regimental system? Is it any different than the US' approach of Company/Battalion/Regiment/Brigade/Division/Corps?

I am sad to hear of this news, however. The British have one of the most distinguished military histories in the world over. And, even in the modern world, a good navy is the cornerstone of global military operations. Without it, you lose your mobility, and the ability to strike beyond your homeland.

And Caid's right, y'all might as well buy SU-37s. Even if its performance isn't near enough other aircraft, like the JSF or Raptor, it still looks gorgeous.

Dunenewt · July 24, 2004

The performance of the raptor or Just So Fat is easy to beat.

ordos45 · July 24, 2004

In Iraq, do you ever see American Soldiers helping out the locals? They are always suspicious of one thing or another, however the Brits we treat them like equals.

Actually yes I have seen American soldiers helping out the locals. Also reading an online journal of someone over there has helped me understand why a lot of our troops seem to be aloof (other than the fact a good many are just jerks who are aloof). They're not supposed to wave or anything first and seem too friendly. I wonder who the [sarcasm]genius[/sarcasm] at the Pentagon was who came up with that idea.

As for the Falklands, I have faith in British forces there to hold an invasion off if it occurs. And faith in Bush, if he's re-elected, not to turn down a shooting war close to home unfortunately...

number6 · July 24, 2004

They have something called IFF on board British Aircraft.

Dunenewt · July 24, 2004

No, the American's haven't installed a receptor for the IFF signal on all their equipment.

exatreide · July 24, 2004

you brits acuse us of being cowboys and opresing the people...

Have you all forgotten a little thing called the victorian period?!?!?!

but i do think that if bush gets re elected the country will be closer to imperialism then ever before..

[attachment archived by Gobalopper]

ordos45 · July 24, 2004

Brief Staff Note: Sorry I kept getting an error when I tried to make a redirect topic from General. So I apologize if anyone was thrown off by it not being there and no notice of its whereabouts.

Dunenewt · July 24, 2004

Hehe Ex that's what I thought about Hypersoar.

Nononono, I meant for this topic to be purely military tslk, none of this PRP rubbish.

Caid Ivik · July 25, 2004

you brits acuse us of being cowboys and opresing the people...
Have you all forgotten a little thing called the victorian period?!?!?!
but i do think that if bush gets re elected the country will be closer to imperialism then ever before..

Victorian period seems to me like some kind of golden age, like what we here had in times of Maria Theresia or Joseph II...

nemafakei · July 25, 2004

"Have you all forgotten a little thing called the victorian period?!"

Do we claim that our history has been perfect? No, we accept that our past is full of shameful things, and we are not proud of what is shamful. Strangely enough, we're no longer in the Victorian era or before. Our mindset has progressed...

Edric O · July 25, 2004

First of all, doesn't this topic belong in General?

Second of all:

I'm worried about the Falklands. There will be a gap in 2006 when the Harriers (both RAF and RN) wont be in service. During this time apparently we will be basically powerless to stop an Argentian invasion.

Heh, have you been paying attention to the news from Argentina lately? The Argentinian government isn't in a position to invade anyone right now... in fact, it can barely manage to keep control of the country.

Hey EWS stop being so negative about our American friends, Yes they have made mistakes in the past, but so have we, and the Americans have given there lives for us in the past, (remember (WW2)they are our allies, and in war mistakes are made, but one thing is for certain, they wouldnt deliberatly shoot at allie soldiers, it was a mistake, (computer error perhaps ?.
Shy ::)

There was a time when Americans gave their lives to defend Britain, and there was a time when Americans gave their lives to defeat Britain.

Times change.

you brits acuse us of being cowboys and opresing the people...
Have you all forgotten a little thing called the victorian period?!?!?!

As I said, times change. Not that the British ruling class is in any way better than the American one, of course, but the First World has advanced beyond victorian-style hellish exploitation and pure capitalism. Don't worry, though - some people are working hard to bring it back (complete with disease-infested slums for the working class, and all other exciting features).

Edric O · July 25, 2004

Victorian period seems to me like some kind of golden age, like what we here had in times of Maria Theresia or Joseph II...

I suggest you go read some Charles Dickens.

Caid Ivik · July 25, 2004

I suggest you to compare that time to any other specific period of british history. Excluding reign of premiers Thatcher and Major, it's hard to find something better.

Edric O · July 25, 2004

I suggest you to compare that time to any other specific period of british history.

That's what I did. And I invite you to do the same comparison yourself. The victorian period had the following wonderful features:

- For the first time since the Black Death, average life expectancy for the general population dropped instead of rising; the average man lived only about 40 years.

- There were the highest levels of pollution in recorded history; smog was so thick on some days that you could barely see, let alone breathe.

- Children as young as 8 worked in factories and coal mines.

- The working day was 12 hours long.

- Workplace accidents were commonplace and your employer had no responsibility for what happened to you.

- You had every chance to catch tuberculosis or various other diseases at work. In fact, pollution and disease were the main reasons for the low life expectancy (followed closely by starvation).

- Wages were barely sufficient to keep you alive.

- Houses were dirty and crowded. Entire families had to live in one tiny room, and privacy was out of the question.

- There was no adequate healthcare for the common man.

- Class mobility was almost non-existant; if you were born poor, you would die poor.

- If you had a baby, he/she would most likely die in the first year of life.

- Your life was divided between working like a slave in hellish conditions, eating what little food you could afford, and sleeping (presumably the only activity that wasn't outright painful). There was no such thing as "fun". You were lucky to be alive.

Excluding reign of premiers Thatcher and Major, it's hard to find something better.

Ha ha ha, well, I'm sure old Maggie tried really hard to make life for the average Brit as bad, miserable, hopeless and short as it was during the 19th century, but I'm afraid she failed at it.

Oh, and by the way, what exactly is your definition of "better"? See, the rest of us have this strange idea that "better" means people living longer and healthier, having access to better education, having decent homes, working in good conditions, receiving a better pay and enjoying more human rights. In each and every one of those categories, the victorian period was the WORSE in British history.

So, again, what kind of twisted idea of "good" and "bad" do you have? Wait, I think I know: The victorian period distinguished itself by the fact that the rich were incredibly rich, the gap between rich and poor was the greatest in modern history, and vast amounts of wealth were held by a parasitic aristocracy who worked even less than present-day big business capitalists (the aristocrats simply inherited all their wealth).

Is that your idea of "good", I wonder?

HasimirFenring · July 25, 2004

The Victorian period could be seen as a golden age in terms of England's position as a world superpower, both militarily and ecenomically, but other than that, I wouldn't want to live in it...

Caid Ivik · July 25, 2004

Those are your views, swayed by black glasses of marxistic propaganda. Victorian age (in fact it's nearly a century, so we can't talk about it as some short period) brought cultural and political advance, which Britain had not witnessed since Cromwell's revolution. Fact that people like Dickens, Mill, Joyce, Doyle or even (written with closed eyes and and shameful feeling for putting him between such literal giants) Engels could write their books there does mean the country was on some intellectual level then. You say that victorian age was a dark time of poverty - I would say that it was time, when people started to understand it and do something for it! But if you think that british middle class enjoyed better standards ie during Plantagenets...

Our view on development level is very different. You're a materialist, having one exact criterium of large and wealthy middle class, with equal chance to "have fun", have illusion of holding life in own hands, and of course education, what is an area where I strongly agree with you. And what you have to admit, that queen Victoria supported.

The Victorian period could be seen as a golden age in terms of England's position as a world superpower, both militarily and ecenomically, but other than that, I wouldn't want to live in it...

I wouldn't like to live in any age before today, excluding a possibility to be a part of high nobility or university elite ;)

Barbarossa · July 25, 2004

I'm worried about the Falklands.

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