Suboids and Ix

Procyon · January 8, 2004

What are the suboids? If they are mindless humans that were created, why they don`t work for the Tleilaxu instead of Ix?

TMA_1 · January 8, 2004

argh, dont mention suboids, stupid creation! bleh...lol

anyways wouldnt that be a pretty simple idea to cover? They were created by house vernius, therefore they work for house vernius. Just because there was some biological dabbling doesnt mean the tleilaxu have to be involved.

Andrew · January 8, 2004

Over time they could have genetically been changed that way from normal humans because of the environment.

Leto le Juste · January 8, 2004

Ix house is not able to created suboids cause it is a too risky chance program and it is cost too much too buy such a biotechno.

Necroticon · January 29, 2004

Suboids... hmmm... are they the Ix slaves? the ones that revolt in one of the emperor missions? So easily killed.

Bring in a group of 6 or 7 fremen warriors, watch the slaughter begin...

Vanguard3000 · January 29, 2004

In the prequels, the Suboids were the mindless workhorses of House Vernius of Ix. Essentially yes, they were slaves, but their will had been bred out of them, so they were oblivious of the concepts of bondage or freedom.

Vanguard3000 · January 29, 2004

In the prequels, House Vernius were the Ixians. That is, the planet Ix was controlled by House Vernius.

Emperor Harkonnen · January 29, 2004

later other houses has also controlled the planet. that is why people of ix are called ixians, and not like the inhabitants of Giedi Prime which get the name of their house, Harkonnens.

Harq al-Harba · January 29, 2004

In the prequels, the Suboids were the mindless workhorses of House Vernius of Ix.

TMA_1 · January 29, 2004

I dont think that it is only for the tleilaxu, at least for the suboids. this is why.

One, the ixians (vernius) hated the tleilaxu, and didnt want anything to do with them.

two, the type of genetic manipulation for making suboids is relatively simple compared to making gholas, face dancers and so on. People only came to the tleilaxu for the products with which only they could make because of the axolotl tank. such as twisted mentats, face dancers, blah blah. You dont need the axolotl tank for certain kinds of genetic manipulation, but the axolotl tank is the only source for those special genetic tamperings that only the tleilaxu had. Many houses asked for other things that are relatively simple, sex slaves and the like, but the technology that ix had seems to me that they could do some of their own sorts of primitive genetic manipulation.

three, to ask the tleilaxu to make that many suboids would be murder to the pocket books to the ixians.

Also, I forgot, but were they genetically manipulated beings? or were they just slowly bred through generations to destroy their will?

Inoculator9 · January 29, 2004

I imagine it involved genetics but I can't be sure.

And honestly, I don't think the Ixians in the original series would make anything remotely like Suboids. It... it just doesn't seem in character with the tech-wizards they are. And the Tleilaxu wouuldn't do that because Tleilaxu creations have loyalty and the like molded during their growth in axlotl tanks. A will-less sub-human wouldn't be necessary, because gholas and face dancers have no reason in their minds, to revolt.

TMA_1 · January 30, 2004

remember tleilaxu creatures werent all loyal, piter is an example.

Not only that, tleilaxu creations that are loyal are bred to subtrifuge, bred to blend in with the enemy so that they can destroy from the inside out. so that isnt an issue.

I dont think it is an issue that the suboids couldnt be created by the ixians, because that kind of genetic tempering doesnt require an axolotl tank. Is it illegal? probably, but it could be done pretty easily by outside forces with such technology. I just think it was bad writing to create the suboids, for many reasons that I could not list in the amount of time I have right now.lol

Inoculator9 · January 30, 2004

Oh, of course Tleilaxu creations could be disloyal, I just meant the ones they used themselves. They seem almost unfailingly loyal, at least to their specific master.

Vanguard3000 · January 30, 2004

I seem to recall that the Suboids were "bred" (with some tampering) rather than "grown".

Like TMA, I don't really like the idea of the Suboids at all. Of course, I don't particularly approve of Ix being House-controlled. I always saw it as a para-Landsraad organization.

TMA_1 · January 30, 2004

yeah, I saw it as somewhat connected, like they were a people from before the jihad "programites". Thought of them as more of a disconnected confederacy of sorts. Working for the landsraad as you say.

Andrew · January 30, 2004

I thought of them as "equals" as tleilaxu, Guild and Bene Gesserit.

They were not really a house.

Egeides · January 30, 2004

erm... are these suboids from FRANK Herbert? Sorry, my memory doesn't clearly recall these things.

Emperor Harkonnen · January 30, 2004

why wouldn't ix be house controlled? does the original books say anything about it?

what does the DE say about it?

TMA_1 · January 30, 2004

the DE says that the ixians, along with the richesians come from Komos (think that is the right spelling) and were originally "programmites". They were on the side of thinking machines, they were eventually chased, and were some of the only remaining groups of technological makers that originated from pre jihad times. The guild came from the same people, and even the tleilaxu might have been pro computer castes that hid after the jihad. at least that is what the DE says.

In one of the dune books, frank herbert wrote that it was a confederacy, if I remember right. It is NEVER mentioned that they are a house, or have a ruling family.

Andrew · January 30, 2004

Frank Herbert never wrote about suboids that I know of.

(Brian and Kevin idea)

Vanguard3000 · January 31, 2004

Frank never mentioned much about Ix at all, really. It was merely the mysterious origin of technological goodies. It is never said that they are a part of the Landsraad proper, and like TMA, I recall an allusion to the "Ixian Confederacy".

Emperor Harkonnen · January 31, 2004

but the richese is a house, why would Ix be as well?

Inoculator9 · January 31, 2004

Yes, in Chapterhosue and Heretics, Ix was refered to as the Ixian Confederacy.

Dante · January 31, 2004

Does that mean that they were always a confederacy though? Or just that they became one?

TMA_1 · January 31, 2004

I dont recall richese being a house in the original books, only in the prequels as well.

I remember it being called a confederacy, or mentioning it even in messiah, could be wrong though. it never implies it to be a house at all.

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