MS closing down MSN chat rooms ? (Messenger Diversion)

[Navaros]

i didn't hear that they are doing that

what they *ARE* doing is forcing everyone to upgrade to the latest version of MSN Messenger so as they can force their latest ads/spwyare down every one's throat

i use MSN Messenger 3.6 because it has no ads or spyware, no asinine "I want to..." columns taking up 20% of my screen etc. etc. but MS is telling me that i have to upgrade because right now i am not being subjected to enough of their spyware and adware as everyone who uses the later versions of MSN Messenger is ::)

on October 15, i'm moving to Trillian. so far MS has said that they are going block Trillian too (they want EVERYONE to be subjected to their MSN spyware and adware, of course!) and Trillian has said that they will hack MSN to bypass the blocking. let's hope Trillian sticks to their guns

[Cyborg]

Why they really want you to update your MSN Messenger is because the newer versions are much more safe to use when thinking of viruses, security holes, etc., etc.

No spyware is included with the Messenger program, (however, if it is true that MSN Messenger comes with spyware, you get many times more by just surfing the web. Please, Navaros, do stop surfing the web, you may get spyware on your computer...), but there is a small ad-field at the bottom of the program with ads that you don't really notice. Furhtermore, the new versions have many new features, look nicer, and are generally just better.

I urge you to update your MSN Messenger to the latest version available, Navaros.

[Navaros]

Cyborg --- have you ever used MSN Mesesnger 3.6? try it out and you'll see that it has NO spyware, obscene flashing ads, and horrible "i want to..." columns blocking most of your view of the screen (the i want to column is just a list of programs which have paid-off MS to be listed there AGAINST YOUR WILL)

saying the update is for "Security" is bull crap. it is *my* choice of if i want to take a "Security risk" or not. MSN does not even ever *mention* all the new Ads and spyware in the "what's new" section of their README files. because they want to mask it all under the BS Red Herring of "Security"

i would attach the install file to prove to you all how infinitely less adware and spyware-laden 3.6 is, but this site won't let me attach .exe files

[Cyborg]

Microsoft does not force you to update your Messenger, Navaros.

You just get politely asked if you want to download the new version or not. This is a nice way to inform people that they can download a new version of MSN Messenger with fixed security and maybe a few new features.

The "I want to" column can be shortened to only showing the "add a contact" option. This is very nice, and saves space. However, those who want to, can click on the arrow icon to make the list larger, so they can have some more options (e.g sending a file, search for a contact or play a game).

In the latter versions of MSN Messenger you can play games with your friends. These are free of charge, and fun if you have nothing else to do. And as with everything else on MSN Messenger, you can choose whether or not to play these games. Just because a service is available, it doesn't mean that you're forced to use it, Navaros...

Saying that the update is for security reasons, is not "bull crap" at all. You may very well get more spyware than me because of your security holes for all I know. Something I do know, though is that the amount, if some at all, of spyware you get from MSN Messenger is very, very minimal.

It drowns in all the spyware you get from just surfing the internet itself.

[Navaros]

Cyborg - you are very misinformed. MS *IS* forcing everyone to upgrade. read my first post in this thread before commenting on something you are not educated about.

the "I want to..." column itself is spyware seeing as any program that has happened to paid-off MS is permanently listed there AUTOMATICALLY, AGAINST YOUR WILL.

and there is nothing "polite" about their pop-up reminders. it has a checkbox for "don't ask me again for 1 week" --- where the Hell is the checkbox for "don't ask me again, EVER"?

now MSN is committing the ultimate atrocity by forcing everyone to upgrade to their latest version simply to ensure all the ads and spyware which are not being viewed by people with MSN Messenger 3.6 or lower now get those eyeballs too

[Cyborg]

I am sorry for going off topic, but I just feel like informing Navaros here about how the new MSN Messenger versions really work.

I know you're only familiar with the old versions, but let me just tell you that in the new updates, everything you said is gone.

The "I want to" column only contains a few links, mainly for managing buddies, files, and those few games. Nothing more, nothing less.

The pop-up reminders never pop up again after you've checked the box. What do you think it's there for?

You, Navaros, are a great example that Microsoft does not force their updates on anyone. You say you still have 3.6!

Just informing you of something is not forcing you to do something.

Since you do not make any contructive replies but to say the same in all your posts in here, let us end this discussion here.

[Navaros]

Cyborg, you have not read what i said and you keep repeating yourself. i was trying to point out that you are wrong and my posts have already done that. anyone reading them thoroughly (which you have obviously not done) will see that i am right and you are wrong. agreed, i'm done replying to you since you don't even bother to read the facts of the matter.

[Khan]

Don't say sorry If you're just going to keep going off topic, but I know what you mean Cyborg, Nav spreads so much misinformation. ;)

[Atomic Mitten]

Maybe you guys should open a new thread called, let's flame each other !

No wonder you got a post limit, but you don't learn, do you Nav. >:(

[Cyborg]

Not being rude, but that post was very childish of you, Navaros. You really should know better than posting that. I did not wish to argue with you in the first place, because you never change your mind, thus it is just a waste of time to argue at all.

Anyway, back to the topic.

It's very bad that people ruin the chat service for others.

I don't use it, but I hate people ruining things.

I won't miss it though.

[Andrew]

I agree with Navaros that they add a bunch of more crap to the programs that the user may not use. Just look at both ICQ and msn messenger, both were adfree at one time, now they got ads and other stuff that you may accidentally click on that will interrupt your online experience. They should have options as to wether you want certain features added.

By adding more stuff to the program, you hvae to make the programs window larger to see what you really want to see, thus the program is getting more time/space compared to when it was smaller with less options other than to just IM a person.

ICQ tried to get out of the problem by creating ICQ-lite, which partially solved the problem, but was missing some key features the older ICQ versions had.

8)

Microsoft against Trillian

Whatever happened to ICQ being the best/largest IM service?? now its all msn, aol IM and yahoo IM

did AOL abandon ICQ????? >:( they buy it off some students, then stop supporting it. lol

hopefully ICQ's next version will crush competition and force microsoft to by it off of AOL. ;) actually the newer ICQ gets the worse it gets.

[Andrew]

Sorry for double posting, but it looks like Yahoo IM is doing the same thing as msn messenger is doing.

http://www.betanews.com/article.php3?sid=1063876826

Also some other IM news:

http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article.php/3075021

New Califonia law says no spam from california to california or you can sue them.

http://www.forbes.com/2003/09/24/cx_da_0924topnews.html

Another thing about ICQ is its spam. if you go to chat with a friend feature 99% of it is trying to sell something like porn. I remember when it never was like that.

[Navaros]

Cyborg is just arguing with me because he has hated me for the longest time. he can not dispute the facts that i've stated in this thread. he is just promoting the evil MS Corp. out of spite for me.

atomic - don't post flaming spam to me in threads that are not about me. if you want to start a new thread about me in which you flame me, feel free.

thane - where have i ever spread misinformation? anything i ever say on this site is 100% true and accurate to the best of my ability.

here is screenshot of what MSN Messenger 3.6 looks like. notice how there is no invasive Ads assualting my eyeballs. notice how there is no asinine spyware/"i want too..." columns blocking most of my view of the screen.

notice the beautiful blankness. paradise. this is what MSN Messenger looked like *BEFORE* the marketing jerks at MSN had their board meetings and decided that with each new release of MSN Messenger: "we have to be sure to cram as much ads and spyware into this release as possible!"

the *ONLY* real reason that MS is forcing the upgrade like the Nazi-esque Terror Regime that MicroSoft is - is to force people like *me* to be subjected to their new ads and spyware. that way they can get more money from their advertisers/spyware partners.[attachment archived by Gobalopper]

[Babylon]

First a few examples of your '100% true and accurate to the best of my ability':

-ads/spwyare in msn messenger

WRONG! Msn Messenger does have ads, but no adware. Messenger does not send personal information of you to Microsoft servers. The ads you get are not specificly designed for you. If you really want to be sure Msn Messenger doesn't have ad/spyware download Ad-aware. Then you will see that Msn Messenger isn't mentioned in their lists.

-forcing everyone to upgrade

WRONG! In the time that I have used Msn Messenger NEVER did it automaticly update or disabled it self becuase I didn't update. I allways have a choice. So does everyone else.

-there AGAINST YOUR WILL

WRONG! You don't know what Cyborg, mine, or anyone else for that matter, will is.

-saying the update is for "Security" is bull crap

WRONG! Because Microsoft programs are the most used programs in the world these day, virusmakers and hackers will target Microsoft first (get the biggest company, do the most damage). That and the fact that Microsoft isn't good at protecting their security in the first place results in lots of security isseu's. Everytime a new exploit is discovered Microsoft has to release a security patch. Allmost all of the Msn Messenger patches are security related. New version of Msn Messenger hold new options.

-where the Hell is the checkbox

WRONG! Since you are still using 3.6 you haven't even seen how Msn Messenger 6 handles this. This is a assumption you are making.

-he can not dispute the facts

WRONG! He can't because your 'facts' are in fact not facts

-Nazi-esque Terror Regime that MicroSoft

WRONG! Never has MicroSoft been convicted of Nazi-eque handling, Terrorist actions, nor is it a Regime.

In conclusion: in this thread you are basing your arguments on so called 'facts' that are NOT 100% true and accurate. If this is the best of your ability, I can't possibly take you serious. Search for real facts before you spawn your crap here!

[Navaros]

again we another person with a personal vendetta against me, namely babylon, who is ignoring the blatant facts of the matter and posting nonsense in response to me simply because he hates me.

honestly, can't you guys all start a "flame Nav" thread instead of posting incorrect information about all these other things in a veiled attempt to undermine me even though the facts that i have stated are beared out by reality.

[Babylon]

again we another person with a personal vendetta against me, namely babylon, who is ignoring the blatant facts of the matter and posting nonsense in response to me simply because he hates me.

honestly, can't you guys all start a "flame Nav" thread instead of posting incorrect information about all these other things in a veiled attempt to undermine me even though the facts that i have stated are beared out by reality.

I don't want to start a personal vendetta. My problem with you is, is that you post non-facts, opinions and assumptions as if they where facts and bash everyone that doesn't agree with you. I don't post my post because I hate you.

And if you are so sure about your 'facts', show me prove. Give me links, make screens. But you wont. Your way is: posting nonsense, getting critics, flame the critics.

again we another person with a personal vendetta against meASSUMPTION, namely babylon, who is ignoring the blatant facts of the matter and posting nonsense in response to meNONSENSE (I stay on topic, I just don't agree with you) simply because he hates me.ASSUMPTION

honestly, can't you guys all start a "flame Nav" thread instead of posting incorrect information about all these other thingsNONSENSE (My information is correct) in a veiled attempt to undermine me even though the facts that i have stated are beared out by reality.NONSENSE (They are your one ideas)

[Navaros]

babylon - my words are facts. look them up and see

here is why you hate me, same reason Dust Scout and MechaDragonX hates me:

http://www.dune2k.com/forum/?board=34;action=display;threadid=11334;start=msg191197#msg191197

you call yourself a bi-sexual and we all know that I am Christian and i am not cool with that. so instead of venting your vendetta against me in this and other offtopic threads, why don't you take it over here http://www.dune2k.com/forum/?board=2;action=display;threadid=11919

thx

(my sincerest apologies for taking this post slightly offtopic, but everyone should be aware of and understand the exact reason why babylon is posting untrue things, simply for the sake of contradicting me, in this thread)

[Atomic Mitten]

Or it may be that you send people foul mouthed IM's !!

So don't be surprised when people react.

By the way I will not stfu.

Not for you and not for anybody. ::)

[Nyarlathotep]

MSN messenger does NOT put spyware on your pc. That's where Nav is wrong. However, the later versions of MSN that Nav mentions, are getting more and more annoying concerning the ads. I personally do not pay attention to them, which has stopped me getting annoyed by them, but I can understand that people want the older versions back though.

Nav, to check for spyware, go to pc pitstop and run the full test on the left of the page. Once finished, it'll provide you all kinds of info about your pc and it's health. It also shows you what programs are running. If you have spyware on your pc, it'll find it. I've ran the test several times and while having MSN 6.0, no spyware comes up. To show that it actually could detect spyware, I installed spyware and it found it.

Nav, this isn't a flame, I even partially agree with you. But your spyware assumptions are just wrong.

[Navaros]

MSN *DOES* put spyware on my computer because it scans my computer for programs that have paid-off MicroSoft Corp. and automatically permanently adds them to the "i want to..." column

i don't care if you (not you in particular Nyar, but you meaning you and anyone in the Universe) call it spyware or not. as far as i am concerned, any software which scans my computer against my will and without telling me - to find every program i have on my hard drive - *IS* spyware; and the later versions of MSN Messenger *DO* do that!

[Nyarlathotep]

MSN *DOES* put spyware on my computer because it scans my computer for programs that have paid-off MicroSoft Corp. and automatically permanently adds them to the "i want to..." column

i don't care if you (not you in particular Nyar, but you meaning you and anyone in the Universe) call it spyware or not. as far as i am concerned, any software which scans my computer against my will and without telling me - to find every program i have on my hard drive - *IS* spyware; and the later versions of MSN Messenger *DO* do that!

With that statement Nav, you call all software spyware. This because every program that needs updates is looking for previous installed software. Every program is searching your harddrive.

[Cyborg]

The problem you have in this discussion, Navaros is that you didn't think much before you wrote your first post, and some of content was not correct.

I agree with you that the ads are a bit annoying. It costs a lot to update the Messenger, and to support the use of it, and those money must come from somewhere.

It is not flaming to argue with you, Navaros. Even if you say so.

You know that very well, so I don't care very much when you say words like vendetta, flaming, and spam, because they don't mean what they're supposed to when coming from you.

You also know extremely well that you have very little to stand on in this debate, because it started with me just pointing out something wrong in your post that annoyed me.

There is really no point in this discussion at all, and the point dissapeared after my first post was posted. It was not an argument, but an informative post, maybe misinterpreted by Navaros.

[gryphon]

Ironically I just was with a guy who started his own messenger server . .he had some problems loggin in to it with an MSN messenger client. . .it was kind of funny to do. :)

Anyway, the last time I say a anual Microsoft report they are still loosing money on the MSN messenger software / server. They reason they keep it up is most likely to keep a leading or compateting marketing share. Seems that The netherlands has one of the biggest usage % of the MSN messenger software. And I must admit that every time I am using Gaim instead of MSN6 I really miss the webcam next to the chat screen. . .

In a way I agree with you that Microsoft is acting a little overreacted with it's current strategy. Although the Windows OS also scans your computer and sends information about it to Microsoft. Without your knowledge [ or without mentioning it in any of the Windows software, as at this point it isn't beyond your knowledge anymore . . anyway. . you get my point ]. Is that going to stop you from using Micorsofts Windows as an OS ? If so you might wan'na start downloading a version of Linux any time soon now . . ;)

Microsoft doesn't force you to use the updated version of MSN. Where MSN [ in the MSN messenger ] stands for MicroSoft Network. . it is their network . and they are in controle of the applied security on it. You are just a user. And with all the resent security holes in that network. . . I guess that you as a user should in some way demand a better security policy from the network admins. . .and who would those admins be if they are letting user dictate them the security policy they are and should be using. It is Microsofts network. . and as such. . you can either accet it and use it. . or not.

[Andrew]

Microsoft has $40-50 billion in cash. I dont see why they would need some ads in their programs.

[Anathema]

Because there's no such thing as enough money when it comes to companies.