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thinking machines

Emperor Harkonnen
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exatreide

exatreide

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No, havnt we learned from all the movies and lititure thats going to lead to the destruction of the human race? We cant have anything like AI or the fate of humanity will be sealed...i say kill em all :)

Duncan_ghola

Duncan_ghola

Posted
Posted

I think we should let them be more intelligent than humans if its possible, at the moment robots are as smart as cockroaches and thats impressive, im not sure if they will become as smart as humans by 2020 thats a long shot but i think we need them to solve problems that would take humans a while to solve. Theres also the risk of robots getting hacked to do some unpleasant stuff

Edric O

Edric O

Posted
Posted

We'll have thinking machines in 20 years? OMG, that's wonderful! Even in my wildest dreams I couldn't imagine that capitalism would fall so soon!

(The arrival of thinking machines would cause MASSIVE changes to human society. Once this new industrial revolution is over, there will be nothing left of the old social and economic systems.)

Then again, the machines could just get pissed off and kill us all. ;D

Egeides

Egeides

Posted
Posted

Edric, if I think through your own ideology, I would rather say that the ackowledged thinking machine would be the one the richest people accept (espescially that it will probably cost alot) and it will be a wonderful tool for capitalistic control. This is not necessarily my opinion, but it seems to be a continuity to marxism. Agree? Disagree?

Besides, I knew an engineer in robotic (or almost, he was 22) and he didn,t believed we would get anything like that before quite some time. And I always was said so by pros too (scientific magazines, etc.).

SurlyPIG

SurlyPIG

Posted
Posted

As any programmer would know, artificial intelligence is an impossible concept. The extent of a computer's possible intelligence is limited by what it can be programmed to do. Even though computers can do all sorts of things, they still have no intelligence. They are dumb. They are driven by the logic of their programming and have no escape from it. They are incapable of thinking abstractly and making value judgements on things that are not measurable. It's really nothing more than a big database of pre-programmed reactions to the things you input.

EDIT : Do you put Communism into everything, Edric?

Acriku

Acriku

Posted
Posted

ACE think outside the box. What if it was possible to program how we think into the application? Such as, not literal values to interpret, but abstract variables and strings. I don't know, it's hard to put into words, but basically a step in the evolution of programs. Or we can just code in all possible choices of every scenario and write algorithms on how to recognize the situation and pick the choices.

Gobalopper

Gobalopper

Posted
Posted

Acriku there is no way to program how we think, in order to do that we would have to understand all the intricacies of how we think first. And once you overcome that problem, which itself is far from being solved, you run up against being able to convert that into 1's and 0's. We can program computers to do one thing really well but we are no where close to having computers that can duplicate humans and we won't be there in 2020 either.

SurlyPIG

SurlyPIG

Posted
Posted
ACE think outside the box. What if it was possible to program how we think into the application? Such as, not literal values to interpret, but abstract variables and strings. I don't know, it's hard to put into words, but basically a step in the evolution of programs. Or we can just code in all possible choices of every scenario and write algorithms on how to recognize the situation and pick the choices.
What makes you so sure that the complex though processes of the human mind can even be immitated by computers, let alone replicated. The capabilities of a program are limited by what it's programmer can program into it. It's like a law of physics for programming. Sure it works in Star Trek but so does travelling faster than the speed of light. There are SOOO many things we don't understand about the physical brain itself, let alone how our thoughts and memories work. Like I said, computers cannot process abstract phenomenon. It cannot observe things indirectly. Any programmer will tell you in an heartbeat just how dumb computers actually are. No matter how advanced computers become, no matter how much data they store, no matter how complex their programming is, they are bound by the programmer and will forever be simply devices that take input values and compute them to produce output values. So thinking machines will never leave the realm of pop culture, and there are many examples of such (Terminator, The Matrix, umpteen Star Trek movies and series, and essentially any science fiction of that genre). Personally I prefer it that way. What would our purpose in this world be if there were computers that could think?
Dude_Doc

Dude_Doc

Posted
Posted

I heard that AI's would win the football leauge by 2040.

Oh, and The Matrix is just pure sci-fi. In a movie-magazine, a question was asked about if something could indeed happen, and the reply was "sure, it could, but the machines would be better of with nuclear-reactors" (it's because they need so much power to have the Matrix up and going, to feed all the humans etc). But, as Matrix is based on manga/anime, Japanese consepts, the Matrix-thing was just because Japanese sci-fi is known for these "Ghost in the Shell"-kind of fiction (human relations to machines, machines with souls etc).

As for real AI, I think it's possible. Remember that AI is NOT a computer. An AI is something else, well, it's hard to explain. It's a new system, it runs without programs. You could say that a computer is a "robot" (a 'mech' that follows orders, in this case, programs, executive programming etc), and an AI is something that can think for itself, in the sence of "artificial human/being".

fremfedeliteNIAC

fremfedeliteNIAC

Posted
Posted
ACE think outside the box. What if it was possible to program how we think into the application? Such as, not literal values to interpret, but abstract variables and strings. I don't know, it's hard to put into words, but basically a step in the evolution of programs. Or we can just code in all possible choices of every scenario and write algorithms on how to recognize the situation and pick the choices.
What makes you so sure that the complex though processes of the human mind can even be immitated by computers, let alone replicated. The capabilities of a program are limited by what it's programmer can program into it. It's like a law of physics for programming. Sure it works in Star Trek but so does travelling faster than the speed of light. There are SOOO many things we don't understand about the physical brain itself, let alone how our thoughts and memories work. Like I said, computers cannot process abstract phenomenon. It cannot observe things indirectly. Any programmer will tell you in an heartbeat just how dumb computers actually are. No matter how advanced computers become, no matter how much data they store, no matter how complex their programming is, they are bound by the programmer and will forever be simply devices that take input values and compute them to produce output values. So thinking machines will never leave the realm of pop culture, and there are many examples of such (Terminator, The Matrix, umpteen Star Trek movies and series, and essentially any science fiction of that genre). Personally I prefer it that way. What would our purpose in this world be if there were computers that could think?

in the matrix, the machines arnt baound by the programmer, thats the whole point- the machines make machines (same for terminator...)

also u said that computers are only 'devices that take input values and compute them to produce output values' how does that make them any different to us in that sense then?

Acriku

Acriku

Posted
Posted
ACE think outside the box. What if it was possible to program how we think into the application? Such as, not literal values to interpret, but abstract variables and strings. I don't know, it's hard to put into words, but basically a step in the evolution of programs. Or we can just code in all possible choices of every scenario and write algorithms on how to recognize the situation and pick the choices.
What makes you so sure that the complex though processes of the human mind can even be immitated by computers, let alone replicated. The capabilities of a program are limited by what it's programmer can program into it. It's like a law of physics for programming. Sure it works in Star Trek but so does travelling faster than the speed of light. There are SOOO many things we don't understand about the physical brain itself, let alone how our thoughts and memories work. Like I said, computers cannot process abstract phenomenon. It cannot observe things indirectly. Any programmer will tell you in an heartbeat just how dumb computers actually are. No matter how advanced computers become, no matter how much data they store, no matter how complex their programming is, they are bound by the programmer and will forever be simply devices that take input values and compute them to produce output values. So thinking machines will never leave the realm of pop culture, and there are many examples of such (Terminator, The Matrix, umpteen Star Trek movies and series, and essentially any science fiction of that genre). Personally I prefer it that way. What would our purpose in this world be if there were computers that could think?

Indeed we have a lot of work to do. But again, I never expected it to be seen in my lifetime.
exatreide

exatreide

Posted
Posted

maybe you guys should read on the side of the box where it says SCIENCE FICTION. Thats not real and i highly doubt the matrix comes from japan it was created by the wathchasky brothers.

But as science fiction has a tendency to become reality in a short period of time. So I wouldnt throw it out

But also if machines become senteint which they will sooner or later. Probebly later but the fact remains that we dont need them, and the threat they pose is to great. I say we destroy everything...

fremfedeliteNIAC

fremfedeliteNIAC

Posted
Posted

1) the matrix was based on anime (which is japenise)

2) most science fiction is based on known facts, and also seeng as we have started to develop AI, its not so implausable that it will eventually become more advanced.....

3)of course we 'need them'. we need them as much as we need the computers on tanks to calculate trajectory and stuff, or to install in robots like the one sent to scout mars (the one that got stuck on a rock for a day or two)

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