Atheists have no morality!

[ordos45]

Your thinking of god as absolute, when he is not. You know in your heart he exists, and you look at things with that in mind. Open your mind Caid...

Opening your mind is quite deadly at times, especially if one delves too deep. Look at people who wished to understand more, only to have it result in death.

[Acriku]

May the Curious Cat rest in peace...

[Phage]

And what would God base His morality on? Without a higher power then Him, what would keep God moral?

Think of this before you pronounce atheists as unable to adhere to a morality. I'm not saying man is like God, but if God has some basis for it: cannot man? Can it not simply be a self-evident part of our Nature, of who we are?

[Caid Ivik]

Hm, God is considered as basis for morale itself. He defines it with His acts.

Acriku, what do you mean with "opening mind"? Selfsuggestion of possibility, that God doesn't exist? I would say it is only other bind. I take Him as a reality, for me it's question what He is, not if He is.

[Hawat]

Many Theists are just as narrow-minded as the atheists, they're accusing. Don't get me wrong, i don't want to say that atheists are narrow-minded, i want to express that most theists are, (according to the bible, "...the splinter in the eye of the other...) but are applying this to non-believers (that's one of the big problems of modern theism). Morale isn't reserved for theism, I know many people who are actually "better" than me if it comes to morality. They do this because of their humanistic education or their emotional feelings and believes about "good" and "bad".

But moral isn't the main character of theism. The main aspect is, that every human is far from being perfect and makes mistakes, and theism doesn't want you to be perfect. It want's you to be free in god (That i can say for every of the three big theistic religions).

Phage: Why do god need a higher entity, he is the higher entity that dictates morality. If he says "don't kill, don't steal" i can accept that and also follow that, the problem that many have with theistic morality is, that after the understandable reasonable moral guidelines god says "respect me because i showed you morality".

[Phage]

Hm, God is considered as basis for morale itself. He defines it with His acts.

So He just makes it up? It's true just cause he thinks it? If that's the case why can't I just make it up as I go along? I can declare myself the "basis for morality" and then act accordingly.

Basically then your morality is only a thinly disguised version of relativism, in which the ultimate moral arbitor is whoever has the most power in an intrinsically amoral world.

[Phage]

Why do god need a higher entity, he is the higher entity that dictates morality. If he says "don't kill, don't steal" i can accept that and also follow that, the problem that many have with theistic morality is, that after the understandable reasonable moral guidelines god says "respect me because i showed you morality".

Well the theist is saying without God there is no possible reason for atheists to be moral. But then by that reasoning without a higher power then God, there is no reason for God to be moral. Unless you arbitrary stop morality at God, as the relativist king. "All moralities are equal but some are more equal then others". In which case an atheist can just then stop morality at himself or the most powerful man.

The theist then has to realize that if God merely said "rape and murder are moral" they are now moral. Kind of like the Party in 1984, everything it says is true even if it says that what's black is white.

[Caid Ivik]

Hm, God is considered as basis for morale itself. He defines it with His acts.

So He just makes it up? It's true just cause he thinks it? If that's the case why can't I just make it up as I go along? I can declare myself the "basis for morality" and then act accordingly.

Basically then your morality is only a thinly disguised version of relativism, in which the ultimate moral arbitor is whoever has the most power in an intrinsically amoral world.

If we call the thing which gave us the mind with special ability of seeing a difference between good and evil a God, then I see a straight logic in that theory. If you would create your own universe with humans, where you'll set in your "humans", that it is moral to eat icecream, than you will be definer too: for your universe.

[Inoculator9]

So, if we were to base our morals on God... we'd kill gay people, as he did, we'd curse those who don't support us to hell, as he did... you can't base morals on someone like the God you guys describe :P

[SurlyPIG]

Well, it is said in the bible that homosexuality should be punished with execution...

[Inoculator9]

Then my point has been made :)

[Acriku]

We can also rape women :O

[Inoculator9]

And the whole eye for an eye bit...

[Acriku]

God destroyed two cities, Sodomah and Gomorrah (or whatever), and we destroyed two cities, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. How interesting it is to have christians not be as outraged for the former two cities as they were with the latter two cities. But hey, they probably deserved what god gave them. For he is just.

[Inoculator9]

Good point Acrikuy ;)

[Navaros]

All real Christians will cheer the fact that God exacts His Wrath upon Sodomites. The Bible is not cool with them. The Old Testament says quite explicitly in several different places that they are to be executed , yet Inoculator who calls himself a "Jew" does not even agree with his own Book. just another "so-called". ::)

Akriku, there is no reason why any Christian would be mad about Sodom and Gomorrah being destroyed due to Sodomites. The Bible has maintained it's anti-Sodomite message consistentely from Genesis to Revelation.

btw, it doesn't take a Christian or Jew to know that Sodomites should be executed. The Koran teaches Muslims the exact same command. As well, many moral people who are not religious - and even immoral atheists - also agree that executing Sodomites is a good thing. you guys are talking like it's not normal to execute Sodomites or something. LOL

[Hawat]

I alreay mentioned that christian theism isn't based on trying to be the morally highest group in the world.

[Caid Ivik]

Yes, not all. Only calvinists, am I true, Nav?

[Edric O]

Just a small note: Please remember that no other Christians actually agree with Nav's insane ramblings. Or at least, none that I know of.

[Dante]

I don't think you have to be Christian to disagree with Nav's ramblings...

Doesn't anyone think that with modern over-population then perhaps homosexuality is evidence of a very rational creator indeed?

I don't but then that's just me. :)

[Acriku]

Edric, I try to remind myself everyday that he doesn't speak for the whole, he even separates himself from most christians. But, atleast he's consistent.

[Inoculator9]

I'm of "Jewish descent" since my mother is Jewish. I'm really just in it for the money ;D I'm actually a Buddo-Atheist as I like to call myself :D

And Nav, as unfortunate as this is, most who would agree with you are either:

A) Nazis

B) Facists

C) White Supremacists

D) Your Immediate Family

[SurlyPIG]

Just a small note: Please remember that no other Christians actually agree with Nav's insane ramblings. Or at least, none that I know of.

Make that no other sane human beings...

[Caid Ivik]

Navaros is showing hypergnostical dualistic heresy, which was about six times condemned by Church. These evil thoughts, attacking reality, that God created even matter and nature, had no positive ends, death of overworked St Dominic, burning borders and theocratical states like Geneva and Cromwell's Britain. What they nearly did in America I don't have even mood to say...

[hide]I think I've enraged EdricO this week enough ;D[/hide]

[TMA_1]

Morality has nothing to do with religion. I have known athiests that had more principle and more backbone than many christians. Likewise I have known christians, because of their faith, love others without a judgemental thought. The bible calls those athiests fools because they reject him. not because of their morality.

also remember that there are two kinds of morality. One is worldly, and one is spiritually for christians. there is only one difference between them. Spiritual morality and love is doing good while being in fellowship with God. It isnt required though to know God in order to be moral. that is just so stupid to say. Look at scipio africanus. After he defeated his enemies, he recieved a triumpal entry into rome itself, he had the ability to rise up in the ranks to be one of the consoles of rome. HE didnt want that, all he wanted to do is go home to his turnip farm. nobility is not just for those with religion. At the same time though, in what i hold to, all nobility without God is worthless in God's eyes. that is why the bible says athiests are fools.

"btw, it doesn't take a Christian or Jew to know that Sodomites should be executed. The Koran teaches Muslims the exact same command. As well, many moral people who are not religious - and even immoral atheists - also agree that executing Sodomites is a good thing. you guys are talking like it's not normal to execute Sodomites or something. LOL "

just had to modify my post to encorperate this. I am tired of christians who completely dont understand how sex works in a marriage. Read the Song of Songs. It goes into oral sex, foreplay and all sorts of things that you wouldnt expect. Also in the new testament paul said that "the marriage bed is undefiled". So that two married couples can do almost whatever they wish as long as it is between them and God.

You are an idiot nav, you proclaim the evils of people, and say it in christs name. You will then turn around and attack christianity and burst out in proclaiming it's flaws. You arent serious man, you are just looking for fights. You have absolutely no real goal or aim in life, you have no objective on this forum other than to bother people, and all of that makes you completely empty of morality. You arent nessicarily immoral, you just dont have any morals to speak of. So maybe you should post somewhere else.