New Star Trek Movie

[Dragoon Knight]

I've just been to see it.  It was awesome.  In fact, awesome doesn't come close to describing it.

I'll be the first to put my hands up and admit that I'm something of a Trekkie; not enough to don costumes (except that one time; Dante and EWS know what I mean), but certainly an avid fan of all of the series' and movies.  This, newest instalment, is superior to any of the other movies.  I know, that means that First Contact is no longer the best Star Trek movie... I'm going to watch both again to confirm, but I'm pretty sure it's a clear win for the new film.

Everything.  Everything was amazing.  I know a lot of this will be down to the "post-movie thrill" that everyone gets after exiting the cinema after an amazing film, but seriously, it was legendary.  To describe it might construe mild spoilers, so I'll hide the text; I won't give away any specific plot details, though.

[hide]From the first few minutes of the movie, you're already emotionally connected with the characters, to an extent that you (or at least I, a Trekkie) was getting a lump in my throat.  The combination of music, excellent CGI and camerawork combine in the first few scenes to give you an idea of the epic-ness to come.[/hide]

With that out of the way, I can safely say that everyone needs to watch this.  Any doubts I had when entering the cinema, about how they would portray the classic characters, were dispelled entirely.  Kirk, Spock (and the rest of the crew) are portrayed in a way that pays homage to the classic acts of the original cast, but with a twist and energy that just wasn't present three or four decades ago.

Like I said, awesome cannot begin to describe it.  Post your thoughts about the movie once you've seen it - feel free to discuss plot points or scenes, but be sure to use hide tags to keep the thread readable for those who are yet to see it.  I really hope that this film is as well received by the rest of the Star Trek community, and that this sparks a new generation of movies along the same vein.  Maybe even a new series, who knows?

SO damned awesome.

[chatfsh]

Being a long-time Trekkie, I

[gryphon]

I know, that means that First Contact is no longer the best Star Trek movie...

You mean The Undiscovered Country. ;)

I used to be. No costumes just insignia's though. And never in public :P I even memorised (or tried to) about 40.000 pages just to play the best Star Trek game ever.

Gonna watch it in two hours. haven't seen any spoilers or previews besides the cinema trailer. It's nine in the evening over here, so won't be back home before tomorrow morning after Star Trek and going out...

[Dragoon Knight]

Hardly going to argue about what the best Star Trek movie was, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of Trekkies will agree that the new one has taken the top spot.

Guess the whole curse of odd-numbered movies being crap has been lifted. :)

[chatfsh]

Just saw it this afternoon.  I must agree with you, Dragoon, the new Star Trek movie is the best of the sequels.  While the plot wasn

[gryphon]

[tt]gryphon[/tt] is sober again after yesterday :P

The cast was great. The actors did a good job portraying their characters. Especially the young Spock.

(so, that is out of my system and don't forget Pike in the list of characters)

The effects where nice, although I intend to judge a film on content and not on the use of special effect. Agreed they are good (depending if you have seen the movie in DIGITAL format of plain filmroles). Then again effects should not be used to make up for bad acting or as filler for a missing story line.

Don't get me wrong, I was thrilled the first couple of minutes and actually excited that they made a great film (Eden Lake is that great film if you ask me, this one was just a very good J J Abrams Star Trek movie).

What kept this one from being the best Star Trek film from the series (or the sequels) for me are a couple of things.

The endless line of one-liners from the original movies. A couple would have been great, then every one liner from the previous six films cramped into one was overkill. The actors did a great job, no need for that endless repeation. The special effects where great. Just to much. A story is not made with great special effects, the effects are support for a great story. And last, I'm still not used to seeing him again after all these years. :)

[Dragoon Knight]

The great thing about all your criticism, gryphon, is that each point can also be seen as a positive.  Great special effects; better than any prior film.  All the classic one-liners being put to work, letting us identify the new cast as our favourite characters from the past.

I don't believe the special effects were there to support the story, though.  I agree with Hwi when she says that the plot wasn't exactly full of twists, but a straightforward plot was needed to bring Star Trek to the mainstream.  I'm not advocating the dumbing-down of any sequels, but this one struck the right balance between history and simplicity.

[hide]Yes, Hwi, that was my favourite scene, too.  I would have liked to see more ship combat, but we'll leave that for the sequels, I suppose.  Actors were indeed spot on - even Simon Pegg as Scotty was a good choice.  He makes everything, even asking for a towel, hilarious.

And gryphon, I assume you mean Spock Prime.  Was strange for me, too.[/hide]

[gryphon]

My criticism was not mend to convert you opinion about the film. :)

We all interpret it in our own ways. All being highly subjective to the person who has seen the film and their own preferences make it the movie it is.

[hide]That's the one I was referring to. :)

I liked the bridge scenes with Spock, Kirk and occasionally Pike. Very well done and a nice way to build the characters relation in just one film.[/hide]

[chatfsh]

As I mentioned earlier, the plot in the new Star Trek movie wasn

[Dunenewt]

[hide]I watched it the other day, and I have to agree with most of the points already made about the film.  Casting was spot on, special effects were absolutely amazing, especially Nero's ship, although I am never a big fan of time travelling in the Star Trek films.  The background story concerning everyone except from Kirk and Spock was pretty thin though, especially with Scotty, Chekov, and Sulu.[/hide]

[veK]

I haven't seen it - Not quite sure if I will but maybe. But I can't get over the fact that Spock is played by Zachary Quinto who plays sylar in Heroes  ;D

[Dragoon Knight]

He plays the role of Spock perfectly - just the right balance between Vulcan logic and emotionless reasoning, and a firmly restrained human half.  Don't think they could have realistically cast anyone else for the role.

Go see the movie - you'll agree that he fits the bill.  You probably won't even get the impression that he's going to slice someone's head open more than once or twice. :P

[Mahdi]

[hide]So none of you were disturbed by the many plotholes and downright nonsensical events in the film?  Like how, on a military starship, they decided to bring along the wife of the first officer who is 9 months pregnant (this is back in the days before TNG where starfleet became a glorified luzury line)?!  Or how it's an amazing coincidence that every single major crew member of the Enterprise except Scotty went to the academy together (where Spock was teaching)?  Or how, in all the worlds in all the galaxies, and in all the landmass on that world, Kirk, Spock, and Scotty all happened to have been stranded within 14 k/m of each other, Kirk and Spock within one KM? Why, in an assault, are the attackers not carrying any phasers, instead one of them arming himself with a sword, and the other deciding his bare fists are enough?

Or maybe how a 25 year old kid who hasn't even graduated starfleet academy yet was somehow promoted to Captain of the fleet's flagship at the end of the movie?!  And that same flagship is now crewed by another bunch of kids who have yet to even finish the academy? 

And then there is Nero... where did he disapear to for those 25 years?  That "lightning storm in space" was the blackhole disgourging Nero's ship, so why was it reported again at the Klingon and Vulcan attacks by Nero?  Why the hell is a minig ship equipped with so much weaponry?  Why is the crew armed with so much weaponry?  If Nero gets Spock right after he stopped the supernova, then Nero must have been on his way to Romulus before the supernova destroyed his planet.  Why?  Just in case Spock failed to save his world, so he could have revenge?  The Romlans are more advanced than the federation, why do they need the federation to save them in the first place?

This movie was supposed to be a reboot eliminating the problems of the old trek, but I still saw them.  No real danger ot the main characters, technobable solutions (transwarp beaming, ejecting the warp core once again).  Most of the references to the old series felt shoehorned in, like the quick cut to and away from Bones when he gives his "I'm a doctor" line.[/hide]

I could go on but I'll stop here.  Despite how it may seem, I did not hate the movie and liked quite a bit of it, but the weakness of the story and many plotholes really sapped my enjoyment of it and I do not get these reviews giving it 5 stars out of five or saying it's perfect or whatever.  It's not.  It's good, but it has a hell of a lot of flaws and it seems people are missing them because they're either hidden behind the pretty pretty lights or an individuals own desire for the movie to be perfect.  I watched Serenity the day after watching Star Trek.  Star Trek did not take the comparison favourably.

Also, The Wrath of Khan is the single greatest Star Trek film ever made.  It's a scientifically proven fact.

[Andrew]

For anyone who has never seen a good review of ST: Nemesis, you definitely must read this:

Star Trek Nemesis Pictorial Plot Synopsis

I hope they do the same with new movie, even though I havn't seen it yet.

[Dragoon Knight]

Alright, Mahdi, here are some answers to your various identified "plot holes":

[hide]- Bringing Kirk's mother on board the vessel is never explained, but you forget that Captain Archer (who is mentioned in the movie) kept a pet dog on board, so who is to say that regulations weren't lax back then?

- Of course every member of the Enterprise crew went to Starfleet Academy.  It would only make sense that they all go at roughly the same time, too, as a qualifying class will be assigned ships at the same time - there would be little chance of them being together if they qualified at different times.

- Spock Prime escaped Nero and made his way to the nearest Class M planet to Vulcan; Spock aboard the Enterprise kicked Kirk off on this planet for the same reason; it was the nearest Class M.  Scotty was already there - it could have been anyone, but this isn't a "plot hole".  Spock would have been making his way to the Federation outpost for a while, it only stands to reason that Kirk's pod would have landed near to the outpost, too.

- Kirk and Sulu were carrying weapons, but they were quite swiftly disarmed.  Sulu brought a sword because he's an avid fencer, and everyone knows that melee weapons are better for close-quarters combat than ranged ones.

- Kirk was chosen by Pike because he was practically a genius (as explained in the first bar scene).  He soared through every academy year with ease, and was the only person to defeat the Kobayashi Maru test created by Spock (by being the only one audacious enough to cheat a cheating test).  He was promoted by Pike to First Officer, since there was no-one with equal skill aboard.  Only via a loophole in Starfleet regulations did he become Captain.

- At the end of the movie, he is promoted to Captain because he proved that he could handle the responsibilities of command.  I'll admit, being shot straight up to Captain is unheard of, but Kirk did basically save Earth from total destruction.  Now this is more or less commonplace in TNG era, but it's pretty rare back in those days.

- Nero waited for 25 years for Spock to come out of the "black hole", and then began his attacks on Vulcan.  Nero obtained Borg technology for his mining ship; a secret stash of which was kept by the Romulans in the future he came from.  For more details about what happened prior to the movie, you need to read the graphic novel "Star Trek: Countdown".

- There was a distinct lack of technobabble in this movie as compared to any of the others.  Barely any time is devoted to ship-to-ship combat, and there is very little mention of technical details.  What little there is all makes sense; Scotty being the creator of a theory of transportation while at warp, ejecting the warp core to push the Enterprise away from a black hole... all pretty basic stuff, in Trek terms.

- The only reason people believe there is "no danger" to the main characters is because they choose to see it that way, mostly because they know that they're not going to die.  There's plenty of peril for all the characters - just because you know they'll get through it, doesn't make it any less dangerous.[/hide]

I think that's about everything you mentioned.  I agree that there could have been improvements, but it was nothing short of an excellent film, which has now taken the top spot as best Star Trek movie.  Wrath of Khan, First Contact, Undiscovered Country - none hold a torch to this when looked at as a whole.  Plot-wise, perhaps, but not as a whole.

Also, Firefly fan here.  Serenity was very good, but you're not seriously suggesting it was "great"?  Not when compared to Star Trek. :O

[Mahdi]

Dragoon, none of your explanations make a lick of sense.

[hide]"- Bringing Kirk's mother on board the vessel is never explained, but you forget that Captain Archer (who is mentioned in the movie) kept a pet dog on board, so who is to say that regulations weren't lax back then?"

Are you seriously comparing a captain bringing his pet beagle on board his ship to a 9 month pregnant civilian woman riding around on a military vessel?

"- Of course every member of the Enterprise crew went to Starfleet Academy.  It would only make sense that they all go at roughly the same time, too, as a qualifying class will be assigned ships at the same time - there would be little chance of them being together if they qualified at different times."

...right, that's why the entire command crew who currently serves on the Enterprise aricraft carrier went to the academy together, because it wouldn't make any sense if the different officers all were of varrying ages and experience.... It also means that Starfleet must only recruit like once every 25 years so that as one crew gets old and retires tehy can replace it witha  completely new one.

"Spock Prime escaped Nero and made his way to the nearest Class M planet to Vulcan; Spock aboard the Enterprise kicked Kirk off on this planet for the same reason; it was the nearest Class M.  Scotty was already there - it could have been anyone, but this isn't a "plot hole".  Spock would have been making his way to the Federation outpost for a while, it only stands to reason that Kirk's pod would have landed near to the outpost, too."

You don't think it's an amazing coincidence that Spock and Kirk wound up within a single kilometer of each other over the entire surface of this planet, and Scotty jsut happened to be assigned there?  Really?  Seems more like lazy writing and teh same "small universe" syndrome the Star Wars prequels suffered from, if you ask me.

"Kirk and Sulu were carrying weapons, but they were quite swiftly disarmed."

Really?  When?  I didn't see them draw a phaser or lose a phaser.

"- Kirk was chosen by Pike because he was practically a genius (as explained in the first bar scene).  He soared through every academy year with ease, and was the only person to defeat the Kobayashi Maru test created by Spock (by being the only one audacious enough to cheat a cheating test).  He was promoted by Pike to First Officer, since there was no-one with equal skill aboard.  Only via a loophole in Starfleet regulations did he become Captain."

I don't have a problem with that, nor did I say I did.  They dealt with that fiarly well, explaining that the entire ship was crewed by cadets and a couple officers since the vessel had never been used yet and no one else was around.

"At the end of the movie, he is promoted to Captain because he proved that he could handle the responsibilities of command.  I'll admit, being shot straight up to Captain is unheard of, but Kirk did basically save Earth from total destruction."

And that is why if someone stops a mugging they are immediately promoted to chief of police.  Oh wait....

"- Nero waited for 25 years for Spock to come out of the "black hole", and then began his attacks on Vulcan.  Nero obtained Borg technology for his mining ship; a secret stash of which was kept by the Romulans in the future he came from.  For more details about what happened prior to the movie, you need to read the graphic novel "Star Trek: Countdown"."

Movies are movies, books are books.  If you have to go out and read books set before, after, or during the same time as your movie in order to understand the plot of your movie, then that is a failure on the part of the movie.  Especially considering this is supposed to be a complete reboot of the series that stands on its own and needs no prior experience with Star Trek to get.

"There was a distinct lack of technobabble in this movie as compared to any of the others.  Barely any time is devoted to ship-to-ship combat, and there is very little mention of technical details.  What little there is all makes sense; Scotty being the creator of a theory of transportation while at warp, ejecting the warp core to push the Enterprise away from a black hole... all pretty basic stuff, in Trek terms."

There may have been less technobabble, but there is still technobabble.  And the transwarp beaming?  That's a deus ex machina if I ever saw one.  "Oh, you need to get back ont he ship?  Well guess what, I'll just type this little formula into the computer and we'll magically beam you back to your ship light years away"  As for ejecting the warp core - how tired is that?  This is supposed to benew Star Trek.  We've seen them eject or threaten to eject the warp core god knows how many times before.  I did like the reference to Star Trek 4 though when Spock showed Scotty the formula and told Scotty he invented it (like when scotty showed the 20th century guy teh formula for clear aluminum since the guy would later invent it).

Oh, WTF was with Spock Prime deciding it was worth risking the entire planet of Earth because he wanted young Spock and young Jim to work together?  Ridiculous.[/hide]

I enjoyed the movie for what it was, but it definately had a lot of story problems.

And, yes, dragoon, writing and plotwise I definately do believe that Serenity was better than Star Trek.And I also believe that Wrath of Khan (which is better than Serenity) and Undiscovered Country are both better than Star Trek, but I do rate Star Trek the third best Star Trek movie.  Good writing and story are, to me, the most important parts of a movie.  In this movie, they were ok, but nothing special.  They had thier problems.  Maybe for you the whole feel and sfx and acting and directing were able to overcome the flaws in the writing and plotting.  They weren't for me.

[Mahdi]

Figured I should also say what I did like before everyone thinks I just hated the movie.

The set design and costuming were spectacular.  The Enterprise looked fantastic both inside and out and the uniforms were perfect.  The direction was good, a little too fast cutty for this type of movie I think, but all in all it was well done.  Cinematography was excellent.  It was nice to have bright lights and colours again!

Acting was fine. I don't agree with some of the character choices (Spock getting in touch with his emotions seemed a little too easy to me, considering how it took Spock Prime until the 5th and 6th movie to finally balance his human and Vulcan halves), but I can see why they did what they did.  Special Effects were good.  Again, I personally don't like the star-warsy blaster like phasers replacing the traditional phasers, but that's just me and is inconsequential to the movie as a whole.  Score was well done, and I enjoyed hearing the TOS theme as the movie ended.

The little reminders of the original series, when they worked, worked really well (just as when they didn't work, they were horrible).  Examples being, as mentioned before, the subtle nod to star trek 4.  Others, [hide]Pike getting the alpha centari bug implanted in him and ending up in a wheel chair at the end, and Spock giving the "Final frontier" speech at the end as he did in WOK.[/hide].

The humour was great. People forget, TOS had a lot of comedic elements to it, and some of the best episodes were the funny episodes.

I truly did like the film.  I jsut don't think it was perfect as a lot of people seem to believe, and I think that as time goes by and the initial "wow, it's Star Trek again!" wears off, peoples attitudes will change a bit and it'l still be regarded as a very good movie and a very good Star Trek movie, but not the be all and end all of Star Trek films many are calling it now.

[Dragoon Knight]

I won't get into an argument about whether or not the "flaws" you point out are valid or not, because they're just matters of opinion and perspective.  One way of looking at it is positive, the other negative; no facts, so to speak.

Without even trying to break it down to its component pieces, though, I generally rate a movie by how it makes me feel overall when I come out of the cinema.  There are very few movies out there that make me want to turn around and walk straight back in and watch it again.  Star Trek is one of those movies. :)

[Edric O]

Like many other people here, I've pretty much been a Trekkie since childhood. TNG was my very first encounter with science fiction. Later, I got to watch all the episodes of the original series, and of course followed DS9 and Voyager.

Now that you know where I'm coming from, I just saw the movie a couple of hours ago. And I must say, it is perfectly true that the special effects were superb and the characters were spot on. Were this anything but Star Trek, I would call it an excellent sci-fi movie.

However, the plot... the plot, OH MY GOD THE PLOT!! It's not that the plot is boring and simplistic. We're used to that, and you can still have good Trek despite such lackluster plots. No, I'm talking of a much bigger problem with it:

[hide]Everything you ever knew about Star Trek, from the very first episode of the original series - it's all GONE in the reboot to end all reboots. Are they seriously going to wipe the slate clean and start over from Kirk's youth? Vulcan is no more? Q, the Borg, Data, Bajor and Cardassia, the wormhole, the Ferengi, the Dominion, JEAN-LUC PICARD - all gone, or changed beyond recognition, or may never be discovered? The enormity of such an act of canoncide cannot be described in words. I really hope they don't go that way, or else I'll feel a distinct urge to throttle the life out of the idiots responsible.[/hide]

[gryphon]

Mahdi,

I was supprised to see you forgot the fact that a Starship was  build on the planet surface. We all know they are being build in a Spacedock because the earths gravity will collaps the saucer section and the hull won't survive a planets atmosphere. (although they tried it ones in one of the TOS episodes if I remember correctly) ;)

[Dragoon Knight]

Edric, I completely agree with your fears.  They'd better figure out some way to bring all of that back into the "new canon" or else there will be hell to pay. :P

And yes, gryphon, that struck me as a bit weird, too.  The only starship that was designed to land, as I recall, was the Intrepid class (i.e. Voyager).  The TNG Enterprise D was created at Utopia Planetia on Mars... not sure about TOS Enterprise, but I doubt it was made in dry-dock on Earth.  Perhaps some sort of anti-gravity doohickey?

[Mahdi]

They're not going to bring it back to the old canon.  The whole point of the movie was toc ompletely wipe everythign out and start all over again.

Nor did they simply delete the old canon.  Like they said in the movie, when Nero and Spock went back in time they created an alternate universe seperate from the general canon universe.  And, as we know from previous star trek episodes, there are an inifinite number of alternate universes out there.

[Edric O]

Ok, I guess there's nothing wrong with adding yet another alternate universe, but if all Star Trek from now on will take place in this alternate universe (perhaps with the occasional interdimensional travel into the Old Canon universe), I'll be really annoyed and disappointed anyway. And I'll probably stop watching Trek. I'm really not interested in seeing them explore strange new worlds where other series have already gone before.

Since Nero's timeline-altering actions happened entirely within the Federation, the history of all the OTHER species - at least at the point where the movie left off - should be exactly as we know it. Making it very boring to go and re-discover everything. And if the Federation just decides to explore in the other direction or something like that, so that they encounter a completely new and different set of alien species... well, then you've got a nice sci-fi universe, but it's not Star Trek.

Simply put, if this new continuity follows the old one, then it will be boring. If it doesn't, then it might as well not be Star Trek. So I can't see this idea going in a good direction at all. Why they couldn't just pick up where Voyager/DS9 left off is beyond me.

[Mahdi]

Edric, you're forgetting about chaos theory!  Just because the federation were the only ones directly affected doesn't mean they're the only ones to be affected...;p  Butterfly flapping its wings and all that jazz.

I expect there will be the occasional nod to the old continuity (like there was in this movie) but I sincerely doubt they'll pay much attention to it.  The whole point of the reboot was to jettison all that baggage and start anew.

You know, it's never ceased to amaze me how a show that originally wasn't supposed to have any canon (a twilight zone series with the same cast week in week out) developed into such a slave to continuity. I think the first mistake was int he movies when they actually said what year it was, isntead of jsut listing stardates....

[Tatar Khan]

I could be wrong, I am not a trekie but I did enjoy watching episodes of Deep Space 9 and the new Enterprise series.

Just throwing this idea for consideration, don't you think with regards to the whole story element you are being set up for the second movie or new series. Or is everyone is expecting Spock and the rest of the crew not to try to fix what happened?