God

[TMA_1]

God cant go against nature.

God can help mankind but also test it.

God is false because of his inconsistancies.

I hear a lot of these statements; too many to count actually. I think it is rather simple.

God cannot lie. Since the entity is all knowing, all powerful, and all encompassing, whatever the entity does is truth. People always place limits on God because we always seem to place him with our physical and metaphysical limitations. So instead of God having to follow the plans of nature, nature has to follow the plans of God. So whatever God does, it is made perfectly and naturally.

God is the cause, and not the effect. So whatever cause God makes, the effect will always be truth to us, because lies are only presets for our existance. Whatever God does is truth in a sense. Because whatever God enacts, the universe alters towards whatever God wants. The effect cannot conquer the cause, because the cause is the creator of the effect.

Before Time and space, God "planned" (using human terms to discribe the indiscribable) the entire destiny of every single infantismal unit of energy, space, and time. All of it is "known" to God, so that whatever it's perfection desires, it has already been set up in the destiny of the universe, thereby making it impossible for God to lie. If God can see the past present and future, and has the power to alter it or change it completely in perfection, then there is no lie or contridiction. God would know what is Fact, because perfection understands the ultimate Fact in the universe. Because of this, all things are known to God, all of time-space, and all of the countless quantum realities that exist. Even realities that dont exist he knows. He even knows the impossible! because what is impossible to us, is not impossible to God. Cant you guys see? Whatever is enacted by God, it IS reality. How can we deny something that we dont even understand? Why rebel against something that we truly have no idea about? We haev our own desires and feelings, but what gives us that right? Not only are we ignorant of the past, present, and future, but we are also ignorant of our actions we take in understanding if they are absolute truth. Nobody can know that except for God, so why rebel when we are ignorant? Not only that, we were created by God! so what right do we have to want any more? What gives us the right to rebel against something that gave us everything we know and hold dear? We blame the problems of other temporal beings on God, and that is one bullshit reason.lol

[GUNWOUNDS]

ten bucks says navaros writes a rude reply

[Navaros]

TMA1 says God can not lie.

TMA1 says God "breathed" the Word of God into man.

So tell me then, why are there lies in the breathe of God? By that I mean, factual contradictions in the Bible. There can be nothing subjective about these contradictions because they are factual, not moral. If one of these breaths of God is true, then the other contradicting breath of God must be false and therefore a Lie. that would mean God lies.

i direct your attention to the different Gospels where they open the Tomb of Jesus:

...one says the Angel was chilling on top of the boulder of the Tomb

...one says there was no Angel on the boulder, but there was an Angel inside the Tomb.

...one says there was no Angel there at all.

Factual contradictions such as these are all over the Bible, yet every Word in the Bible is supposed to be God's truthful breathe, is it not?

Therefore, God lies.

[GUNWOUNDS]

What an uninformed boy you are nav.... the gospels and much of the bible has been translated from the original language it was written in. therefore inconsistencies reside within the translations NOT the text. Go read the gospels in the original greek and then come back and argue.. until you have done so keep your mouth firmly clasped shut.

DO NOT try to foul God's name by using errors in translation or semantics.....

Also every word in the bible is not God's word... much of the bible had added text or deleted text. Depending on how the king at that time had allowed the bible scholars to interpret the bible. The Bible has been rewritten many times with text deleted and added... and therefore there is some of the bible that must be disregarded. They have found an ancient bible that actually has 50 PERCENT MORE TEXT !!! now i would like to get my hands on that!

How can a man do this?? Well they say when you find God he will let the holy spirit show you the truth and that he will guide you as to what material is to be regarded and disregarded.

[TMA_1]

exactly gunwounds. See, each gospel has portions of information given to them through the holy spirit. They all have the similar themes, but different parts of the story (kinda like a puzzle). The angels were seen at both of those places at different imes.

For example, it says that mary gave birth to jesus in a cave in one of the gospels. In another gospel, it says that mary gave birth to jesus in a stable. The thing is, they have found that many rocky areas were used as places for stables because of the natural cover and protection they provide. They have found hundreds of thm, and many many many of them in the city of david.

Also nav, the whole point is what I just stated in my first post. I said, "? We blame the problems of other temporal beings on God, and that is one bullshit reason." lol, you did exactly what I was attacking against.

You seem that you were never a strong believer in the first place. You just changed your beliefs because of matters involving temporal things. thats silly.

[Navaros]

TMA1, no matter what kind of "spin" you try to put on your rebuttal, the blatant reality is that there is *no* rational way to say "these facts are directly contrary to one another, yet they are all true!" that's ridiculous.

btw the opening of Jesus' Tomb only happened once, so all the Gospels were referring to the exact same event at the exact same time

[GUNWOUNDS]

TMA it is hard to argue about the bible.. with people who are uneducated in the field.... i would love for one of these atheist to sit down and read the whole bible in its original language and then make an informed argument......

most of what i hear here is silly cliche' arguements.

"God contradicts himself"

is the most cliche' atheist arguement..... and it usually comes from those who have done the least amount of reading, research, or studying.

to anyone out there seriously wanting to understand the scriptures i suggest you studying the greek and hebrew roots and try to figure things out for yourself..... or find a book that has already deciphered and corrected many mistakes being made in translations.

[Digital Guerrilla]

I have one what about the the Tower of Babel are there any mistranslations in this particular episode of the Bible? I ask for this reason it makes no sense for God to confuse the human race because of the unity of building a tower to reach heaven.

Here I will use Bible examples to show what I am talking about.

Gen.11:1

"And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech."

Gen.11:6-9

"And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one

language.... Go to, let us go down, and there confound their

language, that they may not understand one another's speech.... Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth:"

Why did this have to happen? It seems useless for the reason that there was no way the human race were going to be able to build a tower to the heavens. Think about this God could have just watched as the project fell apart and done nothing. Instead he goes out of his way to confuse everyone. The tower to the heavens itself was a doomed project think about the height at which the tower would have toppled over from it's own weight. I know the ancient forefathers had different languages but no matter how you put this event in any language it still makes no sense to me it is impossible from the begining.

[TMA_1]

because the backbone of great societies is nationalism. Nothing wrong with free trade and allies and whatnot, but when people come together and try to unify, they either do it for Good or fooor Evil. In this case, they made the tower as a direct attack against God. He therefore confued the languages in order to seperate the people from their unified evil,

[Digital Guerrilla]

because the backbone of great societies is nationalism. Nothing wrong with free trade and allies and whatnot, but when people come together and try to unify, they either do it for Good or fooor Evil. In this case, they made the tower as a direct attack against God. He therefore confued the languages in order to seperate the people from their unified evil,

This has nothing to do with the econmics of free trade in the verses aboout the building of the Tower of Bable. What was the direct attack against God? What unified evil had the people done that makes no sense. Ok so the people say "let's build a tower to heaven" so what logical sense to you or I should say as I explained in my previous post that it is impossible due to the scientific factors against such a tower being built. It makes no sense to confuse the people over the tower being built. There is nothing "evil" about the people being unified to built this tower like I said before it was a goal that could not have been reached even if God did not confuse the peoples tongue. TMA-1 your answer IMO has no thought behind. I think something here in this part of the Bible might have been changed and that is the real confusion.

[TMA_1]

well eif you actually read the bible, you will find that before the flood, mankind had unified in one language and one culture. They were destroyed because of their decadance. After the flood, when a few generations passed. Nimrod, son of cush, was ruler over many. He is called "the great hunter". Translated from the hebrew, it means in a sense, Dictator. He controlled and unified the people once again. God knew though that if people would stay as one, they would stagnate and never grow. Not only that, it said they wanted to make a tower that would reach up to the heavens (there are three heavens mentioned. The heaven which is also called the Firmament, the second heaven which contains the heavenly bodies, and the third which is the throne of God.) He wanted to mock God and display his own power and the power of humanity against God. Study the story man, and study it carefully, knowing both the past portions and the future portions of the text. God then destroyed the tower and made mankind spread abroad. Because of this, the dangers of evil unification were destroyed and mankind could grow and flurish as individual nations.

that is the story.

and yes you are right gunwounds, it is hard.lol

I was trying not to use the bible though. I dont understand why people always equate God with religion. Like somehow God is only for religion to hold to. If there is a god, and I believe so, He is over all things. God in itself is not a panderer to religion. God is the true power and force behind all things. Though I think many aspects of Intelligent Design and Creationism have their flaws, I believe that they are attackedtoo harshly. Somehow weird scientists can come up with these pseudo scientific ideas of alien transplantation of life on earth. But God never fits into that role. makes no sense.

[sneezer3]

For example, it says that mary gave birth to jesus in a cave in one of the gospels. In another gospel, it says that mary gave birth to jesus in a stable. The thing is, they have found that many rocky areas were used as places for stables because of the natural cover and protection they provide. They have found hundreds of thm, and many many many of them in the city of david.

A cave?

I gotta see that. could you give me the reffrance?

[Digital Guerrilla]

well eif you actually read the bible, you will find that before the flood, mankind had unified in one language and one culture. They were destroyed because of their decadance. After the flood, when a few generations passed. Nimrod, son of cush, was ruler over many. He is called "the great hunter". Translated from the hebrew, it means in a sense, Dictator. He controlled and unified the people once again. God knew though that if people would stay as one, they would stagnate and never grow. Not only that, it said they wanted to make a tower that would reach up to the heavens (there are three heavens mentioned. The heaven which is also called the Firmament, the second heaven which contains the heavenly bodies, and the third which is the throne of God.) He wanted to mock God and display his own power and the power of humanity against God. Study the story man, and study it carefully, knowing both the past portions and the future portions of the text. God then destroyed the tower and made mankind spread abroad. Because of this, the dangers of evil unification were destroyed and mankind could grow and flurish as individual nations.

that is the story.

False the world has never had one language nor one culture. The bible even contadicts itself on this subject.

Gen.10:5

"By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands, every one after his tongue."

Gen.10:20

"These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues."

Gen.10:31

"These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues."

One language sounds very false to me. It sounds to me that God is the real confusion. He doesn't want the earth to be unified, unity is such "evil" because of stagnation. Christians always say we should be one and love another well that sounds like "unity" to me or I could be wrong. Whatever way from what you said that would be "evil" or could possiblity be "evil" if I understand your thoughts correctly.

[GUNWOUNDS]

The world can accomplish great deeds if unified.

The world can accomplish horrible deeds if unified.

Its up to us and our leaders.

and the guy quoting genesis with the verses that say

"and this family and their tongues"

You obviously know nothing of the bible.

Genesis wasnt written at the begining of time.

Genesis was written by Moses .

and the language separation had occured before Moses was born or wrote genesis. So i see nothing wrong with him talking about others with different languages.

[Inoculator9]

Infaliability is just an excuse for uneducated minds not to have to think about something or explain it.

"Why does God contradict himself?"

"He doesn't because he's infaliable."

"But if he's infaliable why does he contradict himself?"

"He doesn't, he's infaliable."

That's no explanation.

To GUNWOUNDS. I've read the bible from cover to cover, and it does contradict itself. I went to a Catholic school for three years, and a grandparent was a priest.

[Digital Guerrilla]

and the guy quoting genesis with the verses that say

"and this family and their tongues"

You obviously know nothing of the bible.

Genesis wasnt written at the begining of time.

Genesis was written by Moses .

and the language separation had occured before Moses was born or wrote genesis. So i see nothing wrong with him talking about others with different languages.

GUNWOUNDS I am that person that you speak of and let me correct you on your assumption. First I know that Genesis was not written at the begining of time I never said anything other wise. Second I know that Moses wrote Genesis, or is "considered" to be the author of the Torah. You said that I know nothing of the bible I disagree because if you read the verses I posted in my posat you can clearly see what I was refering to as my source of information. @GUNWOUNDS did you even read what I posted? ???

[DjCiD]

False the world has never had one language nor one culture. The bible even contadicts itself on this subject.

Wrong there SandW. There was one laguage and one culture. After the great flood the only ones left, Noah and his family, all spoke the same language and when they repopulated the world it followed. There was one language until The Tower of Babel was knocked down by God.

[GUNWOUNDS]

aahh Djcid you have a good point...

and to inoculator..... yes you poor fellow.. 3 years of catholic school can confuse you.. catholics are the worst denomination to leanr christianity from. seems most ex-christians are catholics.. they must be doing something wrong.

However, inoculator.. the bible may seem to contradict itself.. but that is to someone who doesnt use higher-order thinking.

Its like when people use the arguement.....

"God says not to kill... but yet he kills people or commands them to die"

therefore God contradicts himself.

that along with every other supposed contradiction is such crap seeing as how if you stop for a second you can figure it out with higher order thinking.

The hebrew translation of "thou shall not kill" is actually

"thou shall not kill innocents."

Therefore it is referring to murder. and god isnt contradicting himself. I have only seen where wicked people are killed in the bible.. where do you see innocents being killed?

If you just use your head for once.. and not jump on the "contradiction misinformed bandwagon" you just might actually see the truth.

Note*- after reading my post all atheists have IM'ed me saying i am right and that the bible doesnt contradict itself.

[quoudam72]

Ok for all of those who say that the Bible has contradictions could the people defending these so-called cantradictions tell the people what version of the Bible they read it would help the amount of time wasted on arguing on the same aspect over and over.

[TMA_1]

I explained in a very general way why God is infallible. How can a perfect being be infallible? How could a being that knows all aspects of time and possibilities (as well as impossibilites) make "mistakes"?

I am puting it as if God is 100% undeniably real for the sake of discussion. I believe he is 100% real, but many dont, and I understand that.

[sneezer3]

I've researched into lots of them and personly don't believe there are any conterdictions. mainly due to the research and verses like Psalms 12:6-7 Mark 13:31 2 Timothy 3:16 and so on. there are serveral reason why I use the King James.

[Acriku]

How can a perfect being be infallible?

Adam and Eve. 'Nuff said.

[Inoculator9]

Higher order thinking my ass. I am the master of metaphysics and higher thinking. I've studied Buddhism for four years, and nothing, I guarantee NOTHING else puts your thoughts into as high an order of thinking as that.

The supposed "higher order thinking" of Christians is merely there claim to an understanding of the nature of the universe. Just because you "know that God exists" you think you have a superior universal understanding.

And even if Catholicism is different from Christianity, it doesn't change my knowledge of it. To continue this point I will ask a question: what is your opinion on "Dante's Inferno"? Namely it's validity in the Church. Your opinion, not the church's official feelings.

[Hawat]

If some people would actually venture the risk to read the bible and try to understand the issues that seem to be contradictionary would that help a lot.

To my knowledge there are only few "real contradictions" - originated through the fact that the bible has gone through human filters -, but this "contradictions" doesn't damage the integrity of the whole book.

Just to point out an example:

In an enumeration of clean and unclean animals the rabbit as mentioned a ruminant - which is obviously wrong. I don't know where this mistake come from, but it is relatively clear that this doesn't attack any of the bibles teachings.

[TMA_1]

that is completely thoughtless.lol how can you, an ignorant human, know what is imperfection and perfection? we all have ideas of what these things are, but you totally didnt read what I first wrote in the first place. How do you know that your perceptions of the world are correct? you cant. So why is it that you point out "mistakes", when you dont even know if your assumptions on mistakes and errors are false? you are closed minded because you dont accept that your ideas could be completely wrong. its like you are totally one dimensional on this. You easily say that God made the mistake of creating life, and that the fact that he created something shows that God, if he existed, isnt perfect. What wisdom were you given to let your arrogance go nuts and say that you know what perfection is? If God is perfect, then he knows the abolute truth and whatever he does follows that path, and in that case, your ideas on perfection are irrelavent because you have no clue what true perfection is.