Why should i believe in God?

[Edric O]

The fact that you put god before anything else is dangerous. People can do many things by putting god before anything else. Who's to stop you from suddenly seeing something against god, and you become fully enraged and decide to blow up a few people? No one. It doesn't matter what god teaches, people will still do horrible things because they put him first. You are no different than the suicidal bombers. There is no matter what their god teaches, and what your's teaches, it is still going to be YOU who commit the act.

My poor Acriku... are you that blind? Do you really know me so little as to assume I could fall for the simple propaganda and manipulation that motivates suicide bombers? Really, I thought you were smarter than that.

Also, by using your logic, I could argue that since you have no god, who is to stop you from blowing up a few people because you feel like it, or you simply don't like them? No one. After all, you have no absolute moral values, so one day you could become a serial killer and start slaughtering people with no remorse.

But, you see, I think more highly of you than that. It's unfortunate that the feeling does not seem to be mutual...

I also thought you would notice the immense hypocrisy in your own comments, but I guess I have to point it out to you:

This was a personal decision, so if you want to sit on your ass all day and not do a thing for your country - fine. I choose to defend my country against all enemies, while you sit on your chair talking.

The fact that you put your country before anything else is dangerous. People can do many things by putting their country before anything else. Who's to stop you from suddenly seeing something against your country, and you become fully enraged and decide to blow up a few people? No one. It doesn't matter what your country is, people will still do horrible things because they put it first. You are no different than the nazis. There is no matter what their government stands for, and what yours stands for, it is still going to be YOU who commit the act.

[Acriku]

My poor Acriku... are you that blind? Do you really know me so little as to assume I could fall for the simple propaganda and manipulation that motivates suicide bombers? Really, I thought you were smarter than that.

I am not saying you will do that, but I am saying there is a possibility. You find yourself immune to propoganda, and manupulation, I find that laughable and naive. People raised to believe in god are manipulated into believing god, just like suicidal bombers are manipulated to do it. You put god before anything else. What if there is a possibility that a group of people are fighting to eliminate god from every picture, and are being successful? Your first priority must kick in sometime, what will you do? Will you be able to live in a world without god - which you put before everything? Maybe you are strong enough to not do anything drastic. But I find the majority of people weak. Weak so much in their beliefs that they would result in violent measures, and that is why they are dangerous for putting god before everything. I hear stories all the time about atheists in schools getting beat up because they are godless. On a larger scale, I can find them blowing up buildings, blowing up entire cities because of their beliefs.

Also, by using your logic, I could argue that since you have no god, who is to stop you from blowing up a few people because you feel like it, or you simply don't like them? No one. After all, you have no absolute moral values, so one day you could become a serial killer and start slaughtering people with no remorse.

I have absolute morals to myself, but they are not absolute in the fact that they are a part of this universe, as in it is the only real morality to be there. For me to completely change my morality is to completely change who I am. Who I am is intertwined in my morality, and vice versa, so what would it take for me to change myself completely? Nothing. Atleast, nothing I can fathom. You are using false logic that because I am an atheist - I follow sporatic morals, ever-changing throughout my life. False. That because I am an atheist, I have nothing to stop me from murdering people. False. I have my morality, absolute to me, but not to the universe. That because I am an atheist, I would have no remorse in killing people. False.

The fact that you put your country before anything else is dangerous. People can do many things by putting their country before anything else. Who's to stop you from suddenly seeing something against your country, and you become fully enraged and decide to blow up a few people? No one. It doesn't matter what your country is, people will still do horrible things because they put it first. You are no different than the nazis. There is no matter what their government stands for, and what yours stands for, it is still going to be YOU who commit the act.

I put something tangible and natural before anything else. It's called loyalty to my country. Of course, it isn't blind loyalty where I don't see anything wrong in my country, but since I was born in this country I plan to help my country prosper. But, I do it within the rules governed by my country, and I respect and enforce those rules on myself and others that serve their country just as much as I am loyal to my country. If I'm ordered to rape and kill a village woman, I wouldn't do it because of the rules that go higher than an order from a commanding officer. The rules of engagement, etc. What is so great about my country, is people can point out the fallacies of things in the country, and be able to do so. People can fight for it, or protest against it. Freedom.

[Edric O]

I am not saying you will do that, but I am saying there is a possibility. You find yourself immune to propoganda, and manupulation, I find that laughable and naive.

I can safely say I'm immune to religious propaganda and manipulation. If you find that laughable, then perhaps you do not understand the concept of a strong will.

Of course, no one is immune to brainwashing, myself included. I could be brainwashed to do something against my will, but so could anyone, regardless of their religion (or lack of it).

You put god before anything else. What if there is a possibility that a group of people are fighting to eliminate god from every picture, and are being successful? Your first priority must kick in sometime, what will you do?

I will fight against them using the exact same means that they are using. That is always my policy. I will only turn to violence against those who are using violence themselves.

On the other hand, what would YOU do if there was a group of people fighting to put God in everything, and being successful? Would YOU be able to live in a world where God is everywhere, and not do anything drastic?

Weak so much in their beliefs that they would result in violent measures, and that is why they are dangerous for putting god before everything. I hear stories all the time about atheists in schools getting beat up because they are godless. On a larger scale, I can find them blowing up buildings, blowing up entire cities because of their beliefs.

This is so pathetic. Christianity is set to become a minority religion in the USA by 2035, yet you still complain as if you lived in the 17th century. Stop deluding yourself that you're being "oppressed", Acriku. The numbers say something completely different, and the numbers don't lie.

For me to completely change my morality is to completely change who I am. Who I am is intertwined in my morality, and vice versa, so what would it take for me to change myself completely? Nothing. Atleast, nothing I can fathom. You are using false logic that because I am an atheist - I follow sporatic morals, ever-changing throughout my life. False. That because I am an atheist, I have nothing to stop me from murdering people. False. I have my morality, absolute to me, but not to the universe. That because I am an atheist, I would have no remorse in killing people. False.

I never claimed any of those things. I only said they would result from applying your own logic to yourself. I know they are false, and that was my point - your logic is fallacious.

My morality is based on Jesus's teachings. For me to completely change my morality is to completely change who I am. Who I am is intertwined in my morality, and vice versa, so what would it take for me to change myself completely? Nothing. At least, nothing I can fathom. You are using false logic that because I am a Christian - because I follow a set of well-defined morals given by Jesus Christ - I could one day somehow do something that goes completely against everything Jesus ever taught. False. I have my morality, absolute to me, as well as (I believe) to the universe. The morality of love, compassion and kindness. You are saying that because I am a Christian, I could be convinced to kill people. False.

I put something tangible and natural before anything else. It's called loyalty to my country. Of course, it isn't blind loyalty where I don't see anything wrong in my country, but since I was born in this country I plan to help my country prosper. But, I do it within the rules governed by my country, and I respect and enforce those rules on myself and others that serve their country just as much as I am loyal to my country. If I'm ordered to rape and kill a village woman, I wouldn't do it because of the rules that go higher than an order from a commanding officer. The rules of engagement, etc. What is so great about my country, is people can point out the fallacies of things in the country, and be able to do so. People can fight for it, or protest against it. Freedom.

Countries and nations, because of the personal interests of their rulers and the bigotry they cause by separating the world into "us" and "them", have caused far more wars, atrocities, violence and hatred than all other causes (including religion) combined.

Consider this:

The nazis put something tangible and natural before anything else. It was called loyalty to their country. Of course, it wasn't the kind of loyalty where they didn't see anything wrong in their country, it's just that their definition of right and wrong was different from yours. Since they were born in that country, they planned to help their country prosper. But, of course, they did it within the rules governed by their country (such as state-sanctioned mass murders, raping and pillaging) and they respected and enforced those rules on themselves and others that served their country just as much as the nazis were loyal to their own country (except if those others happened to be "sub-humans", of course - but those don't count, do they?). What was so great about their country was that it was the home of a superior race, who was destined to rule the world and exterminate the unworthy lesser races. And they had the one true doctrine that would lead them to victory. Nazism.

...it sounds sick, doesn't it? But how is it any different from what you said?

[Acriku]

On the other hand, what would YOU do if there was a group of people fighting to put God in everything, and being successful? Would YOU be able to live in a world where God is everywhere, and not do anything drastic?

That's what the reality is! God is everywhere, people are fighting to put god in everything - just look at them trying to put creationism or "ID theory" into science classes! Yet I do nothing violent. I protest, because my country allows it.

This is so pathetic. Christianity is set to become a minority religion in the USA by 2035, yet you still complain as if you lived in the 17th century. Stop deluding yourself that you're being "oppressed", Acriku. The numbers say something completely different, and the numbers don't lie.

Edric, you said that christianity would be become a minority religion in the US by 2035 - you cannot use that to assess the situation now. Christianity is flourishing everywhere now. When it is 2035, I won't be making note of such christian acts, because from your statistic there will be very few christians. But today is 2003. Not 2035.

I never claimed any of those things. I only said they would result from applying your own logic to yourself. I know they are false, and that was my point - your logic is fallacious.

Let's continue...

My morality is based on Jesus's teachings. For me to completely change my morality is to completely change who I am. Who I am is intertwined in my morality, and vice versa, so what would it take for me to change myself completely? Nothing. At least, nothing I can fathom. You are using false logic that because I am a Christian - because I follow a set of well-defined morals given by Jesus Christ - I could one day somehow do something that goes completely against everything Jesus ever taught. False. I have my morality, absolute to me, as well as (I believe) to the universe. The morality of love, compassion and kindness. You are saying that because I am a Christian, I could be convinced to kill people. False.

Following Jesus' teachings is very different than just putting god before anything else. Putting god before anything else does not include following Jesus' teachings. You have added to the situation to explain yourself, and to explain why my logic is fallacious, but indeed that is not what I said. I said putting god before everything else is dangerous, not following Jesus' teachings. It's weird that you follow empr's strategies in discussions such as these conscerning theology but you are against them in discussions conscerning politics.

Countries and nations, because of the personal interests of their rulers and the bigotry they cause by separating the world into "us" and "them", have caused far more wars, atrocities, violence and hatred than all other causes (including religion) combined.

If my country turned into a dictatorship, I would not put it into my first priority. If I see my country as an evil, racist, bigoted country, I wouldnot put it into my first priority.

The nazi situation was a lot different. Their country was in an economic depression. They just lost a serious and devastating war. They needed to get out of it. Then Hitler takes this chance, and becomes dictator of Germany. People were in a situation that only allowed Hitler to save them from the depression and devastation. They were down. Hitler brought them up. So, they followed Hitler. They didn't follow their country. They said, "Heil Hitler!" - not "Heil Germany!" They put their ruler as their first priority. These are two big differences. But also, only 33% supported Nazism. Not the entire nation.

[Edric O]

That's what the reality is! God is everywhere, people are fighting to put god in everything - just look at them trying to put creationism or "ID theory" into science classes! Yet I do nothing violent. I protest, because my country allows it.

Ah, but you forgot to mention the most important thing: They are FAILING. Not only that, but they are being pushed back. They might be very vocal about putting God in everything, but in practice God is being taken OUT of everything.

Edric, you said that christianity would be become a minority religion in the US by 2035 - you cannot use that to assess the situation now. Christianity is flourishing everywhere now . When it is 2035, I won't be making note of such christian acts, because from your statistic there will be very few christians. But today is 2003. Not 2035.

As a matter of fact, I can use that to assess the current situation, because the current situation is exactly what that statistic is based on!

"Christianity is flourishing everywhere now" - ROFLMAO! How exactly does a sharp downward trend count as "flourishing"? What you are saying it utterly absurd.

To make a comparison, you are like a Christian in the post-Constantine Roman Empire complaining about the old Roman religion "oppressing" him, while the old Roman religion was losing followers at a massive rate.

By the way, the new majority religion in the USA after the 2030's will be Islam. I hope you're happy.

Following Jesus' teachings is very different than just putting god before anything else. Putting god before anything else does not include following Jesus' teachings.

For you, maybe. For me, they are one and the same. And since these are my views we are talking about, my way of seeing them is the one that matters.

Putting God before anything else = Following Jesus' teachings

And that is why your logic is fallacious.

If my country turned into a dictatorship, I would not put it into my first priority. If I see my country as an evil, racist, bigoted country, I wouldnot put it into my first priority.

In other words, if your country turned evil, you would no longer support it, yes?

But I thought you said good and evil were relative. In that case, there is no difference between you and a nazi German soldier - both of you see your country as being good, and both of you would most likely not support it if it turned evil (by your definition).

The nazi situation was a lot different. Their country was in an economic depression. They just lost a serious and devastating war. They needed to get out of it. Then Hitler takes this chance, and becomes dictator of Germany. People were in a situation that only allowed Hitler to save them from the depression and devastation. They were down. Hitler brought them up. So, they followed Hitler. They didn't follow their country. They said, "Heil Hitler!" - not "Heil Germany!" They put their ruler as their first priority. These are two big differences. But also, only 33% supported Nazism. Not the entire nation.

"Deutchland Uber Alles"... does that ring any bells? "Germany Above All"... To them, Germany and Hitler were one and the same.

[Acriku]

Ah, but you forgot to mention the most important thing: They are FAILING. Not only that, but they are being pushed back. They might be very vocal about putting God in everything, but in practice God is being taken OUT of everything.

Oh this is hilarious. Someone from Romania trying to tell me, from USA, how the situation is! Hey edric, I live here. I experience it everyday. How the hell are you going to tell me what the situation is, based off of a statistic? It's absurd.

To make a comparison, you are like a Christian in the post-Constantine Roman Empire complaining about the old Roman religion "oppressing" him, while the old Roman religion was losing followers at a massive rate.

I never said I was being 'oppressed' I just mentioned an example of the christian 'love'.

By the way, the new majority religion in the USA after the 2030's will be Islam. I hope you're happy.

The way things are going, atheism will be right around the corner (even though it isn't a religion).

For you, maybe. For me, they are one and the same. And since these are my views we are talking about, my way of seeing them is the one that matters.

Putting God before anything else = Following Jesus' teachings

And that is why your logic is fallacious.

Oh please. You are adding definitions to the variable. Don't add anything you mentioned before, that's bogus. You could have said it before, but no you decide to add it in now.

In other words, if your country turned evil, you would no longer support it, yes?

But I thought you said good and evil were relative. In that case, there is no difference between you and a nazi German soldier - both of you see your country as being good, and both of you would most likely not support it if it turned evil (by your definition).

Notice how I didn't say evil alone, there were other factors in which I would decide whether or not to support it. I can't lean on 'evil' to decide, even that is debateable, but with the other factors that are more clean-cut, I can decide.

"Deutchland Uber Alles"... does that ring any bells? "Germany Above All"... To them, Germany and Hitler were one and the same.

Ok, I stand corrected. But the analogy is still fallacious - what's that logical fallacy? The fallacy of a faulty analogy?

[Warlord Ripskar]

You state that living organisms are incredibly complex and the relationships between them are complex. You then claim that this is evidence for the existance of "God", that there must be some form of active design element behind that complexity. You also state that "God" is complex beyond human comprehension.

If the first statement is true then the second must either be false or involve an infinately more complex being to create "God" who in turn requires another even more complex creator and so on and so forth ad nauseum.

I do not claim infinate wisdom, merely the ability to put 2 and 2 together.

[Acriku]

Don't forget to mention that they believe that because it looks as though it was designed, god must have done it. But, many things happen naturally that 'look' like they were designed, quark crystals; snowflakes; etc. Also, the ID theory has not one testable empirical implication. It's filth.

[Edric O]

Warlord Ripskar, what was that all about? I never claimed any such thing. Well, maybe you were addressing someone else...

Acriku:

Oh this is hilarious. Someone from Romania trying to tell me, from USA, how the situation is! Hey edric, I live here. I experience it everyday. How the hell are you going to tell me what the situation is, based off of a statistic? It's absurd.

I say it again, Acriku, the numbers do not lie. You might be living in the US, but that doesn't mean that your personal experience outweighs detailed population studies. Just because I live in Romania, I don't claim to know more about it than any well-informed foreigner does.

I never said I was being 'oppressed' I just mentioned an example of the christian 'love'.

Then WHO, exactly, is being oppressed? Do you know anyone personally? Do you know anyone at all?

And do you want me to start giving you links to splendid examples of "moral", "caring", "loving" atheists?

The way things are going, atheism will be right around the corner (even though it isn't a religion).

Atheism and Christianity will be more or less tied for second place for a long time. But with Islam as the dominant religion, you might start looking back to the good old days when there was nothing worse than Jack Chick around...

Oh please. You are adding definitions to the variable. Don't add anything you mentioned before, that's bogus. You could have said it before, but no you decide to add it in now.

This is below you, Acriku. Using cheap excuses to ignore what I said...

I haven't mentioned that idea before simply because it didn't come up in the conversation.

Btw, here's a news flash for you: As a conversation progresses, people add new things to it. Wow. Amazing, isn't it? ::)

Whether you will accept it or not, the fact is that putting God before anything else means to me following Jesus' teachings. What else could it mean?

Notice how I didn't say evil alone, there were other factors in which I would decide whether or not to support it. I can't lean on 'evil' to decide, even that is debateable, but with the other factors that are more clean-cut, I can decide.

Alright. So what exactly ARE those "other factors", and how are they not relative?

Ok, I stand corrected. But the analogy is still fallacious - what's that logical fallacy? The fallacy of a faulty analogy?

Oh, really? Why is it so?

As long as good and evil are relative, I don't see any problem with my analogy.

[Acriku]

Btw, here's a news flash for you: As a conversation progresses, people add new things to it. Wow. Amazing, isn't it?

Not when I am trying to tell you that putting and only putting god before everything else is dangerous.

Alright. So what exactly ARE those "other factors", and how are they not relative?

I listed them. Racism, bigotry, everything that our country stands against. Even though it happens within our country right now, it is decreasing, and hopefully to an end. But if our leaders start completely going against the constitution, and nothing is done, the country I live in will not be the same - will not be the one I was loyal towards.

Oh, really? Why is it so?

The situation is completely different. The people of Germany were in a huge depression, they had hardships and many at that. When they found out that their country could be turned around, by a charming german, they had nothing else to lose. Blinded by Hitler's promises and charm, they became blindly loyal to him and their country because of all of this. And then again, it was only 33% of the country, during the start of the war, and then increased. In my country, I can look at my government and freely judge it based on our constitution and declaration. If the analogy isn't similar to a degree, it is faulty. The situations are too different for it to be a correct analogy.

[Tibeirus]

Ok, this really sounds interesting.

First of all what people call "God" really exists. And there's proof for that. Let me illustrate:

Around 3 years ago I was totally vs. any kind of religion. I used to do steal, I got involved in fights, and many more things like that, so God wasn't a thing I was afraid of. I thought I was pretty tough but the truth was that I had lost everything, including my fate. So I say the followings: "When I could not believe in God anymore, He continued believing in me..." Let me illustrate: By that time I knew I had 2 options: Get rich or go to jail trying... I couldn't just quit. Life wasn't that great... restless nights, greed, and many human imperfections. I did not know what else to do.

Now here's how He helped me:

First of all, I had a vision (complete story in my book) and I decided to just simply quit doing my thing in the hood. I knew that if I made one wrong move it was Game Over!... So I decided to be the first that says Game Over... What happened next? I never heard of them since then as if they'd simply left this world. From a thug to a business man? At this age? Under what circumstances?

In conclusion it's simple (at least to me):

God exists and there's no hell... Sins will be forgotten and none will have to suffer. Thanks to God I'm still alive.

So here's my question:

Whom would you thank for being still alive?

Have faith!

[Tehpevis]

For the record, I just noticed my av's confusing similarity to Acriku's. Oh, well, I'll find another in time.

I've time and again referred to myself as "Apathetic Agnostic: Don't Know, Don't Care". Reason being, the only physical evidence we have as to the existence of a supreme being is the universe itself, which is too broad and all-encompassing to be used as viable evidence. Tie that to my belief that Faith is to subordinate yourself for an unspecific and pointless purpose, mostly concerning bullshit, and I won't accept an argument stating that the Bible, Qur'An, Torah, OC Bible (for teh lulz), etc. are acceptable as evidence.

[Tibeirus]

Ok, then what do you stand for? Why do you wake up every day to start it? If it's so boring and there's nothing else after you die, why don't you say enough? Why don't you commit suicide? Let me tell you why, because you don't posses yourself. Because you're not capable of possessing yourself... yet. Therefore when you die, you get to posses yourself. When you die, you start living... and this time for real. It's well known, ask those whom were in clinical death and you'll find reality to be a bit different...

[Tehpevis]

I don't stand for God; even if He, She, or It exists, I imagine the supreme being to be a very unpleasant, perhaps even stalin-esque character, assuming that the Bible is a reliable source on the nature of god. Rather, I stand for myself, my beliefs, and the well-being of my family, friends, loved ones, etc. I have plenty of reason to keep living without suicidal tendencies, even having rejected the notion of the traditional God.

[Tibeirus]

I see you like to choose from my questions to answer... If you know that you will die, doesn't it sound painful on the inside? Doesn't death sound stupid? You know, having faith makes you look at this moment and smile, and the difference between us is the fact that I'll be happy even when thinking of death. You, on the other hand will be quite nervous about this thing... perhaps not in the next years but do continue with your thinking and the last years will look pretty grim. Let me illustrate: You'll get old, you'll get sick and every day will be like torture. How do I know it? Well let's just say you are like my grandmother in thinking. The only difference is that you can still change. It's up to you...

[Tehpevis]

I see you like to choose from my questions to answer... If you know that you will die, doesn't it sound painful on the inside? Doesn't death sound stupid? You know, having faith makes you look at this moment and smile, and the difference between us is the fact that I'll be happy even when thinking of death.

I don't look forward to nor fear death. I certainly fear the pain that comes right before death (depending on how I die), but not Death itself. On an afterlife, however... Thing is, from my point of view, an eternity of Torture is undesirable for obvious reasons, and an eternity of peace and happiness gets boring after awhile. Assuming the Catholics are right, then that means I, along with most of the world's populace, will likely be sent to Purgatory to a near-eternity of Boredom and waiting in a figurative line.

The only difference is that you can still change. It's up to you...

Why do I get the impression that you have the mind of a Jehovah's Witness missionary?

[Tibeirus]

Nice, heard of them... actually I've created my own ways of communicating with God... it might sound ridiculous but it's not. Besides this, I even get feedback. And there it is, the one thing humans couldn't get. And feedback comes when you really need it. Let me illustrate:

I was charged for felony though I really didn't commit any. It was the early period since I made a change. So I had to pay for this thing, and the next day, I was standing on the stairs of my backyard asking someone imaginary: Am I supposed to pay for my past mistakes? If you really exist up there or down here... why don't you give a sunshine on my district. It was a rainy day. Right after 10-15 sec something made a hole into the dense clouds, right were the sun was at that moment and the landscape was golden....

And numerous other moments like this one. I don't think that I had countless coincidences during the last 2 years. Try to analyze this before you reply. Faith and God isn't the way common people think it is. It's much more complex. That's it...

[Tehpevis]

Try increasing your sample size. One odd event is not enough. That time could have involved a coincidental gust of wind parting a bit of cloud, or a miracle, I'm open to either (although closer to believing the former).

[Tibeirus]

Vision with someone I never heard of though I found about the fact that she really exists, and one interesting thing: I used to watch "the fields" I call it, when I was at the countryside from beneath a tree. Suddenly I saw a strange looking fly. It was something between a bee and a fly, with the wings of a dragonfly... I don't know what made me but I moved my hand to this tiny thing and it just landed on my finger. For a minute I analyzed it and then it flew away... And when I used to seat and watch the sunshine, speaking with God, a beautiful butterfly was next to me, every single time. I like to think this isn't coincidence... you may think whatever... but I'd like you to know that having faith really helps you!

[Tehpevis]

You strike me as one who enjoys the simpler things in life (the Sunshine, Fly-Bee-Dragonfly-WTF is that thing, etc.), I applaud that.

[Tibeirus]

I wanted to be simple and it has become simple. I denied the human misery and that's why people follow me. I was in misery but I couldn't stay there. Simple and positive... two words that should describe us, the people. Ok... it's almost morning in my country so I'd better rest. I've got a full day ahead and I'm ready for new experiences. Have faith!

[Dante]

I imagine this incidence of bumping will go uncontested, since we're a bit short of new replies at the moment. And whatever, life's been dull lately and I could use some philosophical meandering.

Simplicity is not exclusive to faith, nor is happiness. Nor a reason to live, come to that. Also, you can't take coincidence as a sign, it's far too subjective.

To answer the question that bumped the thread:

I don't see the necessity to thank anyone or anything for my life. There is no god, there is no fate, there is no plan, there is no purpose. The closest I get to it is a vague gratitude towards the various natural processes that permit my continued life, ie. oxygen from plants, nutrients from animals, water, etc.

I should probably specify that this is by no means replacing god with some form of pagan nature spirit or tree-hugging universal oneness. It isn't even real gratitude, as that implies some measure of effort on the part of the thing being thanked. It's more an appreciation for the chemical and physical processes that created and maintain the weird anomaly that we call life. One might appreciate a summer's day or the complexity of an insect's wing in exactly the same manner, and indeed I do.

Finally, an ellipsis conveys a pause, not necessarily a meaningful one. They don't automatically make you look deep and thoughtful. They're just dots.

[chatfsh]

I do believe that God exists and gladly thank Him for my existence.  Admittedly, I was raised as a Christian and this is most likely why I initially believed.  However, as an adult, I began to seriously question my faith and eventually strayed far from it.  For awhile there, I would have considered myself a borderline agnostic, at the very edge of theism, in that I believed that neither side (atheism or theism) was making a very good case.

Some time later, I decided to take a more objective approach in determining whether a Creator existed or whether we arrived here as the result of some irrational mechanism acting on mindless matter and energy, completely blind and totally unguided.  So I decided to take some time to examine the writings of some of the greatest minds in physics, astronomy, cosmology and biology to evaluate what they had to say concerning the origins of our universe and the complexity of living organisms.

Based upon the findings of this investigation, I arrived at the most logical conclusion -- there exists a very strong case for Intelligent Design (God).

[Sneakgab]

Even if the universe was designed by some sentient being, what makes you think that that being, was your god (specifically)?

Well, that is, if you are STILL a Christian.

[chatfsh]

Not the best example of one, but yes, I am a Christian.  But putting aside my preconceived notions and personal bias, I