They all have guns again

[Mahdi]

The screenshots showing what I think are fremen show that every single infantry has a gun! Where oh where did the shields go to?

[quoudam72]

They are in the open desert where you don't use sheilds unless you want to be worm food. As far as the guns go this is NOT based on the novels(for some strange reason) but the mini-series. I was wondering what House those guys belonged to in the first place and I am still not sure.

[davo]

What sort of weapons did the Fremen use in the miniseries (I have not seen it :( ) ?

[Gobalopper]

Mainly hand-to-hand combat although you do see some guns but they are mainly used by the Sarduakar/Harkonnen.

[davo]

Thanks Gob :)

[Guest Alex]

All the old weaponry like Paul said (rockets....) but nothing like a crys.

[davo]

Thanks :)

Did they use shields in the miniseries ?

To me it would make sense if Generations used shields and such since, I am guessing, most of the action would take place outside Dune.

[Gobalopper]

The only time I remember a shield in the last two parts was when the Emperor's Palace had it. I don't remember the first part but I don't think they used them very often...

[Guest Mithrandir]

The Atredies Palace on Dune was shielded, and the Emperor's palace. It would be cool if shields were used in the game, but it wouldn't be consistant with the books, or most of the movie. Oh yeah, and Paul used a shield skirmishing with Gurney Halleck on Caladan.

[quoudam72]

Shields would be consistant with the books. Using them in the desert was suicide they attract worms due to there high fequency vibrations. They were used elsewhere in the Imperium why else would Gurney and Paul be skirmishing with them. I was thinking about the fact that you can't use the shields in the open desert. If you can't use the sheilds would that in fact bring back the GUNS cause the shield was invented for protection against such attacks. Not only will we see the projectial gun but also lasguns or maula pistols will come into play. Dune Generations is not just based on the planet Dune but the entire Duniverse so I think the rules will stay the same but other aspects of Dune will be added.

[Guest Mithrandir]

Hey, since there are other planets, do you think shields will be allowed on those planets? I wonder if there will be "shield laws" governing the planets? Like if the moderator bans shields from an area. That would be interesting.

[quoudam72]

That is an idea Mithrandir. I would like to see the Dune Generations RPG explore what has'nt or can not be explored in the RTS games (like the Face-dancers and Gholas Fedaykin was talking about on the Sub-House thread).

[alejandro]

Dont forget that in the novel Shield+Laser=Death, so i didnt see why shields must be used.

[Mahdi]

"Dont forget that in the novel Shield+Laser=Death, so i didnt see why shields must be used."

Because lasguns cost a fucking fortune in Dune, and shields are incredibly cheap, that is why everyone uses sheilds and the rampent use of shields makes the use of lasguns extremely dangerous.

[alejandro]

"Because lasguns cost a fucking fortune in Dune, and shields are incredibly cheap, that is why everyone uses sheilds and the rampent use of shields makes the use of lasguns extremely dangerous."

I prefer a laser gun that i can use to kill my enemies than a shield that makes me worm food.

[ordos45]

I know this is useless but Mahdi I thought Moderators were to set an example. I thought we were ALL(scuse the caps) supposed to limit our cursing and that includes moderators, I think.

Because lasguns cost a *beep* fortune in Dune, and shields are incredibly cheap, that is why everyone uses sheilds and the rampent use of shields makes the use of lasguns extremely dangerous.

[alejandro]

Ol

[Mahdi]

Alex: Since the worms exist on only one planet, and only one person out of an expected 40,000 will control the planet, you arn't going to ahve to worry about worms eating your units because they ahve shields.

Ordos45: I did limit my swearing. I only said "fucking" once.

[alejandro]

So be it, long live the fighters.

[quoudam72]

LASER + SHIELD = SUB - ATOMIC FUSION (can we say booom boys and girls). Yeah Alex I must not fear.... Mahdi bad worm bad worm bad worm.

[fedaykin_jatin]

yeah was wondering about that too..

[Guest Leto Atreides II]

Some people suggested that b/c shields are useless in the open desert (disrupted by storms, calls sandworms), then guns and missiles and stuff would be useful on Arrakis.  This isn't really right.  Most of the combat in the first novel was hand to hand even if it was on Dune.  That's because most of the fighting would be done on solid rock where shields can be and were used extensively.  On Dune, they wouldn't fight in the open desert very often because:

- It's risky, all that shaking the sand would call a worm that would eat up whole armies in a single gulp.  

- Risk of storms.  

- It's too hot for prolonged combat.  

- It's hard enough just staying alive in the desert (unless you're Fremen), much less fighting on it.  Remember, this is NOT the Sahara or Death valley.  They would be like a beach compared to this.  

- There's nothing of interest (nothing worth fighting over) out there except spice & harvesters, which have to get in and out quickly, so there's no time to fight protracted battles over them on land.  So the best way to attack harvesters is from the air, with ornithopters armed with lasguns (why use projectiles if you've got really powerful and accurate lasers?).  Since the Fremen didn't have too many heavily armed ornithopters, they could attack on land, but not with vehicles, b/c that would call additional attention to them from worms, but with Fremen warriors (who could walk without rythm).  Since the harvester and its defenders wouldn't be using shields, lasguns could be used.  

- All the important locations on Arrakis were on rock (it's the only place where you could build anything permanent), and on rock, you could use shields.  So all combat on Dune, with the exception of harvester raiding and maybe the occasional desert skirmish, would be on rock, so there would be shields and no guns/lasguns.  

- Except for a few Maula pistols, most Fremen weapons (lances, etc.) were hand to hand.

In the final battle, it clearly states that the Fremen were jumping off the worms and engaging the Sardaukar in hand to hand combat.  Why would they do this if they could just shoot lasguns at them from the top of the worms?  B/c they had SHIELDS.

So even in those rare fights in the desert, you'd NEVER use vehicles, unless they were airlifted in, but that's not really worth it b/c they could be easily cut apart with lasbeams.  One would NEVER drive a vehicle onto the open desert for the same reason one wouldn't use a shield in the open desert.  It attracts worms like crazy (even walking at a steady pace, you attract worms a bit).  They use harvesters in the desert b/c they have no other way of getting spice, and even then, the harvesters avoid contact with the sand as much as possible (caryalls).  And on rock, there are shields, making tanks/missiles/artillery all useless.

Projectile weapons WERE used a few times in the first Dune novel.  In the beginning, the Atreides were making a last stand in some caves.  The Harkonnens anticipated this and had some artillery dug up from a museum or something and shot them at the mountains/rocks above, sealing the caves.  If the Atreides troops weren't using shields in that battle the whole time, the Harkonnen could have just shot the artillery AT the troops.

The Fremen used a few rocket launchers.  Mainly, they were used in the end when the Emperor and a whole bunch of Houses landed a whole bunch of frigates in some big parking lot or something.  To keep the Emperor and company from retreating into space, Paul had a rocket launcher trained on the nose of every frigate.  When the atomics blew a hole in the Shield Wall, the storm temporarily disrupted the shields protecting the frigate parking lot, at which time the prepped rocket launchers quickly disabled all the frigates before the shields came back on line (hence, the need to have a rocket trained on every nose beforehand).

Then the Fremen came in on their sandworms, leapt off the worms (they couldn't fight from up there, and the Sandworms couldn't go too far onto rock) and engaged the Sardaukar in hand-to-hand combat.

There were actually some vehicles in that final battle, but it was a little vague.  I believe a few Fremen were deployed as skirmishers/scouts, and the enemy was trying to reconnoiter.  Someone reported to Paul, "They are probing with groundcars."  And then, something like, "We are using shields to compensate."  So I assumed that the groundcars were armed with cannon or machine guns and since the Fremen were wearing shields, the groundcars were useless against them.

[quoudam72]

Yada yada yada we said most of this did you not read the entire thread? :) So what you are saying is that it should be all infantry with just swords and very little battle?

[daniel]

sup guys anywaz at the top about the guns...the fremen di haf guns..its not like they all fought only with spears or they'll all be gunned down lol....anywaz in the original dune they used machine guns and missiles on the attack on the emporprs ship on dune in the end..sorri if i ruined the ending guys  ::)

[Sly1]

I love guns...and this makes post number three for me! ::)