which country will be the new super power?

[Edric O]

Personally, I loathe the fact that even one single US company is in China. I wish they would all pull out. I wish we would make a law forbidding any US company to function in China. BUt that would be a devastating foreign relations policy. And I'm sure several of my European friends in here would bash the US if they did that.

Actually, I would PRAISE you if you did that... If the US would pass such a law against using cheap (aka slave) labour, my opinion of your government would improve by miles.

We totally agree on this point, Emprworm. And I hope someone quotes this post so you can see that...

[Acriku]

There is no reason they don't make the products in the USA other than the fact that it is cheaper to make it in other countries. Laws should be passed, these companies should not be exploiting human people to gain a shiny buck.

[emprworm]

There is no reason they don't make the products in the USA other than the fact that it is cheaper to make it in other countries. Laws should be passed, these companies should not be exploiting human people to gain a shiny buck.

here is the problem with that Acriku: A United STates law already exists forbidding the use of cheap labor. (it is called minimum wage and age law). Health standards are also in place.

Now here is my question: How can a US law have any power in the soil of China? Cmon!!! A US company (say, Nike) that has plants in China is governed under the laws of China . There is no US law that applies to China. So you cannot blame the US for workers who get paid 5 cents an hour in China. BLAME CHINA!!

BLAME CHINA!!

BLAME CHINA!!

IF CHINA WOULD RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE AND IMPLEMENT MINIMUM WORK STANDARDS, THEN US COMPANIES WOULD PULL OUT! BUT RIGHT NOW US COMPANIES CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT CHINA'S LOCAL LAWS.

Should the US pull out of China car blanche? YES, I THINK SO! But it would be a foreign relations disaster.

THE **BEST** solution is for China to simply treat its citizens better and pass laws that raise minimum work standars. BADA-BOOM! BADA BING! problem solved

[Acriku]

Why go to that extent when you can just make a few laws forbidding any foreign plantation and labor for domestic companies, although it would be more complex than that I am just suggesting an idea. We can focus on getting rid of China's communism (although I find the population control to be appealing) with more focus at a later time.

[emprworm]

Why go to that extent when you can just make a few laws forbidding any foreign plantation and labor for domestic companies, although it would be more complex than that I am just suggesting an idea. We can focus on getting rid of China's communism (although I find the population control to be appealing) with more focus at a later time.

well i would agree with this. i would seriously support the idea of forbidding any US company to function in China. But that would cripple China's economy and be a foreign relations disaster. I would still support it, though.

However, the true problem is not that the US has companies in China. there is nothing wrong with a company from one country existing in another country!! that kind of blind patriotism (where only French companies can be in France, only Irish companies can be in Ireland) is racist and dark-age mentality. The world community should encourage companies from all countries existing in all countries.

Having a US company in China is absolutely not a bad thing in itself.

What makes it bad? US laws? I don't think so. What makes it bad is CHINA'S LAWS. China is to blame for not having basic working standards. Because of this utter failure on China's part (and part of the reason their economy is doing so "good"), I think the US should pull out.

But that WONT solve the problem. If the US pulls out, guess what? CHINA WILL **STILL** be using cheap labor!!!

THe only...repeat only way to solve the problem is not a US pull-out, but China treating its peasents like dignified human beings.

[Acriku]

Emprworm, that is the reason why I said it was more complex than what I have said.

[Terror]

well let's say it like this: Europe and the USA are too expensive for most companies compared to countries like India and China, resulting in a massive movement of companies to these countries. China WILL grow substantially in the coming 10 years. USA will not be the worlds superpower much longer, that's one thing I CAN tell you

you cant say this at all.

you forget something key here: China's utter dependency upon western companies. China is making billions....uber billions off of US companies that are producing there. Personally, I hate it. China has poor labor practices and hideious minimum wages.

Why are US companies there? Simply because China doesn't require them to pay their workers as much as in the US. Whos fault is that?

Chinas fault. (sorry but it is the fault of China for allowing cheap labor on their own soil)

If China raised their minimum wages and started treating their own people better, guess what? US companies would pull out. Capitalism does not require cheap labor. Capitalism simply uses cheap labor if its available. If its unavailable, then it doesn't use it simple as that. China's "strong" economy exists off the backs of its peasent workers who put in 40 hour workweeks for US companies on China's soil- of which the massive profits go partly back to the US, and partly to China.

If the US companies pulled out of CHina, let there be no doubt- it would free fall. THis is why China will not be raising their standards for their poor people anytime soon. This is why china will continue to oppress their people.

Personally, I loathe the fact that even one single US company is in China. I wish they would all pull out. I wish we would make a law forbidding any US company to function in China. BUt that would be a devastating foreign relations policy. And I'm sure several of my European friends in here would bash the US if they did that.

Either the US pulls out of China or China is going to have to raise their standards for their workers.

BOth are unlikely. But don't blame the US for China's awful work standards. that is china's fault 100%

that's a matter of years, and china can support itself totally. They surely have the manpower, and the will to grow, just like the USA had in the past, however luxury has made people lazy and demand higher wages, whereas the Chinese are not customed to such high payments and accept everything they can get. Even now, companies like support services are located in asian countries, cuz they do their work at least as good as the people in the US do, and they're a lot cheaper.

[emprworm]

yes, you did say that. :) well, remember that I too said I would agree with an abrubt and complete US pull-out. I would support that. I wish we wouldn't have too, but I would support that.

[emprworm]

They surely have the manpower, and the will to grow, just like the USA had in the past, however luxury has made people lazy and demand higher wages, whereas the Chinese are not customed to such high payments and accept everything they can get. Even now, companies like support services are located in asian countries, cuz they do their work at least as good as the people in the US do, and they're a lot cheaper.

lol! You think peasents are happy being peasents? C'mon. They accept their lives and make the best of it, but you don't think they know that their same level or work in an European or American company would earn them 20X the amount? You think they are happy living in run down huts for homes? They are in poverty. Poverty is all over China. A country that makes billions piled onto billions, yet its people outside their major cities look like they are third world. They are by nature hard workers...they accept their place in life...it doesn't mean that it is right. US companies should pull out! But even more than that....CHINA should make laws for its own people. If the US pulls out, cheap labor in China will still exist, making the US blameless in this problem that is fully China's problem.

[nemafakei]

Edric put this in, which I assume you can't see, else you'd have... no, I won't go there.

"Actually, I would PRAISE you if you did that... If the US would pass such a law against using cheap (aka slave) labour, my opinion of your government would improve by miles.

We totally agree on this point, Emprworm. And I hope someone quotes this post so you can see that... "

"but China treating its peasents like dignified human beings."

Agreed. Unfortunately, US companies will go elsewhere, as wages are higher in China, and so less investment will come in and so China will be poorer, so the peasants will be paid less... just a thought. Hehe.

[TMA_1]

hey empr, you are like in your 30s... what is the point to force your opinions on mostly younger teens? kinda pathetic man.lol

[emprworm]

Edric put this in, which I assume you can't see, else you'd have... no, I won't go there.

"Actually, I would PRAISE you if you did that... If the US would pass such a law against using cheap (aka slave) labour, my opinion of your government would improve by miles.

We totally agree on this point, Emprworm. And I hope someone quotes this post so you can see that... "

"but China treating its peasents like dignified human beings."

Agreed. Unfortunately, US companies will go elsewhere, as wages are higher in China, and so less investment will come in and so China will be poorer, so the peasants will be paid less... just a thought. Hehe.

thanks for that quote of Edric. Looks like we agree on something. However, Edric is mistaken about US laws. Those laws are already passed and in full force in the US. THose laws do not exist in China, however. I think we can reword Edric's sentence to a more accurate version:

"If CHINA would pass such a law against using cheap (aka slave) labour..."

[emprworm]

hey empr, you are like in your 30s... what is the point to force your opinions on mostly younger teens? kinda pathetic man.lol

wow, what a contribution to the thread!

i dont force my opinion on anyone. how about you stop with your incessant off topic "side" remarks. Are you a younger teen? How about you put me on ignore because you have a teenage tendency to constantly insert little off topic remarks like that in all my threads. Disagree with my opinion, but do it in the context of the thread, and not by tossing in an entire post that is nothing more than a meaningless red-herring. i think you will be much happier in this forum if you ignore me.

[Edric O]

I meant the US passing laws to prevent any US companies from using slave labour anywhere in the world.

The only alternative would be to somehow raise the standards of living everywhere in the world to the US/European level... which is my life's dream, but which I don't see happening very soon...

[nemafakei]

"I think we can reword Edric's sentence to a more accurate version"

No, you may not. That is twisting someone's words, and removing an implication that you do not like. Please apologise.

His clarification, if you'll listen, is: "I meant the US passing laws to prevent any US companies from using slave labour anywhere in the world.

The only alternative would be to somehow raise the standards of living everywhere in the world to the US/European level... which is my life's dream, but which I don't see happening very soon... ".

TMA, your remark was indeed a little offtopic... that sort of thing will just get him annoyed, and he will not listen because it's offtopic. Put it in a new thread or something, or that rants thread.

[emprworm]

"I think we can reword Edric's sentence to a more accurate version"

No, you may not. That is twisting someone's words, and removing an implication that you do not like. Please apologise.

His clarification, if you'll listen, is: "I meant the US passing laws to prevent any US companies from using slave labour anywhere in the world.

The only alternative would be to somehow raise the standards of living everywhere in the world to the US/European level... which is my life's dream, but which I don't see happening very soon... ".

TMA, your remark was indeed a little offtopic... that sort of thing will just get him annoyed, and he will not listen because it's offtopic. Put it in a new thread or something, or that rants thread.

"I think we can reword Edric's sentence to a more accurate version"

No, you may not. That is twisting someone's words, and removing an implication that you do not like. Please apologise."

LOL! Ok, I'm sorry.

But I will re-state it then to a version I believe is more accurate.

If CHINA would pass such a law against using cheap (aka slave) labour..."

"His clarification, if you'll listen, is: "I meant the US passing laws to prevent any US companies from using slave labour anywhere in the world."

which solves nothing. slave labor will still exist. what he proposes is that US companies pull out of China. Fine, I will take that, but it is not a solution and is not the best thing to do. If US companies pull out of China, China will still use slave labor (as he calls it). To truly solve the problem, you must address CHINESE laws, not US laws.

"TMA, your remark was indeed a little offtopic... that sort of thing will just get him annoyed, and he will not listen because it's offtopic. Put it in a new thread or something, or that rants thread."

Ahhh!!! thank you. Why would anyone listen to off topic jabs and flames? I know that if I made a post taht said that, I would be immediately confronted fiercely. In fact, just by me saying "let me reword Edrics post" you came in here demanding an apology.

I noticed that you are not asking TMA to apologize even though what he said was far more personal. SO even though I respect your objectivity here, I still see some personal bias from you Nema against me.

Let me ask you: Why did you demand I apologize to Edric for saying (as part of a post) ""I think we can reword Edric's sentence"

and not demand an apology for TMA saying (as an entire post) "hey empr, you are like in your 30s... what is the point to force your opinions on mostly younger teens? kinda pathetic man.lol"

And then regarding Edric you confronted me directly saying I was twisting words. But in regards to TMA you pandered him saying "a little off topic" "that sort of thing will get him annoyed" "he will not listen"

nice little "inserts" there Nema.

not that I need an apology from TMA, but I am curious as to this apparent abandonment of neutral objectivity in board moderation

[Edric O]

which solves nothing. slave labor will still exist. what he proposes is that US companies pull out of China. Fine, I will take that, but it is not a solution and is not the best thing to do. If US companies pull out of China, China will still use slave labor (as he calls it). To truly solve the problem, you must address CHINESE laws, not US laws.

Of course. And if you look at the second paragraph of my post, I said the exact same thing.

Btw, please don't nipick posts... you're arguing against Nema just based on semantics. And for the record, I see no need for an apology.

[TMA_1]

I am blunt with what I say to you.

"or that rants thread"

nice job being an ass.lol

[emprworm]

I am blunt with what I say to you.

"or that rants thread"

nice job being an ass.lol

i thought you were already asked not to post personal jabs, where that is your entire post. yet here you are, your very next post, making another personal jab.

Board mods?

[TMA_1]

they wont respond. I will quiet down out of respect to the moderators. Not to you though. I suggest not running away.

I believe that how things are going, China will become a super power. I heard from a friend in the navy that is really into personal study, that within 15 years, their technology will surpass ours. They are very very powerful already. Dangerous stuff.

[emprworm]

they wont respond. I will quiet down out of respect to the moderators. Not to you though. I suggest not running away.

if you are asked by a board mod to quiet down to me, i think you should do it. if you want to hollar at me, then you can do it via IM.

[Gobalopper]

TMA there is no need for comments like that. If you don't like emprworm fine. But if you are going to post in a thread post some worthwhile not jabs at people.

[TMA_1]

yup, I cleared it up in the iraq one. Sorry empr, I was out of line.

As I was saying. China is the biggest threat in my opinion. Currently, they are not showing large signs of hostility, but are growing technologically to the point of surpassing us. I fear that soon they will not only have more man power but also greater military-technological advancements.

[emprworm]

why would that fear you?

[TMA_1]

because they could destroy the western world potentially. They probably wouldnt, but they arent our friend. That makes them an enemy. If an enemy is more powerful than us, than it is a danger to us and our allies.