Iraq Issues

[Miles]

Oh, and one more thing... I wonder why those pro-war and pro-mass murder protestors joined the ANTI-war protests just to mock them instead of rallying up their own?

Ah, I think I know: Because no one else would join their pro-genocide rallies in favour of war.

"pro-mass murder...pro genocide" Give me a break. If we go to war, innocent civilians will be killed unintentionally. This I concede, but there is a difference between unintentional deaths and mass murder. Mass murder--the willing execution of large numbers of innocent people lies in the hands of Saddam Hussein. Or have you fogotten his past.

Sorry, but there is plenty of support for this war. If you don't want to see it and jump on your bandwagon of peace at any price, then so be it. You can be responsible for the mass murder after Saddam gets WMD(actually he already has them), after he gains the same status as N.Korea.

Let me ask you this--would Saddam Hussein even have given an illusion of cooperation without U.S. and it's (real) allies pressure?

[Gobalopper]

Iraqi 'terror ships' at sea

[Acriku]

just shows the lunacy of the white caucasion euro/american anti-war nuts.

of course, the Iraqi people have a much different view then the white caucasion euro/americans who want to keep them oppressed and enslaved.

Typical white man.

Why do you insist on calling it the white euro/americans? People all over the world are protesting in the streets in the millions - such as Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, etc. It's stupid and ignorant to call it the white euro/american view or protest.

[emprworm]

just shows the lunacy of the white caucasion euro/american anti-war nuts.

of course, the Iraqi people have a much different view then the white caucasion euro/americans who want to keep them oppressed and enslaved.

Typical white man.

Why do you insist on calling it the white euro/americans? People all over the world are protesting in the streets in the millions - such as Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, etc. It's stupid and ignorant to call it the white euro/american view or protest.

naa, its basically the white man. fine maybe not all Eruo/american- but majority white man. Its basically white man dictating that the pleas for another race of people who desperately long for freedom are denied.

This is racism 1820's style. White man is very experienced in denying people freedom. Today it is no different. Now I understand that there are those who are not white who still want to deny people freedom, but the majority- MAJORITY are white, caucasion euro/americans.

I think it was 700,000 or something like that in England. ANd how many protested in Urugray? What 75? 80 maybe?

Ya, its a white man thing. 1820's style.

[Acriku]

You sound very pessimistic. Ever think some people don't want all of the violence and bloodshed?

http://www.planetark.org/envpicstory.cfm/newsid/19862

http://www.planetark.org/envpicstory.cfm/newsid/19598

Protesting in Brazil, and Argentina, numbers not shown for some reason however on CNN they mentioned the numbers being in the hundreds of thousands.

Edit: http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/02/1574236.php has 30,000 protesting.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2003/Protest-Iraq-War16feb03.htm has 10,000 in Mexico City, "2,000 Israelis and Palestinians marched together against war in Tel Aviv on Saturday night," 2,000 in Ukraine, and 900 Puerto Ricans. So no this isn't a white euro/american view.

[emprworm]

You sound very pessimistic. Ever think some people don't want all of the violence and bloodshed?

a valid argument - a white man in 1830 protesting a slave revolt- too much violence and bloodshed. If those slaves would just do their jobs, no one would need to die.

your numbers of people from south america are mainly the descendents of white europeans. true they aren't exactly caucasion, but still they can be called the white man. Euro-descendents like Americans. THis is white man demanding a race of people live in servitude and forced slavery. 1820's style.

Again, the one people group that really mattered in all these protests- Iraqi's - were mysteriously not around. The answer? Because they support the removal of Hussein. It is white man who wants to keep them from returning home again to their families. Racist, bigoted....white man.

[Acriku]

Oh my god Emprworm you really are ignorant and stubborn to the death. Latin Americans are white now? Brazilians are white men? Your argument doesn't stand, and you are being very stubborn on your view of the evil white man.

a valid argument - a white man in 1830 protesting a slave revolt- too much violence and bloodshed. If those slaves would just do their jobs, no one would need to die.

This is totally different, slave owners in the early 1800s used violence to hunt down and punish the revolters, they never protested.

[emprworm]

Oh my god Emprworm you really are ignorant and stubborn to the death.

lol! its true man. this is all my perspective of things, Acriku. Don't take anything personal please. It is just my perspective.

A slave revolt would cause many deaths...would it not? Deaths that could have been prevented. That is basically your argument from my perspective. We don't want any bloodshed, so allow the slavery, exilism, and human debacery to continue. Prevent the 100,000+ Iraqi exiles from going home to their loved ones. Keep them oppressed and in servitude without freedom. Do not allow them to run their own country, but appease Hussein and rob the Iraqi people of their human dignity, keeping them oppressed when you have the power to stop it.

Again, to me this is nothing more than global white man oppression. Its a 21st century version...so its looks nice and palatable. But so did global white man oppression in 1820. TO majority of world citizens, it looked nice and delicious to them too.

[Acriku]

The protestors aren't saying no more war and that is that, they want more alternatives, because they realize this "slavery" (extending the use of the analogy) is bad, but they don't want to use death to solve it. Which is why many want the more time with inspections.

[emprworm]

The protestors aren't saying no more war and that is that, they want more alternatives, because they realize this "slavery" (extending the use of the analogy) is bad, but they don't want to use death to solve it. Which is why many want the more time with inspections.

there is no alternative to oppression except for freedom.

freedom..historically...comes with a price. the price is usually colored red. And no one who has paid that price to obtain it has looked upon it with regret

[Acriku]

Emprworm, that's the protestors' problem, I am pro-war and I understand your point, I was just putting myself in the protestors' shoes.

[Edric O]

there is no alternative to oppression except for freedom.

freedom..historically...comes with a price. the price is usually colored red. And no one who has paid that price to obtain it has looked upon it with regret

That is correct. HOWEVER, it has always been the opressed themselves who fought for freedom, not some self-righteous foreign power who claimed to speak in their name!

And you know why? Because self-righteous foreign powers never give the opressed the freedom they promised to them.

[Miles]

there is no alternative to oppression except for freedom.

freedom..historically...comes with a price. the price is usually colored red. And no one who has paid that price to obtain it has looked upon it with regret

That is correct. HOWEVER, it has always been the opressed themselves who fought for freedom, not some self-righteous foreign power who claimed to speak in their name!

And you know why? Because self-righteous foreign powers never give the opressed the freedom they promised to them.

You couldn't be more wrong. I very much hate to give the French credit with how they act now, but the U.S. would probably not be a free country without foreign intervention. An we DO have the freedom the French helped us to gain.

[emprworm]

there is no alternative to oppression except for freedom.

freedom..historically...comes with a price. the price is usually colored red. And no one who has paid that price to obtain it has looked upon it with regret

That is correct. HOWEVER, it has always been the opressed themselves who fought for freedom, not some self-righteous foreign power who claimed to speak in their name!

And you know why? Because self-righteous foreign powers never give the opressed the freedom they promised to them.

You couldn't be more wrong. I very much hate to give the French credit with how they act now, but the U.S. would probably not be a free country without foreign intervention. An we DO have the freedom the French helped us to gain.

well i was forced to read some3thing Edric said. lol, pretty horrible indeed. what is says basically, is that you should sit around and watch, like a television sit com, weak people being butchered and oppressed, until somehow, one day, they can manage to rise up and revolt on their own. ignore pleas for help. ignore mindless slaughter and genocide. i bet that makes for a great tv show eh? imagine the ratings. all those white europeans and americans tuning in everynight to see another woman being beaten, shot, and raped by a uniformed facist policeman

[Edric O]

...or you could start a war, remove their government, take over their natural resources, and actually torture those people YOURSELF, instead of watching others do it. ::)

[nemafakei]

Or you could go about removing ALL oppression in the world. [sarcasm]I wonder why that isn't happening?[/sarcasm]

[emprworm]

Or you could go about removing ALL oppression in the world. [sarcasm]I wonder why that isn't happening?[/sarcasm]

slowly but surely. it took a hundred years to end slavery Nema. just because we cant magically solve the worlds problem #'s 1 - 1,234,221 tomorrow doesn't mean we shouldnt solve problem # 1. One at a time.

the argument that because problems 1 - 1,234,221 cant be solved simultaneously therefore dont solve problem #1 is not a good argument to me. Maybe the problems aren't being solved in the order you want, but nontheless, they are being solved

[Acriku]

[offtopic]It didn't take a hundred years to end slavery, it took a war that lasted 1861-1865 and on June 4 1865 slavery was ended, and not entirely free till one year later roughly. [/offtopic]

[TMA_1]

dude empr, there are far worse problems than iraq. Why are you fixated on iraq? President bush is because he knows that is the perfect political move. People are seeing through him though. Iraq is miniscule to other issues. Like christians being killed by the hundreds in africa, slavery of christians there. People being slaughtered in many muslim countries. You are just a follower of bush and are just reciting the same old crap he says. you have nothing intelligent to say, just somebody elses opinion.

[emprworm]

dude empr, there are far worse problems than iraq. Why are you fixated on iraq?

because the topic of this thread is..........

*drumroll*

IRAQ ISSUES!

<personal flames and irrelevant off topic attacks snipped>

[emprworm]

this is 2 threads, by the way, that TMA has taken off topic just to ridicule me. Mods please?

[Acriku]

So block him, didn't stop you from blocking Edric?

[emprworm]

because going off topic is specifically against forum rules. I should be able to appeal to a mod for this. superimposing swastikas on other people's countries is not necessarily against policy rules, though I think a case could be made. But blocking was better in that case. But these off topic personal attacks are blatant violations of the forum. I am making an appeal to a mod here.

[Miles]

...or you could start a war, remove their government, take over their natural resources, and actually torture those people YOURSELF, instead of watching others do it. ::)

That's just a idiotic statement. None of these, except removing the current regime, is our intention. The American people would like to be in and out as quickly as we can after helping to establish a democratic government. I don't know where you are reading your propaganda from, but you've got everything wrong.

[TMA_1]

how you act and carry yourself is not off topic. I cannot make a topic on telling you to be considerate. I am a moderator in the Duniverse forum. I like to think that people respect me. I cannot say that for sure. I tell you this stuff because you need to hear it. It is perfectly on topic. Grow up.