Creation by God / Big Bang Theory

paul_of_arrakis · January 30, 2003

How was the earth made? Did god really build the earth in 7 days like it says in genesis, or is that theory ruled out by the more modern and more socially acceptable big bang? What evidence is there for/against that?

Edric O · January 30, 2003

And thus begins a thread with at least 10 pages...

Timenn · January 30, 2003

People. God is not equal to science. It is whether you believe in Him or not (or any equivalent, I mean other religions) You can, like Edric says, debate 10 pages about it. But does it help?

Anathema · January 30, 2003

Not all creationists opose the Bing Bang theory, instead believe that God caused it.

paul_of_arrakis · January 30, 2003

what would you be more enclined to believe and why?

Edric O · January 30, 2003

The real question is this: Why do people insist on replacing God with evolution, or the other way around? Evolution is just another scientific theory, like relativity, etc. It should NOT be a topic of religious debate!

God and evolution can perfectly co-exist. "Genesis-as-allegory" is the way I see it. This allegory was absolutely essential, because there's no way you're gonna make 5th Century BC shepards believe that their ancestors were apes!

Why is there no science in the Bible? Because science constantly changes as our understanding of the world grows! The Bible was meant to last forever. So which science shall we use for it? Roman science, modern-day science or future science? Either way, you end up with a very narrow timeframe in which that science is "valid".

How do I tell which parts of the Bible are methaphors (or allegories, etc.) and which parts are facts? Simple: Everything than can be understood by people in every century is fact (e.g. Jesus went there and did that). But "sensitive" scientific subjects (like Creation) are not facts, because the actual facts cannot be understood by all the people throughout history!

Just imagine if the Bible used the scientific knowledge of the year 5000. It would look like complete jibberish to us.

sneezer3 · January 30, 2003

before anybody says anything.

The big bang is kind of a silly theory if you ask me.

You can't get something from nothing. with that theory you can. it is impossable. thought could not have evoloved. there should have been more layers of dust on the moon.

for more on this see the fallowing links:

http://www.psalm118.org/creation.htm

http://www.chick.com/reading/books/253/0253_34.asp

The Bible says theres only one way to heaven.

John 14:6
I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh to the father but by me.
John 14:6

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by Grace are ye saved though faith and that not of yourselfs it is the gift of God. not of works lest any man should boost.

paul_of_arrakis · January 30, 2003

i agree with you (sneeezer3). The creation in genesis is much more simple, down to earth and easier to understand. But we must take into account the many scientists who have devoted their lives to prooving both theories.

sneezer3 · January 30, 2003

Why is there no science in the Bible? Because science constantly changes as our understanding of the world grows! The Bible was meant to last forever. So which science shall we use for it? Roman science, modern-day science or future science? Either way, you end up with a very narrow timeframe in which that science is "valid".
How do I tell which parts of the Bible are methaphors (or allegories, etc.) and which parts are facts? Simple: Everything than can be understood by people in every century is fact (e.g. Jesus went there and did that). But "sensitive" scientific subjects (like Creation) are not facts, because the actual facts cannot be understood by all the people throughout history!
Just imagine if the Bible used the scientific knowledge of the year 5000. It would look like complete jibberish to us.

Your wrong. and the Bible was not ment to last forever, ever heard of the Rapture?

Just imagine if the Bible used the scientific knowledge of the year 5000. It would look like complete jibberish to us.

lol, some Christan. c'mon Edric. you know God wrote it. therefore it is errorless and has stuff up to date.

If you don't belive it has any science in it look up Nahum 2:4 and look carefully at a car. and look carefully at care pullution on trees that has been happending recently.

please see this link.

http://www.chick.com/reading/books/253/0253_03.asp

Edric O · January 30, 2003

Sneezer, I'd just like to note that your "argument" is about to be demolished by Ace and Acriku. You really should post something logical for once.

Alright, maybe "forever" isn't the right term, but the Bible WAS meant to last for several millenia, if not more. In such a huge time interval, science changes A LOT.

sneezer3 · January 30, 2003

i agree with you (sneeezer3). The creation in genesis is much more simple, down to earth and easier to understand. But we must take into account the many scientists who have devoted their lives to prooving both theories.

the number of people beliveing something is irrlevent. looking at the theroy itself is what that matters. You can't get something from nothing. and you can't get life from nothing. That a fact.

sneezer3 · January 30, 2003

You really should stop the Bible-bashing and post something logical for once.

how was that not logical? please explan.

Edric O · January 30, 2003

lol, some Christan. c'mon Edric. you know God wrote it. therefore it is errorless and has stuff up to date.

"It's errorless because it says so." Yeah, VERY logical... ::)

You can't get something from nothing. with that theory you can. it is impossable

Within the universe, yes. Outside of it, no.

There is no proof for creationism. None.

Elite47 · January 30, 2003

How the hell can u believe either theory? Understanding how the world was created is IMPOSSIBLE! Did u or anyone u know or anyone ever knew see the world be created? NO. So noone has seen it. Well then u gotta find some evidence. Does anyone have any evidence of how the earth was created? Words dont cut it. Words can just as easily be lies. No such thing as a camera that long ago. Why would u want to believe something that noones has a scrap of evidence about?! I sure as hell wouldn't. Maybe the feeling of knowing how the world was created would makes u feel comfortable and secure. Christians talk about being 'saved'. Ur *hoping* and dreaming of this super godly being that is gonna SAVE you. I can't even imagine this. God created you, and if you're good by the time its time for you to die, you will be 'saved'... amazing.

paul_of_arrakis · January 30, 2003

well. look at it this way, going on the theory that if god exists (WHICH HE DOES) then jesus existed, WHAT IS THE TURIN SHROUD? Keeping with logic, then most other things that occured in the bible are true, including creation by god.

Edric O · January 30, 2003

Listen, sneezer, I have no reason to argue with you. We are both Christians, and we should stand united even though we do not share the same opinion.

I said what I wanted to say. I've shown how and WHY Christianity and evolution can perfectly co-exist. The allegory of Genesis was necessary so that everyone would be able to understand it.

Now I will stop posting in this topic, because I don't like Creation/Evolution arguments. I'll just let the others carry it into the top 10 topics list. :)

sneezer3 · January 30, 2003

lol, some Christan. c'mon Edric. you know God wrote it. therefore it is errorless and has stuff up to date.
"It's errorless because it says so." Yeah, VERY logical... ::)
You can't get something from nothing. with that theory you can. it is impossable
Within the universe, yes. Outside of it, no.
There is no proof for creationism. None.

Outside the universe?

What are you talking about? outside the universe there would be nothing to hold anything. and no laws and nothing. whatsoever. INCLUDEING: geting something from nothing. or any type of "big bang".

Think of it this way. you have nothing. no universe or anything. how do you get something?

There is no direct evedence for the bible that i am aware of. the only way to prove it is to go back in time. which is impossable. however. there is a lot of indirect evedence. Like man was formed out of the dust of the earth. they have found (although i can't name the exact substances) the same stuff in a humen as in the dirt. They think they have found Solmens temple. stuff like that.

However, there is no evedence that there is a such thing as wind either, just lots of indirect evedence. like Wind Tunnles. and i hear they where able to see wind perticols(or however you spell that word)

I might add, there is no proff of Evolution either. 8) EDIT not that hasn't been debunked anyway.

paul_of_arrakis · January 30, 2003

I (me) am not against you here edric, nor against sneezer, please don't stop posting here, but take this issue somewhere else.

Is there any evidence for the big bang theory?

Dante · January 30, 2003

No comment. I don't want to be dragged into yet another of these, despite my opinions on the subject.

Elite47 · January 30, 2003

well. look at it this way, going on the theory that if god exists (WHICH HE DOES) then jesus existed, WHAT IS THE TURIN SHROUD? Keeping with logic, then most other things that occured in the bible are true, including creation by god.

I have no clue what the TURIN SHROUD is and i dont care to know either.

emprworm · January 30, 2003

i agree with you (sneeezer3). The creation in genesis is much more simple, down to earth and easier to understand. But we must take into account the many scientists who have devoted their lives to prooving both theories.

but no scientist has proven any theory. the big bang is perfectly compatible with creationism. i believe in the big bang, actually. but what caused the big bang? obviously something not part of the universe. today's scientific atheist actually says that the universe arrived uncaused. it just popped into being via nothing. that, of course, is more miraculous than anything mentioned in the Bible, which is a far more simplistic view then the universe popping ex-nihlo "from nothing."

Dante · January 30, 2003

I have no clue what the TURIN SHROUD is and i dont care to know either.

Alright, I kow I said I wouldn't... but this is a fact (I think) not an opinion. As far as I know the Turin shroud is a cloth said to bear the face of Christ. I do not know whether this is true or not, just that it has been carbon dated to be several hundred years younger than it was thought.

... ok maybe now I'll go...

sneezer3 · January 31, 2003

but no scientist has proven any theory. the big bang is perfectly compatible with creationism.

It is not compatable.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Gen 1:1

All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. - Jn 1:3 Without nothing made

Without him was nothing made therefore thows evolution into the toilet adn flushs it away.

Even that i gave a link to the soul-winners handy guide i'm going to post a quote.

In reality, life, with its complexities, cannot come from inorganic matters without any external intelligence or help.
Can plasters, timbers and nails, when left on their own, organize themselves into a house or an apartment? Can an explosion in a printing shop result in an unabridged dictionary being produced? They can't and neither can the complexity of life evolve from inorganic matters by itself without an external intelligence, no matter how long the time element may be.

It is a fact you can't get something from nothing. There would have been nothing. no universe. no laws. no NOTHING. therefore the Big Bang can't happen.

thomas · January 31, 2003

Has anyone here ever hear of an author of several books depating creation and how its related to the big bang theory? His name is Hugh Ross. has anyone ever heard of him?

kblackthorne · January 31, 2003

Some years ago, when we were all in college, my roomate's fianc

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