The Power Of Freedom In Democracy Crumbeling Beneath Us?

[GhostHunter]

Ok this is a thread about YOUR opinions, so please I mean PLEASE this is not a thread to try to spam everything America does...I just want your opinions etc...

With war seeming inevitable and Americas Sept 11th acts since then, doesn't it seem the land of freedom is getting a little less free and taken over by more paranoia?

[Acriku]

IMO this is only a desperate time, when everything settles (or if) certain laws, practices, acts, etc, that limits one's freedom will be nonexistant. Sort of.

[DukeLeto]

When Bush get's thrown out of office (assuming he doesn't get Congress to make him dictator-for-life or something), things will get better. Unless people are stupid enough to elect another Republican.

[TMA_1]

well democracy is imperfect and a nation using it will crumble. the American republic, which isnt a true democracy, will crumble sooner than others in my opinion.

[DukeLeto]

well democracy is imperfect and a nation using it will crumble.

So...you think Facism is better? Or Communism? What? ::)

[exatreide]

Facism is bad. but it has some advantages.......

a leader can get alot done. fast...but thats about it......

[Andrew]

what about totalarism? or republic? or the government in civ II where there are no unhappy citizens?

i think communism would be best if it worked.

[VigilVirus]

Communism can't work. It just can't, cause people can't be equal.

[sneezer3]

Ok this is a thread about YOUR opinions, so please I mean PLEASE this is not a thread to try to spam everything America does...I just want your opinions etc...

With war seeming inevitable and Americas Sept 11th acts since then, doesn't it seem the land of freedom is getting a little less free and taken over by more paranoia?

Also i assume you mean not a debate thread ;) so just post what ya think guys. if you wanna know what someone thinks then ask.

[Caid Ivik]

Communist haven't worked. Not only we are not same, we also want to see, we are finding still new and new differences. We must find new consenses. Democratical confederation of whole world, that's what will ensure peace. But it will take some time. Don't be so scarried by little limits in war time. Life isn't without barriers. There will be more and harder, if we won't stop enemies now.

[nemafakei]

Communism is a nice idea, but thoughrougly impractical.

Yes, it would be nice if we *all* could have *all* our 'rights' fulfilled, but therein lies the problem with liberalism - one person's rights coincide with others.

As 'democratic' systems stand, they are locked into near stasis due to political parties using spin and investors' money to maintain conditions under which their candidates will get elected. Hence, only superficiality gets done.

Only change is constant, and soon, the static form of government will lose the ability to control the population as it does, because it has completely lost touch, and cannot change itself.

The 'War on terror' might be a spark if Bush goes far enough. But I think a crisis a little later in time will be the last straw.

[Caid Ivik]

Utopical communism isn't nice. What will make you feeling of full and good life, when you was still only receiveing?

[Anathema]

You mean you want to contribute as wel as receive? That is the basis of communism. The problem with communism is that people generally prefer to receive then to do anything at all.

I think the western societies are the best place to live, but democracy isn't functioning as it ideally should. Everybody should have the same political opportunities, and though this is the case on paper, reality is different.

[Caid Ivik]

Not exactly. I don't mean only hand work. Communism is making them lazy at thinking. As they must think about state as only holy "brain", only, who knows what is good for them. Democracy isn't best possible, but best realistically usable. There are some better solutions of its problems (educational census?), but I don't think it's so bad.

[Anathema]

The basic idea of communism is that first a group of labourers lead the revolution and are then in charge and decide what's best for everybody. After the state reaches a phase of "developed socialism" there would be democracy.

That's why a communist revolution wouldn't work in a developped, democratic country, but would work in an oppressed, underdevelopped country (like Russia, or Cuba).

[Edric O]

Let me put it this way: The US is similar to ancient Rome. Carthage (USSR) has been defeated. Now it's time for the Roman Republic to end, and for the Empire to begin...

And we all know what the Empire was: de facto dictatorship, with a Senate just for show. That is where we're heading.

[Caid Ivik]

Don't forget that ancient Rome was only cultural place on the world, and there was no possibility of being wiped out from map by pressing one button...

The basic idea of communism is that first a group of labourers lead the revolution and are then in charge and decide what's best for everybody. After the state reaches a phase of "developed socialism" there would be democracy.

That's why a communist revolution wouldn't work in a developped, democratic country, but would work in an oppressed, underdevelopped country (like Russia, or Cuba).

Democracy? I don't think. There could be still only one party. Altough inside it should be a democracy, it still must be omnipotent in law. Even that "revolution" is sign of barbarian way to take over power. After it they must oppress intelligence which can be against laws of communism, disrupt anything what is against them. Then will come that demonic paradise - people are educated to think everything is done best for them, but they are de facto slaves.

[Anathema]

As long as everybody can run for a political position and so long everybody can vote I see no problem.

And ancient Rome wasn't the only cultural place in the world. Greece and Egypt were also pretty advanced, and there still were the Inca and Mayan societies in southern America.

[Caid Ivik]

Human is for more than just to "vote". We could vote even in communist era, but only the National Front coalition (composed by one party - guess which).

Egypt was in fall. Ptolemaios dynasty brought only wars. Same for Greece. When Sulla came, they were already in Roman hands also. When Octavianus declared himself the augustus, Egypt was their too.

[Anathema]

So? That doesn't mean they're not cultural, just weak. And Romans weren't exactly pacifists either.

In the Soviet union, there was only one candidate for each position. There can be multiple parties, that's what democracy is about. There are also communist parties in capitalist societies.

[Caid Ivik]

Not weak, self-destroying by civil wars. Romans brilliantly used it to enlarge their empire.

That's not true that there was only one candidate for everything. There were also opponents, specifical ways INSIDE the party. But it looked intact for proletariate. Communists in democratic countries are either socdems or too weak idealists. Or just those who hate USA.

[Edric O]

Communists in democratic countries are either socdems or too weak idealists. Or just those who hate USA.

That is ridiculous.

And how exactly do you say you know this, anyway?

[Anathema]

Of course there were multiple candidates for certain positions. But the party voted for those. Party leaders were chosen.

The civilians didn't get to vote in for example their own mayor, because the state appointed a single candidate.

[Caid Ivik]

Communists in democratic countries are either socdems or too weak idealists. Or just those who hate USA.

That is ridiculous.

And how exactly do you say you know this, anyway?

I've forgotten. In eastern Europe they are pre-'89 veterans voted by nostalgists. That's for Romania for example ;) But look at west. There are many socdem parties, many ruling, but they are realistic, not blindly seeking way to create that damned Orwell's land. Show me one powerful hardcore communistic party on west from former Curtain.