Do aliens exist

[Edric O]

We take two steps backwards for every step forward. The destroyers rule the world, and the healers are powerless. Evil is in charge.

[Caid Ivik]

What genocide? First, this term should be used only on humans. Second, assimilation is not a genocide. Altough many times it is same. But humans, in their core, are not evil. We were created by God, who defines what is "good" and what is "evil". How you can say that as christian? Evil in the world is that much people are turning away from God. Only thing Fallen from Heaven is Satan, but human? You are commiting heresy with such declaration!

[Acriku]

Well he is orthodox, as were the Puritans in the earliest of American times.

[Edric O]

No, people HAVE turned away from God.

Heresy? The Middle Ages are over, Caid Ivik. I don't know what God you pray to, but my God despises violence of any kind and killing for any purpose. As unclean sinful creatures, we have no divine "right" on anyone! There is no such thing as a divine right.

[Acriku]

I thought divine rights died with the kings who thought so?

[Edric O]

Apparently, Caid doesn't agree. He seems to think we have some "divine right" to enslave any aliens we meet. Ridiculous. ::)

Oh, and btw, the Puritans were Protestant, not Orthodox. There is a difference between "orthodox" (as in "conservative") and "Orthodox" (as in the Orthodox denomination).

[Acriku]

I've always used orthodox as an extreme religion group. Like how the Puritans were extreme in their beliefs, and founded laws upon them and even killed women and men for sinning, such as adultery.

[Edric O]

Err, you do realize that there is a denomination called Eastern Orthodoxy, right? You know, the one that holds the majority in Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Greece, Bulgaria, etc.

It has nothing to do with the puritans. It was the faith of the Byzantine Empire. Catholicism and Orthodoxy were separated (for stupid political reasons) back in 1054 AD.

The word "Orthodox" comes from Greek and it means "the right/just faith".

The word "Catholic" comes from Latin and means "universal".

Thus the Right Church and the Universal Church. Kinda amusing when you think about the titles they gave themselves. :)

[Acriku]

I only made the comparison to note that you are extreme in your beliefs.

[Edric O]

What would be the purpose of moderation? We must accept no compromises. Moderation is weakness. Compromise is decadence.

[Caid Ivik]

You are attacking me for "inhumanity of assimilation" and you are telling about moderation as weakness? Sorry about using so BANNED word as you all see about "heresy", but I don't know better word for it. You've attacked a core of christianity! Are you against "divine rights"? So, why we all eat meat, use animals as slaves or kill them for fun? About aliens, we must see their culture first. Before then, they are like animals for me. Of course that don't give us the right to annihilate them. Assimilation is not annihilation.

[Edric O]

What core value? Your divine right of genocide? I'm sorry, I don't remember ever reading that in the Bible.

We eat animals because God made us that way. It's in our biological nature. However, killing animals for fun is EVIL. And killing a sentient being for any purpose is, again, EVIL. And it is a terrible sin.

(by "sentient being" I mean a lifeform with human intelligence and mental abilities, and with souls like ours)

Moderation is indeed weakness. That is why I am not moderate. Our God is a God of Love. We must let ourselves be guided by Love. I am not moderate in my faith and my devotion to the Christian values such as kindness, mercy, brotherhood of all mankind, and LOVE.

[Acriku]

Love is a series of chemical/hormonal reactions, nothing more nothing less. Unless this being is comprised of a biological body with the required hormones and organs, I don't think He has love. He may show it, but that may just be a facade for us meekly humans.

[Edric O]

Love is a series of chemical/hormonal reactions, nothing more nothing less.

Wrong. What you are describing is sexual attraction, not love.

The love I am talking about is a spiritual state. But yes, I agree that since God isn't human, the word "love" might be inapropiate to describe Him. Still, love is the closest equivalent we have.

[lowzeewee]

I think so i mean based on tleilaxu n ix yes[LOL]

[Caid Ivik]

EdricO, read whole post before you want to answer! How many times I must tell you I DON'T WANT GENOCIDE!!! Even God tell us to kill only necessary, no more. Also it would make enviroment unstable. Anyway, if God loves us, how would he makes us evil? He defines "good". We are just under influence of other being, which carries opposite of "good". If those aliens would show us they have philosophy too, they are then LIKE US, equal beings and we can deal with them only in decalogical ways. But if they haven't it, they are animals.

[Edric O]

Even God tell us to kill only necessary, no more.

Which part of "Thou shall not kill" don't you understand?

Anyway, if God loves us, how would he makes us evil?

He didn't. He made us good, but we became evil. Have you even READ the Bible?

If those aliens would show us they have philosophy too, they are then LIKE US, equal beings and we can deal with them only in decalogical ways. But if they haven't it, they are animals. Posted by: lowzeewee

What gives YOU the right to judge them? Maybe they would consider US animals! Or mindless barbarians. Any alien life form would be so different from us that you would soon consider it "inferior" and start treating it as such. But maybe they are following God's will far better than we are. You have no right to judge beings you know nothing about.

[Acriku]

But edric, what proof do you have of this "spiritual" love? Sure you might "feel" it, but that would be using senses, in which we determine reality with, and they can be flawed, misdirected, misunderstood, and of course "exaggerated".

[Caid Ivik]

Even God tell us to kill only necessary, no more.

Which part of "Thou shall not kill" don't you understand?

Anyway, if God loves us, how would he makes us evil?

He didn't. He made us good, but we became evil. Have you even READ the Bible?

If those aliens would show us they have philosophy too, they are then LIKE US, equal beings and we can deal with them only in decalogical ways. But if they haven't it, they are animals. Posted by: lowzeewee

What gives YOU the right to judge them? Maybe they would consider US animals! Or mindless barbarians. Any alien life form would be so different from us that you would soon consider it "inferior" and start treating it as such. But maybe they are following God's will far better than we are. You have no right to judge beings you know nothing about.

Ah, you are starting to understand me :) . Your first quote - don't forget "Thou shalt not kill" is ment for humans. Second - I read it nearly whole, just lower prophets I have to read I'm on Baruch now. Anyway, prime sin is on christians cleaned by baptising. If you are then good or evil, it's individualistic. For third - I even don't know if they exist. If they do, and think about us as hostiles, then we would pay bad with good. We should help them solving their problems of superiority feeling. That will assimilate them to our, humanic culture. Understand? You might think it's impossible, but is possible existence of other inteligent lifeform in contactable range for us? There are many possible scenarios of relations between us and aliens - but first both mst exist and contact. Until then, all discussions are without sense.

[Caid Ivik]

But edric, what proof do you have of this "spiritual" love? Sure you might "feel" it, but that would be using senses, in which we determine reality with, and they can be flawed, misdirected, misunderstood, and of course "exaggerated".

Proof of love? Bah, where do you live, Acriku, reading this I'm starting to believe EdricO about human vileness. Human love in two ways. One is based on sexual attraction, which you magnificiently explained. Lack of second type is many times the reason, why older adults divorce. It is feeling causing powerful respect and will of helping for other - loved - person. Also not only person can be loved. You can love your country, and it isn't caused by your hormones :)

[Acriku]

Ah but how do we know? We don't have any proof of it. It's like there is no proof of the unconscious. We think it is there, but there is no valid proof it is there yet.

[Edric O]

Acriku, there is also no proof that reality is, in fact, real. We could all be living in a dream for all we know.

There are some things you must accept based on common sense, else you would go insane. How do you know you're not the only person alive, and we are all just elaborate simulations meant to deceive you?

Love is there. We feel it (or at least some of us do). It is intangible, but so are most spiritual things.

[Acriku]

Edric, there is a whole sh*tload of proof for reality, and not even one piece of scientific evidence for spiritual love. Sure there are chemical responses, but that is a different love. Or perhaps people are confusing the two as different, and they are one and the same? Interesting. For sake of argument, we must accept the validity of our senses, or we will get nowhere. With that in mind, nothing can prove spiritual love.

I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, there is simply no proof for it. Just like the unconscious. I believe an unconscious exists, but there is no proof for it in scientific terms.

Love is there. We feel it (or at least some of us do). It is intangible, but so are most spiritual things.

How do we feel it? We feel suddenly happy, nothing else matters, a tingly feeling goes up the spine, a smile stretches across your face, self-sacrifice for this person becomes the only thing to do, and your life revolves this person. That's what I would say love is. And all of that could be described as chemical reactions, hormonal discharges, etc. The fact that we feel it is just explained with hormonal activities. The hormones make us feel we can feel it.

[Edric O]

And all of that could be described as chemical reactions, hormonal discharges, etc. The fact that we feel it is just explained with hormonal activities. The hormones make us feel we can feel it.

Does that include love for one's country? Love for God? Love for a life-long friend? I think not.

You don't seem to understand that I am NOT talking about sexual love. That is what you are describing.

For sake of argument, we must accept the validity of our senses, or we will get nowhere.

Exactly. And my senses tell me that spiritual love exists, because I can feel it. Maybe you never felt it, so you don't know what I'm talking about. But it is there. It is real. And hormones have nothing to do with it.

Oh, and notice that all the proof for reality comes from inside it. There is no way to prove we aren't living in a dream. (and there is also no way to prove we ARE living in a dream)

[Acriku]

Ok, so you are talking about that kind of love. It is in the mind. It can't be proven. Psychology is a soft science, and we haven't gone far into the cognitive/psychoanalytic area. So if you can prove to me that this exists, then go ahead. If not, then all you can say is "you feel it".