KYOTO = BULLSHITO

[pointybum]

The average family in my country runs three cars - what an enormous expense. Why? It's because the transport system is slow on the uptake of provinding a reasonably safe and reliable surface.

If money was the total factor people would take the public transport, which in turn would reduce congestion, which would reduce co2 build up on idle tickover, thus less harmful to the environment.

The balance is wrong in my country, as it is with many countries. It is a global issue for which each have a different priority to protecting the environment.

My two cars are modern, conform to the strictest british standards to co2 emmissions, and I can only drive one car at a time.

[Terror]

still, it is not necessary to have 2 cars. anyway. yes in places where there isn't a grocery store around every corner cars are important. But cars should be able to drive on solar cells. Expensive, probably not as fast as normal cars but that will improve. They are completely pollution free though, and that's what we need.

Ofcourse by far, not all polution comes from cars.

[VigilVirus]

Yes, other pollution comes from factories, which are already becoming cleaner.

[Anathema]

This reminds me of a quote from a book I'm reading, "The discovery of Heaven" by Harry Mulisch.

But Lucifer knows, that they would rather have heaven and earth perish then get rid of their car.

This was from a conversation between two angels.

But I agree we should get rid of cars, or at least of petrol cars. They cause to much trouble, even more so in the long term. Oil recources will one time deplete anyway.

[exatreide]

Also

The Danish colony of Iceland has started a project, to convert all vehicles, and boats to hydrogen fuel cells withen 10 years.

[Acriku]

Make a huge network of subways, and have a huge air-sucker to suck in and clean all the pollution. It's sucked so powerfully the subways are not polluted themselves, and the above is free of car accidents, pollution, and noise :) Hey I can live in my own world.

[DjCiD]

hydrogen fuel cells? you mean one day I can power my boat by blowing the motor?

[pointybum]

still, it is not necessary to have 2 cars. anyway. yes in places where there isn't a grocery store around every corner cars are important. But cars should be able to drive on solar cells. Expensive, probably not as fast as normal cars but that will improve. They are completely pollution free though, and that's what we need.

Ofcourse by far, not all polution comes from cars.

lmao Is it necessary to me to have two cars? Thats like saying I must only have one child because britain is becoming over-crowded. Get real, there is moderation - I'd understand your comment if I said I have 5 cars for everyday use, that is something else. Please, dont try to sensationalise 1 extra car as being immoral.

[Acriku]

I have (parents rather) two cars because they NEED to get to work early and can't carpool, as their workplaces are separate directions.

[Anathema]

My mother uses the car to go to work, and my dad uses a new dutch invention...it's called bus ::)

[Acriku]

Buses have schedules, those schedules do not fit mine or my parents'. If buses had better schedules that go into 5 a.m. around my house then my dad or mom would probably go there, but then again they work hard as hell and deserve to not have every aspect of their lives inconvenient just to save a few liters of gas in the air. The fact is, you yourself going to the bus stop (probably a few blocks away, as mine is) just to wait another hour picking people up, dropping them off, finally getting to the destination, and then do that everyday, just to save a little tiny .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the pollution in the air is useless, especially if no one else does it.

[Anathema]

Bus driving is a very clean method of transportation. Trains aren't, surprisingly, because a lot of power is lost between the power plant and the train.

Bus schedules here are pretty good. They stop by every half hour.

[Acriku]

It is very inconvenient for my parents (my dad has bad ankles and my mom has bad knees) to walk to the bus probably 1/4 a mile away. If sacrificing the functionality of the ankles/knees for no better pollution is good, then I want to be bad.

[Anathema]

Using a bus is way cleaner then driving a car. If public transport was improved to support more users, and it would be more used, pollution would drop considerably.

My dad has to use the bus because his eyes aren't good enough to be relied on for driving.

[Acriku]

I'm not saying the bus is not cleaner, I'm saying it is better to drive two cars for my parents because of their situation.

[GhostHunter]

Thats gonna fly with the militarys of the world and think, no cars but ther'll still be facs emiteing smoke?

[Acriku]

facs?

[DjCiD]

facs = factories

dont you play Emp? :P ;D j/k

[Acriku]

Heh hell no. But anyways, we still always have factories until we find a method that produces at or above the productivity of the country/company.

[Navaros]

I have to take public transportation every day and I hate hate hate hate HATE it! I hate being overcrowded by dirty slobs who have no etiquette whatsoever and always do things that piss me off like putting their feet up near where I am sitting (Soon I am gonna default to fisticuffs, immediately, every time that happens - that's how sick to death I am of it) and just today there was this dumb airhead imbecile sitting next to me on the subway, who almost marked my expensive coat and hat with her reckless use of a highlighter as she sat beside me. It missed me by only a couple of inches. I woulda flipped out if it had actually touched me. Public transportation should be illegal.

People don't need to work in places that are not within walking distance. They can find jobs closer to where they live. And people who live in the country who don't wanna slaughter all their meals themselves can always move to the city.

Cars are *not* necessary for survival.

The kicker is that on several occasions people have invented viable cars which do NOT use gasoline, but the Big Oil Companies paid those inventors billions of dollars each to buy-them-out. The technology to get rid of cars that destroy the air we need to breathe ALREADY EXISTS! It has existed for YEARS.

The common man needs to stand up against this insanity and support a complete disarmament of ALL cars that pollute the air.

[Razorox]

What a joke! Like *that's* gonna end pollution or increase the average person's lifespan by even a year! Utter crap!

If they REALLY wanted to end pollution and stop toxins from poisoning the air we breathe the solution is simple:

BAN *ALL* VEHICLES WHICH EMIT TOXINS INTO THE AIR!!! MAKE THEM ILLEGAL! NO EXCEPTIONS!

This is simply unfathomably unrealistic, and is a violation of the U.S. and Canadian constitutions, to name a couple.

Saddam is being forced to disarm?! How about disarming the perfectly-legal deathtraps known as gasoline-using cars???!!!

Here is what EVERYTHING that would happen if all toxin-producing cars were declared illegal:

1. The Big Oil Companies would go out of business. Boo-Hoo!!!!

That means tens of thousands of people out of jobs, in poverty...it isn't a simple "boo-hoo"

2. The intake of toxic air by every human being would be reduced by 100 000 MILLION PERCENT over the course of his life time and people would start living to be 800 or 900 yrs old just like they did back in Biblical times.

100 000 000 000 000% ::) A clear exaggeration. People living to be 800-900 years old again? You obviously don't know much about history do you.

3. Within 6 months, every car-making company in the universe would have unleashed tons of new cars that do not use gasoline emit ZERO toxins, ever!

Good point, I like that concept

4. No one would EVER HAVE TO PAY FOR GAS or *ANY* other type of fuel ever again! You could go anywhere and do anything without ever having to be extorted by wasting money to fuel up your car with poison that is killing you just to make the Big Oil Companies more rich.

another good point. Stop getting me over enthusiastic though! (Would save about 50 bucks a week! woot woot)

It makes me sick when I see on the news people supporting Kyoto like it's actually gonna make the tiniest iota of difference at all.

Actually it will...

Forget about disarming foreign leaders.

DISARM POISONING OUR AIR, WATER, FOOD, AND PLANET! There must be no exscuses, and *NO* exceptions!

I wish it were that simple too nav...

Although I do not agree with you on all points, I believe you have *finally* brought up a good, intelligent, controversial discussion topic. Good for you. Two thumbs up. :)

[Razorox]

and just today there was this dumb airhead imbecile sitting next to me on the subway, who almost marked my expensive coat and hat with her reckless use of a highlighter as she sat beside me. It missed me by only a couple of inches. I woulda flipped out if it had actually touched me. Public transportation should be illegal.

Argh, and just when I thought you were becoming somewhat less of an arrogant, self-righteous fool ::) It is people like you who make this world a sickening place to live in.

"omg she almost touched me with a hiliter" --> oh grow up, and suck it up wuss.

"public transportation should be illegal" --> you just don't get it do you...

[Acriku]

I'd be pissed off if some lady was wreckless with her hilighter and got on me (especially if I paid a lot for my clothes). Navaros, my dad has a job he's been working at for over 20 years, so you are saying to just quit and work in a totally different field and probably lesser pay? Hell no my friend.

[SurlyPIG]

Let's consider our facts here:

1) The kyoto accord focuses ONLY on greenhouse gases, as in gases that are theorized to be high absorbers of infrared radiant energy.

2) The two biggest greenhouse gases are carbon dioxide and methane.

3) Scientists know that the Earth is warming.

4) Scientists directly know that it is sun cycles causing the Earth to warm and cool (we're still comeing out of our last ice age)

5) Scientists do not know and cannot possibly prove that the greenhouse gas THEORY (and I use the term loosely) accelorates global warming. They can hypothesize, and make assumptions, but unfortuneately we just don't know. Greenhouse gases may or may not effect climate trends.

Believe it or not, you're right - the Kyoto isn't going to do crap. But not for the reasons you stated, that's for sure...It seems to me like you're just going off on a tanjent and don't really have all the info you need...

About the cars thing, the "BIG WHOOP" you speak of is pretty damn big to me. If gasoline cars are outlawed, my dad, who's a chemical engineer working as a consultant in marketing for the third-largest energy (oil & nat gas mostly) company in the world, would lose his job and my family would lose our primary source of income. We'd have to sell 2 of our 3 cars, sell our house, and buy something smaller, cheaper, in a worse neighbourhood that's closer to the inner city. I'd have to switch schools as a result, and the school I switch to would amost undoubtedly be worse. Since my parents are smart with their money and have saved, my sister and I can always count on a great post-secondary, but that won't be the case all around. Once the economy had recovered to a degree we would move to wherever my dad could find work. I'd probably have to hold at leat a part-time job all year, if I could which is unlikely because the economy will be in such a rut. Big whoop? Yeah. It is. Millions and millions losing their jobs is a pretty big whoop.

You say we should ban public transportation AND cars? Is there something wrong with you? You've just eliminated the only two effective and reliable ways of transporting yourself. Very, VERY few people live within walking distance of their jobs. I could bike places I guess but what happens during the 8 months of the year when there's snow on the ground?

Transit in my city is ok until winter hits. The buses either don't show up or show up almost an hour late. Even from that, driving like 15-20 km takes them AGES, because they're big, giant hogs. The LRT train, surprisingly, isn't as effected.

Someone said that buses are efficient??? They're hogs! They're, big, unmanouverable, pigs! They puff out worse than several cars put together! Trains are, by FAR, more effective. They're WAY more reliable, much more timely, a lot faster, and use electricity, which, no matter how it is obtained, is MUCH less polluting than several buses.

[Terror]

still trains are pretty good, they may use more energy than busses or trucks or whatsoever. But they can transport much much much much MUCH more than a truck or bus.