Evolution and Creation

Edric O · October 23, 2002

Pointybum, not everyone is like you. Obviously YOU can live without religion (otherwise you wouldn't be an atheist...). But not everyone can. Especially people living miserable lives with no hope of ever getting better.

I think it would be wrong to say that if a christian did kill then they werent a true christian, they didnt committ to their faith properly etc.

How can someone who completely ignores the basic laws of Christianity be called a true Christian? I'm not talking about hazy phrases that can be interpreted in different ways. I'm talking about a direct, obvious order from God. Anyone who ignores it is not a Christian.

Repoman:

all you have to do to get a person to believe in what you say is to create the right environment for it. I believe it is very difficult for someone to completely change his belief system but not impossible. Therefore i cannot give up trying to create that environment for people.

That is called manipulation. You are trying to manipulate people into believing what YOU WANT them to believe! >:(

You are not an advocate for multiculturlism. You show extreme intolerance for religion. You said it yourself that you hate it!

Acriku, if I didn't think Christianity is the better religion then how could I be a christian?

You never mentioned the other instincts you were taking out. If violence is one of them, then your world would indeed be a peaceful one. But the lack of religion wouldn't have anything to do with it!

It's like if I removed Pepsi and the human instinct for violence at the same time, and then claimed that a world without Pepsi is a world without violence! Ridiculous.

Anathema · October 23, 2002

I do always get kinda agressive after drinking Pepsi Max ;D.

Anyway, manipulation = bad. Everybody needs to figure out what he should believe. As strange as it may sound, I haven't made up my mind either.

Acriku · October 23, 2002

Well that is definitely offensive, even to me - to the little Jewish boy inside of me. But oh well, can't complain - I think you are going nowhere :)

And I don't think you understood my post. Read it again, you might get my gist.

Edric O · October 23, 2002

Acriku, christians and jews have the same God. Objectively speaking, Christianity is a (rather large) jewish sect. :)

And, well, if I didn't understand your post, then please explain it again...

Anathema · October 23, 2002

You know, Jesus' arrival was great for christian people, but there's also a sad side- it divided the jewish people. Really sad acutally.

Edric O · October 23, 2002

That wasn't Jesus's fault, though. It was the people who divided themselves, even though they could have easily lived in peace with each other.

And Jesus foresaw it. He prophecised that His arrival would cause some unrest.

pointybum · October 23, 2002

[quote author=Acriku

Acriku · October 23, 2002

You have a God with a son. That's the major difference :)

Aye, sad it is that people alike divided from one man.

Pointy, yes field triiiiip! :) It would solve a lot of problems, but I don't think proving religion wrong would be a good thing in this world ....

Edric O · October 23, 2002

That means all religion - it sounds very zombiefied but I am trying to get behind the part before religion shaped mankind. A time machine trip, if you like. What would the world be like then?

That is an impossible question. The effects of religion on history are too many to count, and extremely complex. Religion is inseparable from history.

Without religion, civilization would be immensely different from what we see today. It is impossible to predict what it would be like. Too many factors are involved.

Sneakgab · October 23, 2002

The problem with the evelution theory is simply: where did it all begin?

People talk about the positive/ anti matter theory to bring in a very beggining but where did that matter come from?

According to science, nothing can simply be created or destroyed... so science basically proves that the current evelution theory is incorrect... perhaps science will one day explain the origin of the universe but that day has not come yet...

I mean of course thing's evolved, but where did Earth come from? some say that it was just asteroids in space smacking each other and that sort of thing... but where did the asteroids come from? some say from certain nebulae. But where did the nebulae come from? some say they're gasses being pulled around by gravity (sorry forgot this step:D). But where did the gasses come from or the gravitational pull?. some say the first thing came from the matter/anti matter and an imbalance which caused the matter, simply put, to beat the anti matter

But where did the matter come from?

Anathema · October 23, 2002

Nebulas are created when a sun explodes.

Before the big bang, all matter and energy were focused in one point. The density and temperature were practicly infinite. There was no real time or real dimensions, so in fact nothing exploded.

oooooooooh paradox 8).

emprworm · October 23, 2002

Repoman, since you last response to me was dignified and reasonable, I will once again open dialoge with you.

The problem that you have is that you would argue the point no matter how comprehensive the evidence in front of you as unfortantly you would have to admit that everything that you have belived in has been a lie and you fell for it hook line and sinker.

What "comprehensive evidence" are you referring to and of what? If you are going to say cross-special evolution is an empirical fact, then you bought the deception, not me.

What frustrates me is that you say that you have proven mathematically and emprically subjects that you have quite clearly not.Do you know the difference between evidence and opinion??? You have them clearly confused. Religion is based on opinion and Evoultion is based on fact.

Yes I did prove it empirically and mathematically. Here let me show you:

Given Volume of a Vessel:

150 Meters x 25 Meters 15 Meters = total volume 56,250 cubic meters. total amount of animals needed to be on the the vessel = appx 17500 x 2 (two of each land species) = approximately 35000

Average size of an earth land animal = about the size of a sheep

result = not even 75% of the space capacity of said vessel would be needed to hold the animals

Could a ship given the above dimensions hold 2 of every land species on earth on board?

Answer: Yes, empirically proven.

Do you know what emprical means?? It means results based on experiments. Mathematically is is possible to build a Arc that big but noone is arguing that point. What experiments were carried out to get your emprical evidence.

the ark would have been a bit smaller than the titanic. Many ships are that size, they exist now and are observable. Scientific records list the number of land species on earth, plenty of room to fit them all on one ship. (i.e you would have only 2 dogs not 2 of each kind of dog- we are talking species here)

"I also showed that it is universally recognized amongst the scientific community that there was once a world-wide flood."
These are child's arguments mate. Time and time again i have brought up the inconsistancies within your arguments yet you ignore and continue on as if they were never pointed out.

LOL. Are you denying here before everyone in this room that the universal scientific community does not think there was once a world-wide flood? (by universal I mean both evolutionary and creationist- not every single person, but the overwhelming majority in both camps) I want a yes or no here before I proceed.

Do you know how hard it is to have a therory that contradicts everything that is taught in the world and yet still succeed??? Evolution did this and now is taught in schools because it is proven whereas before this the creationist therory was taught.

cross-special evolution has zero...count em zero... pieces of evidence to back it up. Or are you going to name some and perhaps get a nobel prize? Just a bunch of hodge podge. In fact, the history of evolutionary science is wraught with fraud and deception. Go back in this thread and look at one example I gave of the flying turkey dinosaur- fraud that was propogated by national geographic just 2 years ago. Total embarrassment. That is how DESPERATE evolutionists are to get their hands on real evidence, because they HAVE NONE. Desperation is never a sign that you have plenty, but a sign that you have little. No branch of science today is more desperate for evidence then evolution.

Or are you going to start naming this so-called evidence?

Evolution is fact. It is not a therory! It is proven!How much evidence do you need to see before you believe it??

uh...lets go with just one piece of solid evidence for starters.

How many holes in religion need to be pointed out before you see it for the fabrication that it is.

did you point one out? I noticed a lot of generalized complaining, but no specific evidence or counterevidence.

Your attempt to dodge me on this thread will only expose your lack of evidence with you argument.

i dodge poorly constructed arguments that lack evidence or support for their claims. Not because I am unable to respond, but because I dont like wasting my time. No offense mate.

TMA_1 · October 23, 2002

I am glad you were impossibly there during the big bang earthnuker.lol watch the things you say. The big bang theory is constantly changing ideas. In fact there are many ideas of how it "happened".

Anathema · October 23, 2002

Dude, take a break. You don't always refer to your God as "our God that supposedly exists" do you? Of course nobody knows how or if the big bang happened.

Acriku · October 23, 2002

Sneak, science does not say nothing can be created or destroyed. Maybe energy, but certainly not nothing. Also, and this isn't my argument but a ponder, why can't anything just pop into existence, come out of nowhere? We don't know the rules of the universe, only the rules that apply to earth. Now my argument is, just because we don't have the understanding or the proof yet, does not mean it is wrong. We are very primitive in the ways of knowledge of our surroundings, hell we don't know about more than half of our own world. We couldn't understand why apples fell until Newton, and now we are just looking for a Newton of evolution.

And emprworm, approximating data doesn't prove it fully. That's where you err my friend. And please state where it says in the bible it is that many meters, you said it before but I forgot.

And empr, they may agree on a worldwide flood, but it is when is where they disagree on. When noah was around? Or when dinos roamed the earth? Or when they died? etc.

TMA_1 · October 23, 2002

yeah but I have faith in what I believe. science uses imperical evidance. you are out of line earthnuker.

Anathema · October 23, 2002

Hell, I don't know how it happened. Before the big bang there was nothing exept a single point. There was no universe, so the big bang wasn't tied to the laws of this universe.

Acriku · October 23, 2002

Or perhaps before the big bang there was alas another universe expanding...

TMA_1 · October 23, 2002

or prehaps your opinions on it dont give any evidance behind the problem.lol The big bang just turned the universe's energy into matter. All matter is, is energy. Simple as that. Even then science cant prove that. its all based on faith and good guesses.

Acriku · October 23, 2002

Oh but it's fun wondering how the universe began...

Anathema · October 23, 2002

E=mc2

energy = mass X lightspeed X lightspeed

Einstein was the first to say matter is composed of energy (or at least, that I know of).

emprworm · October 23, 2002

why can't anything just pop into existence, come out of nowhere? We don't know the rules of the universe, only the rules that apply to earth.

lol. this is "science?" har har. If you are going to accept this, then you have absolutely no scientific basis upon which to discredit any and all superstitious claim ever given.

what is more 'scientific' claim?:

Water turns to wine (the physical properties of already existing matter change)

A universe of 1 x 10 ^ 70 KG just pops into existence via ex-nihlo from nothing (matter that was not pre-existing suddenly exists).

And a 'scientist' is going to call me superstitious for believing the former?

Lol!!

I think i know who the superstitious one is

Acriku · October 23, 2002

I was pondering you idiot. Pondering requires and applies imagination.

TMA_1 · October 23, 2002

actually a scientist by the name of Lebroigh came up with the idea that matter is energy and energy is matter.

emprworm · October 23, 2002

well, Acriku

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