Iraq

[emprworm]

I'm not as sure about Iraq Earthnuker as I am afghanistan. I know toppling afghanistan was good. I just wish it happened years earlier.

As far as Sadam: I am open to giving him ONE LAST CHANCE for inspections. I am not for unilaterally striking him. I say he gets one last shot, INCLUDING PALACE inspections. The inspections must be very hardline and thourough. unfettered access. and then if he fails, we strike. And I dont say "we" as in the US, I refer to the UN.

however, if we strike pre-emptively, it wont bother me much. he's already broken enough international laws to justify it.

[Anathema]

I'm also in favor of disposing Sadam- I just don't think we should barge in Iraq just like that. The Iraqi soldiers would use civilians as human shields, or even deliberatly kill civilians to blame the US. Bush had better thought this thing out.

[emprworm]

i wish he could just be taken out. i hate killing iraqi citizens. having said that, however, if you look at afghanistan, hardly anyone resisted us. very few non-taliban casualties

i hope for the same with iraq.

[Anathema]

Sadam is more cunning then the taliban, and more insane.

[Edric O]

And he has been in power for WAY longer than the taliban.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

And the people in Iraq live in fear.

[ordos45]

Zamboe, if you want to reduce this to flinging insults about a nation's history, I will point out something about Argentina.

After the Second World War, most of the Nazi War Criminals who escaped fled to Argentina.

But I'm not judging your country by that, so why do you judge mine by one war?

[emprworm]

After the Second World War, most of the Nazi War Criminals who escaped fled to Argentina.

i didnt know that. learn something new every day.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

And what has Nazi's to do with Iraq? Saddam is not hitler.

So can we please go back to the point of this thread.

:-

[SurlyPIG]

:O

Wow. Though it's a rarity, I absolutely, unconditionally and totally agree with emprworm 100%.

Zam, where does your knowledge come from? You posted no evidence, no studies, no stats, no commentary, yet you expect us to. You want me to "read between the lines", well, I do. But there is such a thing as seeing things that are not there. Making a mountain out of an anthill if you will. Your interpretation is completely speculated.

You say that the oil in the US is unregulated. I say, BS. The oil market was the FIRST thing that was regulated, back in the day of Rockafeller's oil trust. That's where the term anti-trust comes from. The US is a free market economy, and as such major businesses can make major influences. But the price of oil is not set by one person or one company. It is set by the whole supply/demand principle. That's basic economics.

Call me out of line if you want, but IMO what you said was out of line. I hadn't even commented on Israel, Iran, Jordan, or anywhere else in the middle-east and you come out with "Get some education on these countries". Like I said. Characteristic of nav. I'm not saying your as bad as him, I'm saying it's something he does. Perhaps that will serve as a wake-up call.

Nema, I'm not used to hearing such obscenely misdirected things from you...I agree with emp on this one. If not for 9/11, then the attack on the taliban would have been called an invasion by the UN and just about every other country.

It's frustrating to see such passionately misinformed anti-war protesting against the possible campaign on Iraq. I agree, war is BAD. It's terrible. But in this case, isn't it better than the alternative? If something isn't done now, Hussaine will continue to kill his people until he IS powerful enough to make any attack against him illogically dangerous (ie until he has enough nukes to blow up the world)

Perhaps someone should ask gob to post his 2m sattellite spread of the nuclear ractor in the Iraqi desert. Maybe then people might agree that it means trouble.

I read someone mentioned the Kyoto accord, saying that all G8 nations have signed on except the US. That's false. I could be wrong, but last time I checked, Japan was on the fence. Canada hasn't signed on either. Our senile P.M. who no longer has public support is desperate to leave a legacy so he's buying into every left-winged idea he can get his hands on, Kyoto included. He said he'd sign Kyoto on Canada's behalf, WITHOUT EVEN CONSULTING HIS OWN MINISTERS. Oy!

The Kyoto accord is the most inompetantly designed piece of international legislation that this generation has ever seen. It'll do this:

1) Slow down the economies of the major western countries, who can no longer use, refine and produce oil, etc.

2) Force businesses in these countries to relocate their operations to developing countries.

It won't do this:

1) REDUCE GREENHOUSE EMMISSIONS.

Shocking, but it won't. Since the big manufacturing and refining companies will simply move to other countries, where there AREN'T regulations, greenhouse emmissions will most likely grow. This isn't speculation, my dad told me all about how dumb the Kyoto accord is over time. The company he works for is effected by the Accord already. Fearing it'll hurt them, they've completely stopped an oil development project in northern Alberta, Canada (Canada has not signed on yet but most likely will if the P.M. doesn't grow up). Instead, they're channeling their resources into opening up a new project in Venezuala.

BESIDES ALL THIS, there is no unrefutable scientific evidence that global warming even exists. After 1940 until the 70s, the world was cooling, and there was a global cooling theory that was making the world uneasy (since there IS geological proof of an ice-age). Studies have shown that overall trends in the Earth's average temperature is completely dependant on sun activity. It is possible that the warming caused by the sun (remember, we are still coming out of an iceage here) is accelerated by greenhouse gases, but that hasn't been proven. Despite all this, I think Kyoto was a good idea. Just a very, very, very bad way of executing that idea.

Back on topic, like emp says nobody "needs" Iraq's oil. Because oil is a non-renewable resource, people seem to think that it's going to run out soon. I wish I could post a link or something, but I read a newspaper that said we had used up 85% of the Earths oil and that there would be no oil at all in 20 years. Oh, BTW, the article was written in 1925. :D

Everybody's up in arms about Bush's intenions and what-not, and I say, nobody really knows. He hasn't mentioned oil once, and I'm inclined to believe that it IS part of their campaign on terror. Remember what I said about seeing things that aren't there? Besides, nobody can truly tell his intentions with 100% certainty. What really matters is, what will the product of the war be? Deaths? Yes. I think it'll be much heavier than Afganistan for both sides, and for civillians, simply because of the nature of the hold the Hussaine government has on the Iraqi people.

If you want an example of this search for a post called "Iraqi embassy in Germany attacked" and look at the two sides of how the event was reported. This goes beyond propaganda. That's an outright lie...Hussaine puts an image of himself on practically every street corner. Those who protest him mysteriously disappear.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Politics always tries to cover up their intentions, would it be very weird if Bush is going to say this?

" Conquer them all! We shall have the oil in the name of god! We will reign supreme with our powerful military forces. "

Sounds a bit hitlerlike.

Talking about hitler, the euro somehow reminds me of his words.

" One nation, same currency , one language, one ruler. "

The economy of europe is messed up since the euro arived, fact is, people didn't even vote for the currency type.

[ordos45]

And what has Nazi's to do with Iraq? Saddam is not hitler.

So can we please go back to the point of this thread.

:-

I was on topic actually. He was aiming a low blow at the US for the actions of one war, I was aiming the actions of his country directly after a war considered to be the greatest evil of the last century.

Saddam and Hitler are similiar. The mass murder of their own citizens, the invasion of other countries, the use of a secret police force, the manufacture of weapons of mass destruction, etc.

Nema, I'm not used to hearing such obscenely misdirected things from you...I agree with emp on this one. If not for 9/11, then the attack on the taliban would have been called an invasion by the UN and just about every other country.

I agree as well. If not for the fact the Taliban was hiding those involved in planning 9/11 the UN would have considered it an invasion of a sovereign nation.

Saddam has been blatantly defying UN resolutions, kicked out UN weapons inspectors, smuggling oil for cash for his WMD programs, etc. This is the sort of thing the UN is supposed to prevent, but seeing as the United Nations has become a decadent relic of the past which serves little purpose but a figure head, anyone can get away with anything without fear of the UN. The UN is a house divided, and a house divided cannot stand.

(Before you attribute that 'house divided' thing to an American President, named Abraham Lincoln, think back further in history, it's from the Bible. So you can't accuse that quote of being American propaganda in origin.)

[Sardauker-Kirov]

He is almost a hitler...... Although, Saddam doesn't have a brain. :)

And yes, it would be a great danger to the world if a power hungry president like Saddam, who thinks he can take on the world, gets the ability to create nuclear weapons.

If he loses the war against a country, the President will happily push the red button and send the world to hell, despite the fact he will be blown away too by the other countries nukes.

[ordos45]

If he loses the war against a country, the President will happily push the red button and send the world to hell, despite the fact he will be blown away too by the other countries nukes.

Most likely you are right, nuclear weapons are always a last resort.

[Acriku]

I don't the President would have the balls to "push the red button". And if he lost the war (cough bullshit cough) he would go through other means, nuclear missiles are the very last resort, (enter spotlight) when there are no other choices, when evil has finally fought back good and just, when deaths hath scorn the very grounds we hope to free, when every attempt to silence the screams of Saddam's rule has been utterly triumphed over, it is then that the president thinks of considering the red button.

[emprworm]

Ace, from what I have read about your statements regarding oil, I consider you a very credible source. Your knowledge of it is beyond mine, you sure seem to know a lot about oil markets.

[Anathema]

ACE, as far as I'm aware America is the only country that hasn't signed the Kyoto treaty (Japan initially didn't, but they did later). So everybody accepts the economical setback for to reduce Co2 output, EXCEPT AMERICA. While America contributes more to Co2 output then ANY other country. Bush only refused to sign that treaty so he wouldn't make his rich ass friends upset.

[Devastator_Mech]

you guys are all brainwashed by your pompus media. We have NEVER, i repeat NEVER needed Iraq's oil.

If you really think your right, think again.

Your dad is probably using Iraq's oil.

[emprworm]

If you really think your right, think again.

Your dad is probably using Iraq's oil.

Ok. *thinks about it again*

We have NEVER, i repeat NEVER needed Iraq's oil.

[Devastator_Mech]

Indeed? Why are the petrol price's rising dramatically early in this month?

Go put your brain down your @$$ and think again, I don't want to laugh my @$$ off.

[Usul]

Australia didn't sign the Kyoto treaty either.

[Devastator_Mech]

Whats Kyoto Treaty? Would you please explain.

[emprworm]

Indeed? Why are the petrol price's rising dramatically early in this month?

uh, Oh! I know! Hussein is mad at the US, so he is raising his prices on his oil. Meanwhile the US is begging on their knees:

"Please Hussein! O please! We are so sorry. We didnt mean to threaten you. O please let us buy your precious oil again. We will be good this time."

I don't want to laugh my @$$ off.

lol. I alreay am. :D :D :D

[Usul]

If a country signs it they have to reduce there CO2 emissions down. I can't remeber what to though. America is the only largely poluting country not to have signed it because they didn't want to reduce there ecconomy.

[Devastator_Mech]

Hey emprworm, have anyone told you that you might seem smarter if your in silence?

Because thats what I'm going to tell you, you might seem smarter if your in silence.

I really need to hold my @$$ now to prevent it from going anywhere.