Iraq

[Anathema]

The Netherlands, like many other countries, received a lot of financial aid- I am gratefull for that, because our countries wouldn't have been able to build up again without the US Marshal aid, but it wasn't out of kindness- the US simply feared that if Europe would stay poor and undeveloped the people would become communists- and they couldn't let that happen.

[SurlyPIG]

Because they don't just want to conquer the land, but also the people.

I think the main motive behind this attack isn't oil, but I don't think it is pity for the Iraqi people either. I believe the following are Bush' motives:

-He wants to be remembered as more then "just another president"

-He's pissed that any country could dare not to do as he says

-Iraq is in fact already in conflict with the US, and Bush intends to finish the job

-Bush wants to uphold the US reputation as the worlds policeman.

Bush is nowhere near the end of his term in office. And in the next election, as much as I hate to say it, I think he WILL be re-elected, so this isn't some desperate attempt to make a legacy for himself.

Second point, if you are referring to the "Let weapon inspectors in" and the "Our demands are this", then that is not the basis of the war. That is a prequel to the declaration of war against Iraq. They are trying the diplomatic means, and when the diplomatic means inevitably fail, (C'mon this is Hussiane we're talking about here) they begin the war. They are doing the UN inspector so they can't be accused of not trying the peaceful path.

The gulf war ended a while ago. He isn't trying to "finish the job" as you put it. If you are referring to shaky relations between the nations, well DUH! I mean he's a murderous, propaganda-using dictator. They don't coexist well with democratic capitalists. It's like cats and dogs.

LOL, the US doesn't WANT to be the world's police force. They are stuck with the task. Believe me if they didn't help out the nations being stomped, the entire world would be up in arms at them for not ending the wars even if they have the means to do so.

Nema, trade helps the little guys too. Trade gets them money, which they can use to jump-start their new political system and their economy. After WW2 Japan was a wreck, and the US was powerful. Yeah the trade was good for the US, but the trade got Japan back on it's feet and now they're one of the greatest powers in Asia (an by powers I don't mean in the military sense).

The Netherlands, like many other countries, received a lot of financial aid- I am gratefull for that, because our countries wouldn't have been able to build up again without the US Marshal aid, but it wasn't out of kindness- the US simply feared that if Europe would stay poor and undeveloped the people would become communists- and they couldn't let that happen.

All I'm going to say to that is LOL. Shame on the US for not letting Euorpe be taken over by dictators!

Pfft, the US doesn't fear communism, it beats it - whether it's economically or with the military. It isn't a coincidence that the richest and most powerfucl countries in the world are democratic capitalist-based systems. Mixed economies are fine too, but don't you see ANY problem with placing all power in the hands of a few?

[nemafakei]

"I mean he's a murderous, propaganda-using dictator"

Who? (Both have too much power; both use propaganda; but only one is condemned for approving killing.)

"Nema, trade helps the little guys too"

Agreed. But I doubt that's why the US does it so much as how it helps the US.

"but don't you see ANY problem with placing all power in the hands of a few? "

I certainly do. That's why I dislike capitalism... but that's another thread..

[Anathema]

Pfft, the US doesn't fear communism

That is simply untrue. If you know anything about history you'd know that.

All I'm going to say to that is LOL. Shame on the US for not letting Euorpe be taken over by dictators!

How noble. Even more noble then installing facist dictators in other countries to ensure your influence, like Batista in Cuba.

[exatreide]

The Korean War was the resault on Communist agression into South Korea.

The U.S simply wanted to keep the comunists away from the democratic Japan.

So they helped out. Pushing the North Koreans to far back.

Making the chinease invloved into the war....

The removal of General Macarthuer(he wanted 20 nukes...for um reasons, He was going to nuke china)

They pulled him out...

but you have to think about it.

Why fight a war.. that even if you win you gain nothing?

[ordos45]

Actually the Korean war was waged by the United Nations to stop Communism from spreading to the Democratic nations. If you read official text, the Korean War was a "Police Action" by United Nations countries with the United States acting as am Executive Agent of sorts.

[Anathema]

Actually the chinese were involved in the war before the US was. A large amount of chinese "tourists" suddenly came to north Korea and helped them out.

[exatreide]

That did not happen untill the U.S had pushed to close to the Yallow river.

Thats when the tourists started showing up.

[Anathema]

Oh yeah- thanks for the correction.

[ethan]

ah, this sucks. im runnin to canada!!!

[SurlyPIG]

"I mean he's a murderous, propaganda-using dictator"

Who? (Both have too much power; both use propaganda; but only one is condemned for approving killing.)

I can't believe you're actually comparing Bush to Hussein...I mean, Bush is an idiot, but Hussaine is just about the most evil person with any power left in the world today. Propaganda? Forms of it are used by all parties in US politics. Bush doesn't kill. If you're referring to the death penalty, then he doesn't control that either. It's up to the individual state to choose whether or not it wants to use capital punishment.

"Nema, trade helps the little guys too"

Agreed. But I doubt that's why the US does it so much as how it helps the US.

The US has many, many trade partners. It goes out of it's way to be a trade partner to the victims of war. Exactly how do you KNOW what their intentions are when initiating these trade relations? Besides, the trades only help the US a little. They help the other countries a LOT.

"but don't you see ANY problem with placing all power in the hands of a few? "

I certainly do. That's why I dislike capitalism... but that's another thread..

Actually that was in response to Earthnuker and I was talking about communism. And note how I said *ALL* power.

Pfft, the US doesn't fear communism

That is simply untrue. If you know anything about history you'd know that.

You've got it the wrong way around. Communists fear the US - not vice versa. Capitalism always wins. Just look at the cold war. Maybe YOU should learn to interpret history. If the US wanted to wipe communism off the planet, it could. Quite easily too. Western ideas have the dictators shaking in their boots. They'd love nothing more than to keep info about the prosperity of the west out of their country while they lie about how lousy their nation is. They'll do anything to stop women from getting rights, from people choosing their leaders, and from people leaving their countries. Communism isn't a government. It's a prison.

All I'm going to say to that is LOL. Shame on the US for not letting Euorpe be taken over by dictators!

How noble. Even more noble then installing facist dictators in other countries to ensure your influence, like Batista in Cuba.

LOL the US hates cuba and has massive trade sanctions on them - they don't CHOOSE what dictator runs cuba.

[ordos45]

Even though there are massive trade sanctions on Cuba it is possible to go there and buy things. You can travel freely to Cuba from the United States, but to spend money there you need some special paperwork from the State and Treasury Departments. By the time you cut through the red tape, you don't want to go to Cuba probably.

[zamboe]

I wonder why many ppl simply don't respect others opinion or point of view, Ace no matter how much u dislike an idea, I think u should respect it, but that's up to you to do it.

I might disagree with some1 opinion, but that's never a reason to say that his ideas are garbage.

There's a very discernable diffence between opinions and lies. Stating that the US should not attack Iraq because of the cost of life is an opinion. Stating that the US will attack Iraq out of spite and greed for oil is a lie. I'm not afraid to make the judgement between these two things, nobody should.

Anyone who would buy into the propaganda of "big bad wolf US" killing and stealing from little countries needs to get a clue

Lies?, US and UK are interested in oil resources but also how much they will personally pocket from the comissions of huge weapons orders. Sometimes ppl forget that war is a great chance to do business, and well the US and UK have plenty of weapons factories to run.

This doesn't mean that I am in favor of Iraq. No way. I agree that the Iraqui president should change, however what I am concerned about is the way superpowers want to do it and the fake reasons they present.

[ordos45]

Even talk of war is actually sending the US economy lower. Contrary to popular belief, it is often that war is not good for business.

[Devastator_Mech]

ah, this sucks. im runnin to canada!!!

If you want peace, run to Switzerland, find a girl and marry her, migrate there and your life would TRULY be peaceful.

[exatreide]

Might as well go to france...Since they wont fight a war for longer than a few weeks... ::)

[Devastator_Mech]

Don't forget they are part of the Allied force, if the world war starts, its more than likely France will join.

If memory serves me right, Switzerland weren't in both world wars.

[exatreide]

they were neutral..

pah who needs france?

they surender two weeks into it.

[Acriku]

Hey guys, anyone ever hear of "looking out for your own country"? Country (A) helps out Country (B), and in return Country (A) gets a little money, which was what it wanted all along, and all the while Country (B) prospers and the lives are greatly happier than before. How the hell is it argumentative reason to say that Country (A) is greedy and looks out for itself, despite the fact they Country (A) helped the hell out of Country (B)? Who cares of Country (A) got money out of it, a good cause was done!

[Devastator_Mech]

Exactly, thats why there'll be peace for them.

What do you mean by who needs them? They're part of the Allies !!

[Anathema]

You've got it the wrong way around. Communists fear the US - not vice versa. Capitalism always wins. Just look at the cold war. Maybe YOU should learn to interpret history. If the US wanted to wipe communism off the planet, it could. Quite easily too. Western ideas have the dictators shaking in their boots. They'd love nothing more than to keep info about the prosperity of the west out of their country while they lie about how lousy their nation is. They'll do anything to stop women from getting rights, from people choosing their leaders, and from people leaving their countries. Communism isn't a government. It's a prison.

What communism is, is irrelevant. The US did fear the communist bloc (Russia had nukes). The US didn't fear the Sovjet Union for economical aspects, but for the fact that the Sovjets were a military superpower.

LOL the US hates cuba and has massive trade sanctions on them - they don't CHOOSE what dictator runs cuba.

Batista was supported by the United States- learn history. When Castro took over and turned the country communist, the CIA tried to invade Cuba- with no success.

[Devastator_Mech]

The Soviet Union didn't face any economical problems, but the Russians did !! :P

Its was partly because the Russians thought the Americans are going to invest heaps on researching military space technology, so the Russians followed and wasted too much money on it.

Also, the Russians aren't as smart and cunning as the Americans, they did not know to create conflicts between countries and sell weapons to either side to make money$$.

[nemafakei]

"If you're referring to the death penalty, then he doesn't control that either"

I had thought that he did in fact condone it as govenor of Texas, having to sigh each warrant for death.

"Capitalism always wins. Just look at the cold war"

That is one example of a capitalist society starting with most of the pursestrings of the world in competition with a "communist" system that started off after a devastating war, in a corruption-stricken environment, without much actual communism, in the end (I don't think any of the USSR leaders claimed to have reached true communism).

"Communism isn't a government. It's a prison."

Stalinism was indeed a prison.

"I was talking about communism."

That's exactly why I made that point.

"US and UK"

We're not much interested in going to war, so the polls and most opinions suggest. It's just our Prime Minister wants to keep on Bush's good side.

Note: I'm not a communist, I just like to pick at gaping holes in arguments.

[Devastator_Mech]

We're not much interested in going to war, so the polls and most opinions suggest. It's just our Prime Minister wants to keep on Bush's good side.

What do you mean by "we're", where do you live? Please point thing out more specifically next time.

If you say Prime Minister, I'll assume you talking about Australia.

Indeed your right, Australia have no interest to be in the war. But they want and love to be a flatterer for the Americans, and John Howard the fag is the flatter leader.

[Acriku]

Nema is in England, so I assume that's where.