McDune's (tm)

[djast]

Why should they stop after Dune 7 if there are still enough people who are willing to pay for such undunesque books like the prequels or the legends? Don't get me wrong: those books aren't a awfully bad read but they have almost nothing  in common with dune except the names. For me they were always some kind of alternative world, a "What if?" for they are full of inconsistencies and rather unnecessary additions.

But back to the topic: I have a vision... a vision of a neverending story, a story contained not in 6 books, not in 9 or 12... a story contained in something times 10 books (make something about 3 or 4 or more) containing every second of the duniverse from today (why stop going into the past at the Butlerian Djihad?) to the end of all things (alltough it never has to end, has it?), something like Perry Rhodan but with 6 realy good books inbetween which will be totally forgotten and ignored for there are so many other exciting plots in that "Endless Chronicles of Dune".

Who wouldn't show great interest in how the first sandworm got his first bellyache because he ate something wrong? How about descriping Omnius travels through deep space through the milennias? Or how about revealing Paul Atreides first words?

Do they really have to tell EVERY single idea they come up with? Can't they leave some things to the imagination of the reader? Why don't they focus on their own "universes"? They don't have to stick with dune, have they? I would have enjoyed the Legends series so much if it wasn't for all those stupid plot inconsitencies. Seperateted from Dune it would have been a good book. Not a great or even perfect book but so much more entertaining.

And reading about the "Paul of Dune" idea I just really really pray that they write Dune 7 first and really really soon for those two books (Hunter and Sandworms) are the only books I wanted in the first place...

[Tako]

I agree, Dune 7 and then be done with it, if they want to do more they can use the universe but let them make a story that has nothing to do whit the dune (original) in the first place.

We all are waiting for dune 7 but the writers tought it would be nice to do the prequels to...

what do they know?

[theProphet]

just wanted to speak clearly, I find it admirable that you older fans stuck by the genre even though it lied dormant for years...just wanted u 2 know that the newer fans like myself were brought in and hooked on the prequals and miniseries and games and all the "New Dune" (rather then McDUne) stuff, and the whole trashing of them makes it rather difficult for the newer fans 2 relate 2 you kind sages.  I personally did not like any of Frank's books beyond the original "Dune" I found his sequals about as fun a read as some technical manual and i like the warfare and I like hugely broad concepts explained 2 me.  Still im not insulting your views, nor do i wish u to change them, like what u like, hate what u hate, just please allow us newbies the same courtesy please.

[Dante]

Older? how much older, I wonder? I for one just turned eighteen five days ago, I can't be that much older.

Feel free to like to prequels, if that is your wish. Just don't expect me to stop trashing them, because it is something of a mini-crusade.

[Apollyon]

The main distinction between prequels and originals should be made thus:

Originals = literature

Prequels = garbage

[Dante]

The main distinction between prequels and originals should be made thus:

Originals = literature

Prequels = garbage

He speaks the truth...

Edit: Added quote so that people don't need to go back a page to know what I'm talking about. Aren't I nice?

[Andrew]

Older? how much older, I wonder? I for one just turned eighteen five days ago, I can't be that much older.

I'm pretty sure it is what you were brought up on. I watched the miniseries, then read all the original books.

But theProphet watched the miniseries and read the prequel books. My guess is if you read the prequel books first and enjoyed them, reading the originals would be different than reading the prequels. My guess it would depend on what you like and what you saw/read first. I hold dearly that the first miniseries was the best thing I ever saw, yet other people don't like it that much.

I myself dislike the prequels. So much that I got scammed into buying all 3 of the jihad books, and have not even started to read Battle of Corrin even though I bought it in September, knowing I would most likely be dissapointed and bored while reading it.

[theProphet]

right andrew, I heard of the games, then watched the miniseries and was really fascinated with the depth of the empire, the action and intrigue of the books.  I then read Dune, Heretics, and COD, and honestly found them quite confusing, way to heavy on the intrigue and just not the books i thought they'd be.  The house books (first 3 prequals) really drew me into the books more, House Harkonnen is my favorite sci-fi book period.  I think that the 2nd set werent nearly as good, but i still thought they were pretty fun.

  And yes, as a 22 year old, kind cymek, im older in years but was reffering 2 how long you liked the Duniverse, as im new to that.

[Tako]

you read dune heretics and cod? you did not read messiah? (should explain some of your questions) and the best book from franks work is still (in my humble opinion ) god emperor of dune

I liked the miniseries, the prequels whre nice ( nothing more nothing less) but lacked the whole FH way of vieuwing the world of Dune, I liked the way he made you think not to explain every bit he wrote.

the games are nice too but have notging to do what so ever whit the duniverse in my opinion.

personel not: nice to see some new people of my age  most of the people here are around Dante's age ( no des-respect here dante you rock!) or even younger (14-15 and such) I'm 23 myself

[theProphet]

heh yeah nice 2 see a few around our age as well

  I read the 2 books following dune...well half of the 2nd, as it just really wasnt working for me, just found it dull and i couldnt understand why FH seemed to constantly skip over the explainations i needed or the parts in the story i found really crucial to know. AKA Paul's Jihad etc.

[Dante]

That's what makes the originals superior. They expect the readers to actually think and get involved, rather than spelling everything out as one might to a child.

[theProphet]

please dont insult my intelligence sir.  Im a 2 time war veteran myself, and these are NOT simple concepts: my favorite example is how at the end of Dune a group of sardukar and the baron's men lay defeated by the fremen, who won the battle.  When the next book start Paul is a tyrant and millions lay dead and billions enslaved.  Even with the wierding way and the atredies training, it seems defending a hostile environment that you are use to is one thing, but to take a vastly inferior force and conquer the entire universe, and convert them forcibly at gunpoint to his religion is another... I wouldnt consider the defeat of billions by a small number of elite desert fighters in a few decades a childs concept, would you?  Yes its obvious that it happened, but I would think the story of how would be interesting.  Its not that I cannot tell what Frank means, i would just like to read how sir.

[nemafakei]

He's not saying that the concepts FH ellides are childish, merely that some of the concepts that BH/KJA don't are.

[djast]

I have to apologize for my rather brute saracasm, I got carried away because I am somehow dissapointed of the newer Dune books especially the prequels wich I honestly hate. Except probably House Harkonnen. Can't tell you why but it seemed a bit better to me then House Atreides or House Corrino (the worst Dune book I know).

But one thing seems to me fundamentaly true: Somehow you always prefer those books/movies/games that you read first because they are actually those books wich you like or don't like and depending on that opinion you read all the others or not. Sure there are some excepitions and you someone might prefer eg God Emperor of Dune to Dune but maybe thats because they aren't that much different from a stylistic point of view whereas the BH/KA are quite different to the FH books. So if you like the prequels and legends for their space battles, heavy action and intrigue-free plot (which is really OK by me since I alway accept and prefer different opinions) it's no wonder that you can't stand the origninal saga for they are different.

Just some facts about my Dune experiences: At the age of about 11 I played the Cryo Dune (the first computer game) and loved it right from the start playing it more than any other game at that time. Then I saw the David Lynch movie at the age of 12 (One of the most intense memories I have of first seeing the film is beeing frightened of the Harkonnen heartplug and the navigator). When I was 16 I read the complete Dune-Saga in one go almost without a break and those books made me think about a lot of things like eg God and Beeing Human etc.

Now it's your guess which Dune stuff I like the most and why...

[theProphet]

aye thats understandable about you liking the first things youve read often enough, and I agree House Harkonnen was the best of the prequals...i think it may be because that it made Leto look more human instead of unbeatable as he was in the first and last of the 3, and also because of the scheming and just brutal Harkonnen plots, with Rabban and the Baron.  It really seemed head

[Tako]

to reply on your vieuw of the fremen, there where millions of them in the desert ( not some few wondering here and there in the desert)

When paul became there messiah they wiilingly all followed him into battle, also other men and women would join his army's due to the influence of the qizarat.

the sardaukar wahre beaten because they where on hostile soil against huge sandworm, this wounded there worale iun such a way that they never regained there old streght and they where told by shaddam as to the contract between him and paul.

I think it is nice to have some room to for debate and own ideas to how things had evolved, when they tell you everything you don't need your imagynation and that is what sci-fi and fantasy support on.

but I agree with Fjast Wona that the first book you read is most of the time the best ( although for me it was the second: GEOD)

[Khan]

GEOD isn't the second book, or do you mean that Dune is your second favourite because of GEOD, I'm a bit confused.

[nemafakei]

His favourite was the second book he read. He read GEOD second.

[Dante]

That seems a bit silly, considering that it's not the second book in the series.

I'm a sir! ;D

I'm not insulting anyone's intelligence (well, nobody here at any rate...). But the prequels are simplistic, as a child's book would be, while the originals are far more complex and demanding. Personally my favourite book was the sixth one I read, Chapterhouse.

[Dunenewt]

I thought the Pardot Kynes stuff in the Prequels was quite good, and possibly something as good as what Frank would have done, although the less said about the Great Spice War, the better, in my opinion.  As for the the new books, the Legends of Dune series, I think they're good, although I have yet to read the last one so I can totally pass judgement. They are as they say, covering an important time in the Dune universe, albeit a universe which is quite different to the one presented by Frank due the timescale.

Just for keeping the Dune series alive I think we should be giving KJA/BH credit if for nothing else because can anyone honestly say that they think that KJA or BH wanted to the books to do well just on a monetary basis?  I hope not, especially in Brian's case, and I'm sure he does everything he can to try and make his dad proud of what he is writing.

[theProphet]

bravo dunenewt...excellently said.

[Andrew]

Yah I highly doubt Brian is doing it solely for monetary issues. After reading Dreamer of Dune it sounded like they were well off by the end of it.

I just hope they take more than a year to write each of the Dune 7/8 books. There is no rush. I can wait another 6 years as long as they are done as good as possible by Brian and Kevin. Even if they were just a little better than the house prequels, I will be able to read them without agony. (Jihad is just too horrible to read.)

[Barbarossa]

Yes, they are doing a good job of keeping Dune alive. But is it neccisary? When you are trying to bring in new fans of a series, the way to do it is not to just throw together a turd and market it  under the original series. Wow, I can be crude when I want to be!  :D

Anyway, what I would of liked to see is a book descibing what happened after Chapterhouse, FH was originally going to write a last book, wrappin up the series but passed before he could. :'(

[Tako]

That seems a bit silly, considering that it's not the second book in the series.

I know I started reading the books of Dune at the thrid book COD, because there was no Dune or Messiah in the local Library :-

[NeoDevilbane]

My opinion is Dune doesn't need to whore itself out to kids and "young adults" in waterered down tripe of the like... the real fans of Dune seek it out, be it by word of mouth or what-have-you, a relative, a friend, etc..