Jurassic Park, reality?

[Timenn]

Nema is right with: who defines the will of god

You know what happened because people followed the 'will of god'

[Acriku]

It kind of depends if it's evil or not.

[hypothetical situation]

The "Korsars" are from Country A. Country A is constantly under attack by Country B's military, and the only way to stop them is to obliterate them. The "Korsars" finally take a stand and set up tactical explosions all around and in Country B. Country B is blown to smithereens, including the civilians and military. Now Country A can live in peace and is able to survive.

[/hypothetical situation]

Was that evil or good? It may be evil because they haven't tried anyother course or method to end the situation, and they killed many innocent civilians. It may be good because it was their only choice that they had, and if they didn't do it they themselves would be obliterated, civilians included as well.

[Acriku]

Nema is right with: who defines the will of god

You know what happened because people followed the 'will of god'

I agree in many ways, many times what was considered evil(against the will of God) made humanity do something even more evil (morally), e.g. the Spanish Inquisition, and many other persecutions. And as I have said before, evil depends on whose side you are looking from.

[The_Sadukar]

wasn't the tread originaly about cloning and such ??? ??? ???

[Terror]

hah this thread has had many changes. I'm surprised that it's not in the dungeon yet, unless i too am in the dungeon ofcourse.

[TMA_1]

Well good and evil is an individual thing. Granted people take cultural ideas of what is good and evil. Idealism takes sincerety. You can be sincerely wrong or right. It really is a false argument. To some muslims. The attack on america is right. We americans and many others agree that it is wrong. I think though that we have sown the wind and reaped the whirlwind. We get what we deserve for being so nosey and bullying.

[Acriku]

It may be offtopic, but highly interesting and usually is a good thing to learn something from. :)

[The_Sadukar]

For once I agree whit you TMA_1.

[ordos45]

Wow, everyone, please keep posting. This is turning into the good and evil debate thread, and all we need to finish that transformations is Edric and Shaddam arguing over the Atreides being Nazis or not.

[Anathema]

Lol Ordos that didn't make any sense at all.

[Edric O]

Well, it made sense to me. :) And NO, Ordos, I will not turn this into another good & evil debate. ;)

Okay Nema, I agree that "the will of God" is not enough to define good, because it leaves room for interpretation and twisted things like the Inquisition, etc. But it's better than saying good and evil are subjective! If they depend on your point of view, then someone could go ahead and say the Nazis were good, Mother Theresa was evil, and so on. Good and Evil are absolutes. Hard to define, true, but still absolute.

"Democracy" as we know it is already failing. It won't survive more than a century at best, IMO. Look at Bush. The only reason democracy still stands is that we have no better alternative. But we should find one, and ASAP, because democracy will fall anyway, and I don't think we want it to be replaced by dictatorship, do we?

Acriku, I think that in your hypothetical situation what the Korsars did was evil. Killing is evil, even in self-defence. IMO anyway.

TMA, you still haven't replied to my post about idealism:

"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing."

[Anathema]

I would call killing people because you actually enjoy it evil, but not out of self defense. If somebody intends to kill you, and the only way to stop him is to kill him before he gets you, then what would you do?

Edric O, I think that not only democracy will fall, but the entire civilisation in some point in the future. It happened to every civilisation- the Greeks, Incas, Byzantins, etc.

And what's this crap about the Atreides being nazis? Are you referring to the genetical plan of Leto II?

[The_Sadukar]

how can anyone think of the Atreides bing Nazis ??? ??? ???

[Acriku]

Before this gets any further, Edric, me, ex, ordos, just about all the old peeps engaged in a thread about whether or not Atreides were evil/nazis. It was long and quite interesting, but rambling nonetheless ;)

[Anathema]

Do you remember what thread that was?

[exatreide]

yea in the dungeon if i reamber right...it turned into a big relgion war thread to..... :P

[gryphon]

Good and evil are mearly interpretations of individuals and sociaties about certain things. They not really exists at this moment. For every thing that is good or bad here, there is a oposite in a different culture.

Headhunting is still excepted in some places, so is maring out your daughter. Ore having slaves. Death is not a bda thing for some, for others it is. Things are not just good or bad. They are what they are ant the context in which they happen clasify them as good or evil.

Whould God let an entire world drown ? That would sound cruel, but under those conditions it was apperently axcepted. But to me it's doesn't sound like a "good-God". Unless that God knows the nesesaty of evil, and is then not mearly a "good-God".

But the interpretation of the Bible has changed numerous times over as much years. So you can't really take it as an example in most cases.

[Edric O]

The thing is, God sees the future. Actually, He sees ALL the possible futures. So sometimes he might do something that looks bad or pointless, in order to influence the future and make it take a certain direction. Very small things can have very big consequences after hundreds of years.

Good and evil are NOT subjective. The fact that some cultures have a twisted view of good and evil doesn't mean that they are right "in their own way". Would you say the Nazi notions of good and evil are acceptable?

[Anathema]

There are things that are just plain evil, such as genocide or mass murdering. But centuries ago, pagans used to be cast out of society because they were "evil" just because they did not believe in the christian God. Now we would say that is unacceptable, so good and evil ARE subjective.

[Edric O]

Christians were also cast out of society and murdered because they refused to worship the Roman gods...

But just because that was they way things were back then doesn't mak it good!

[Anathema]

In our views they were wrong- but here's a hypothetical situation:

Over 200 years, almost every country in the world is ruled by christian zealots. Non-christians are being held in detainment camps and are forced to slavery. They look back to the year 2002 and say that the christians back then abandoned the principals of the bible by putting up a soft attitude towards non-christians.

In other words: the current generation decides what is good and evil.

[Edric O]

I find that scenario offensive! >:( You know very well that we would never do that. Can't you just say "generic religious zealots"?

Anyway, such zealots would be evil. Full stop. Just like the Inquisition and the Crusades were evil. I don't care that they thought it was good! The Nazis also thought it was good to kill Jews!

[Anathema]

Hey, cool down. I said, hypothetical. No offence meant ;).

But christians in the past did commit similar crimes, and there is always the risk that a society will fall into moral decay.

What is evil for us, might not be evil for a generation in the future.

And you don't know if we will do such a thing or not. We all know what mankind is capable of. A good example are islamic extremists. They are hostile towards non-muslims, but in the age of Mohammed they were forgiving and kind to strangers.

[TMA_1]

Dont look at christians as models because they will always fail. Thats why it says for us believers to follow christ. To show to unbelievers that we are the body of christ and love all so much that we give the gospel freely. Look at christ. Christians are sinners just like everybody else. Jesus was not a sinner and he should be looked at earthnuker. not some stupid catholics that never really understood the bible in the first place.

If you know your history you will find that catholics did a multitude of things against the bible. I could point them out of you want.

[gryphon]

Edric O. Where is the entire consept of free will in your idea ?

And when the totalety counts, who judges that ?

It could result in your live being crap just because God thinks it's for the greater good.

And besides that, what makes you think your idea or interpretation of "God" is the only right one ?

[ don't take the above offencive, it's not ment that way. :) ]