Abortion

[gryphon]

UsulSK, are you triing to say we are getting a little bit of topic ? ;)

[quoudam72]

Also, people who kill themselves, they are going against the primary instinct, to survive! They use reasoning onto whether they want to go or not, and they 'choose' to go. Sad, but so. Debate! I compel you to!

Acriku I have only one thing to say about animal suicide...........lemmings!!!  :)

[Acriku]

Gryphon, studies actually show that suicidal people just don't give a crap. To put it simply. They want to die, and that's it. A few may want to go to heaven quickly, but all the others don't. They want to die and that's it. And also, with computers attached to their brains maybe dogs could read and write, but they couldn't on their own. Their brain just isn't advanced enough. And I believe I said learning a NEW language, after you already have established a base language. Learning a language for the first time is survival sure, but the second isn't. In most circumstances. And we don't have all those abilities because reason is our ability among others, and radar is the bats. Throughout thousands and

[gryphon]

If dogs arn't capable of learning sutch a complicated language as we have, how can you "blame" them that they havn't. You age "judging" animals by human standards. That's just not correct. Animals and humans should be judged by "universal" standards.

The point is that animls other than humans ( examples apes, and dolphins ) are capable of learning a language not origionally theirs. A thing you've denied possible.

And what 'new" language have humans learned that we hav not created ourselves ?

You can't also compair the fact that we could have radar like capabiletys in a few years. You denie the fact that animals could have those skills in a few years as well. We are not the only spicies that is evolving. Again, the point is animals have "intelligent" capabileties we don't have.

"We don't have those abileties becouse reason is ours."

- Animals don't have reason because the ones they have are theirs. ::) We can both develope the quality's of eatch other, but we don't because that is what give us our own place in nature. It doesn't put us outside the other animals in nature.

So I'm anxious to know what "scientific" proof we have that we are not just animals.

note: you are right about the people who commit suacide, in a way that is ;)

[Acriku]

I never said us humans are so special. All animals wouild evolve to adapt to their surroundings, and if an animal goes blind due to the radiation, for example, they would over time all be blind, and be born blind. Then they would adapt with ESP or RADAR, etc. Over millions of years mind you. Adaptation rules! Woo! And new languages I mean like, I learned english as a baby, and I want to learn Sign Language for the heck of it. What kind if survival is that? Not much I would say. And you say how do I know animals can't talk already, well that's like asking are their aliens on earth. We simply do not know, and I'm not one to say we do. And just to let you know, my theory on dogs barking being a language is that their barks are not actually a language, but a means of expression. A quick yelp would mean they are in trouble, in pain, etc. Dogs bark at eachother not because they are saying how stupid their master is, but merely just expressing to the other dog this is me I am owner of this territory. Some are not like that though, anways that's my theory! And these arguments are to establish humans have or don't have reasoning right? I forgot throughout the arguments.

[gryphon]

We have a better developed language then other animals. But the fact remains that you can't deny that animals have a language. The comminicate as you've said and that's language.

The argument is that humans are the only ones with conciensness. (21.01.2002 your post) I'm trying to explain we can't say for shure that we are the only animal that has "conciensness". Science whould like to give an answer to that quastion but they simpley can't. There are to many things we don't know at this point about the difference between human and other animal behaviour. We just don't under stand them. ( compleatly, to mutch variables )

note: you know the term "ESP" is a variable one. We have no sences for that "thing" but the other that uses the ESP-"gift" has got the sences for it so it isn't ESP for them. ;)

[Acriku]

If you would apply those facts then yes animals have their own "language". And it wouldn't take long, maybe 5 to 15 years for someone to find this out. All you do really is scan brain waves, and conclude what you can, although it is a much more detailed project. Good arguments Gryphon.

[gryphon]

Thanks :)

Now isn't it about time to get back to the subject. Abortion that is ? ;D

[quoudam72]

No, we should close this thread and start one on, "Animal/human intellectual differences evolution or survivial", it's a more progressive subject than abortion. It's just a suggestion................

[gryphon]

No, not again ! ;D

[ walkes to the closet and graps a bottle out of it, opens it and swallows the contents in hope to get a spice overdose ]

[Acriku]

I think I am tired for now. But if you post it they will come. Or atleast I will.

[ordos45]

Hmm, lets see if we cang et back on topic.   ;D  Animals, do they try and have abortions?  I remember a billboard I once saw, it read "While in the clinic a human kills her baby, outside the bird defends her young from being eaten"

[quoudam72]

Male lions sometimes eat the younger male lions...........

[nampigai]

That's because they taste so good, mmmm  :P

[ordos45]

probably they do so out of trying to stop them from taking mates, etc.

[daniel]

hm...i wonder wut would happen if Jesica had an abortion..............

....if ppl are agiants abortion then i tihnk they shouldnt eat chiken or fish eggs at all.  ::) :O

[Ligic_Tha_Master]

Chicken and fish eggs? Loki what are you talking about?!

[quoudam72]

That's his statement on abortion . Get it eating chicken and fish eggs are an allusion to a developing fetus equaling abortion of an unborn offspring.

[Acriku]

Fish eggs? Now that I haven't had.

[ordos45]

Don't eat fish eggs and rarely eat chicken eggs.

[quoudam72]

Maybe an iguana diet or other lizard. Sure Feyd I feel fine.

[nampigai]

Uhm Fed are you alright?

[daniel]

fish eggs can also be called caviar i think...anyone ever eaten sushi?? the little red dots are fish eggs..

[Acriku]

Mushu pork rocks  :O And I'm sure exotic food has to do with abortion... ::)

[evilbaronatreides]

humm the comparasion between eating animal eggs and human abortion....i think this is getting a bit of topic; but what the hay. Ok lets go back to the subject of whose choice abortion is: I am saying it is a womans choice since it is her body. Yes, you say, there is another human life growing inside her. But can that fetus/zygote/thingamajig make its own deciscion? Also, if its also a mans/fathers deciscion, does that mean a woman have a say in something like a man getting his vas deferens snipped? Or getting a testical removed? Does a woman have any right over a mans body? No, and the opposite is the same; a man has no right over a womans body.