Religion

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Hmmmmm shall i be a muslim too?

I like what they are doing in the temples  ;D

Seriously, i have to agree with gunseng there.

[The_old_worm]

"And Islam may expand more if america don't stop doing they are doing now."--Gunseng Harkonnen

I defer my response to this by simply saying that I have responded to this on the Nuclear war thread.  It's easy to sit on the sidelines and gripe about how the game is being played.  But I don't want to mix these topics, so I will not respond again to this unless it is on the other thread.

The sooner we realize that the "Great Religions" are bogus, the better off we will be.

[nemafakei]

I agree totally. Religion is superstition of the past that we must shed before progressing in our understanding.

[Acriku]

Like the old saying, "Search for the false, fall like the others"

And about Islam, is it just a better lie? There has to be a reason in the balance beam lowering on the Islam side.

[quoudam72]

Now I will have to disagree with some of your statements old_worm and Nema. "Bogus" and "superstition" could only be applied to people with a low level of intelligence about religion. I have my gripes about religion also but mine is a thing of progression. Example remember when humankind thought the world was flat only through exploration did they find that the world was indeed not flat. I find the same to be true for religion.

[The_old_worm]

Is that not the definition of Bogus, Shogun?  It was false that the world was flat just as the writings of the Bible are false.  The problem with religion, is that there really can be no progression.  It will just end up being more guesses piled on the old ones, never coming any closer to the truth.  We need to wipe the slate clean, and make our discoveries from scratch.  Science has already done this.  

[Sardauker-Kirov]

The Bible doesn't include scientifical subjects. It is religious. And you are saying we need to clear Religions.

If you do that, all the live's of people will turn into a hell. Religious fanatic's will rise up and start Organization's to Destroy the unbelievers. You are defiling the Spirit of the people and even more.

[Acriku]

Religion will never go away Kirov, and if it does it's a LONG WHILE till it does. And who knows, maybe we will gradually accept that we need to work together to survive and won't need some God to protect us.

[quoudam72]

OK old_worm here is an example of progression within religion. Science has had help that it never knew exisited.

Space navigation is faced by many obstacles, but amongst the main difficulties comes the problem of protection against active cosmic rays and high energy ultrviolet radiation.

For example this verse: "On you will be sent splinters of fire (cosmic radiation) and smokeless fire (ultaviolet radiation) and you lack defence. - Al-Rahman (35)

The interplanetary space is practically an extention of the solar atmosphere. It starts near the sun by an outflow of extremely hot gases upon which are imposed plasma flows. High energy particles (cosmic radiation) are ejected into space.

Religion taught me that this is what happens when man uses the higher knowledge that was given to him. Do you know where that came from?

[evilbaronatreides]

A fortune cookie? ;D

But FS, who's to say that "knowledge as we know it came from a higher source? For all we know knowledge could just be the result of some chemical reaction within our brains. Do humans develope knowledge or is a gift?

and sandwraith, everyone uses propaghanda and bias in order to gain a mass. What do you call the the Bible or the Koran or the Torah? Giant pamphelets explaining the greatness of God.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Suddenly if we all don't believe in god anymore.

.....

*Millions of Asteroid's approaches earth with Alarming speed and all the People scream*

[Gunseng_Harkonnen]

Some people need God to leave on this world, cos they must believe in something, thats somewhere is better world, they always can rely on somehow who is better. But some people don`t need this. If you are believer, its good, if you don`t its good too, its only your choice and I think nobody has right to say that another people is wrong. Nobody knows what is true, we will see after dead...or not see nothing.

And The_old_worm, I just replyed on Terror post, I didn`t want have disscussion about United States.

[quoudam72]

A fortune cookie  ;D

LOL good one EBA.  :) Seriously what could we attribute knowledge to in some cases but a "higher source". When I say a "higher source" I do refer to something beyond humanity but at the same time the information that has been given to humankind is vast and we understand it little by little as we progress in our evolution.  Look at what type of creatures we are (negatives and positives as a whole race of beings) in time humankind could develop beyond our present short-comings.

Knowledge is developed everyone has the ability (unless born with some form of birth defect) to learn. Knowledge is learning, then with understanding of what you know putting it to practical use. Knowledge could also be a gift but a gift to be further developed in human progression. Who could ever doubt that one day humankind would travel amongst the stars?

(IMO) Religion in its basic form is "ancient teachings" but these teachings also are the foundation of the world we live. In my eyes it is not the religion itself as it is the practitioners of the religions that have failed to understand what it is they teach (or should teach) humankind through the medium of religion. That is knowledge that will have to be further developed in humankind's progression.

[The_old_worm]

Of course the Bible doesn't include scientific material, because the people who wrote it were ignorant of science.  They saw mysteries in the world and used the best tool of that time to describe it, guesses.  It's amazing to me, that as science shows realistic explainations for these mysteries, the religious still cling to their guesses.  Where is the progression in that?

Shogun, you can interperet the writings of the Bible in many different ways, distorting the obvious literal meaning to fit present day knowledge, just as some Christians try to twist the wording of genesis to fit evolution and an old universe.  Let's be realistic.  The Men who wrote the Bible truly believed that the Earth was created in 7 days, Eve was created by a rib of Adam, The Earth is flat, the sky is a dome held up by columns, etc...  Yet Christians twist these meanings to fit our present knowledge.  This is not progress, this is lying.

Gunseng and Kirov, No matter what the intentions are, good or bad, a lie is still a lie. Even if it makes the world a better place, it is still a lie.  You should seek truth, no matter how ugly and disturbing it may be, because the search for truth, is what frees our minds, and advances our species.  Religion holds us stagnant in a world of lies.  

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Maybe you see everything in a Scientific way.

"Once" again you can't say god is a lie. Just because he can't be proved by a bunch of Wire's and Mechanical attachments. I believe god created the galaxy and let humankind find their own way.

Maybe god let us experience the Wonders of Nature in the beginning when Human kind evolved into the "Advanced"

[quoudam72]

Ok old_worm I see your stance but that is the point the Bible doesn't contain scientific material in detail.

[The_old_worm]

Kirov, I don't say that God is a lie.

[quoudam72]

And, the fact is, the Bible DOES attempt to contain scientific material with creation of the Earth and Universe.

[Gunseng_Harkonnen]

Gunseng and Kirov, No matter what the intentions are, good or bad, a lie is still a lie. Even if it makes the world a better place, it is still a lie.

[The_old_worm]

Sure, if a person needs to believe in the lies of man-made religion to make them feel better about their life, more power to them.

[gryphon]

Lies and truths now he ;)

"even if it makes the world a better place, a lie is a lie. You should seek truth"

How can we say what's a lie and what the truth, and more the seartch for nowledge / truth ? The truth is just our interpretation to certain facts, certain things that happen. This is not good or bad, just an event. We judge it as good or bad. And then it becomes a lie or not, so if it makes the entire world a better place is can never be a lie. More people will judge it as a good than as an evil thing.

That the basis of a lot of things, when a lot of people agree on a thing it is justified. No matter if it's really good or wrong. It's a justifiable cause, and therefor a good thing.

When you believe in something, that thing becomes "truth". No matter if it's a lie. You'll give you life for it, your soul if nessesary. People have believed in certain things throughout history and given there lifes to that believe. You can't just say they where wrong, thought wrong and it wasn't the truth. It was [ and still is ] their truth, no matter what others say. It's what you believe in, and no matter what some one else will say or show you, that what you believe in isn't a lie.

That's probbebly what thet ment with the X-files episode " believe the lie."

Or the M. street preatchers with there album "this is my truth, tell me yours."

;)

[Acriku]

Which is why agnosticism works, because I believe anything could have and will happen. I don't say I know the absolute truth, and I accept any and all possibilities. Just because I argue against it, doesn't mean I believe it isn't true. I provide facts, and see what you people think. Agnosticism= Knowing the apple falls from the tree, but allows other possibilities like the apple getting plucked,etc.

And again, stop putting words in other people's mouths Kirov! Keep this a mature discussion please.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

What are you talking about Acriku?

Could you quote the word that seems to be "Immature" for you.

:)

[nemafakei]

"The disbelief in God is just another form of Blind Faith"

It can be. Not necessarily, however.

"I don't say I know the absolute truth"

Nor do I, but I believe in what I am most certain of. That is the only way to advance. And unlike religion, I am prepared to accept when I have previously been wrong.

[nampigai]

Just for your notice moslem don't go to temples they go into mosks.