Gunseng_Harkonnen Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 About greedy, power-hungry and materialistic Church. Its all true that Church use authority that it has becouse of being religion institution and try do policy. But it shouldnt be compare with faith. I don`t believe but I think everyone can have their own religion, and: In my country people think that if Church is bad, religion is bad too. And this is not true. Real Christian doesn`t must going to Church, cos he believe that God is in heart and he haven`t to meet him in one place. I talk about it cos I heard something about my catholic friends and Church and it made me angry.
gryphon Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 You heard something on this topic that made you angry ?I think [ and realy hope ] that I can speak for all of us who have posted on this topic we don't whan't to place a blame on anyone, anything or any religion.We're just debating to get a better insight in things and to exchange our different views on things.But still, when you do feel insulted by one of my [ our ] posts let me [ us ] know. :)
Gunseng_Harkonnen Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 No! I said that I heard something about my catholic friends that made me angry. My catholic friends don`t post on this forum, are they ;).No, I just saying that people who know that Church is corrupted, sometimes insulted those who belive...I had today very nice talk with some untolerant people who insulted my 2 friends that they are stupid, etc. Only becouse Church is not as fair in this what do as should. Church doesn`t make faith, if poeople belive, they belive in hearts.
Acriku Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 But that is why the Church had hell and heaven, an incentive to go to church and do whatever they say.
Gunseng_Harkonnen Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 And I don`t see connection with hell and Church. For me, if somebody has some intelligention, he know what is sin and what not, without Church. E.G, I don`t think that not going there is sin, while Church says that it is. Be fair in live and you won`t go to hell, you won`t go to hell only becouse you didn`t listen priest.
Acriku Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 Think of it: The people that preached the religion to the illiterate peasants and nobles (monks, priests) basically said they spoke the Word of God. If you don't have the Bible to refer to, who/what else is there to trust? People were desperate to get into heaven, they would do anything. And if the monk or priest says there is a hell where you go if you are bad, the peasants and nobles had no choice but to follow that. Nowadays though, we have many references, ourselves, Bible, parents, etc.
Gunseng_Harkonnen Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 And more people know that they don`t must listen everything that priest tells like priest wasn`t a priest but God in buman body. But I must say that in part you are right, there still are people who think Church will lead them to heaven. Priest are only humans like us, sometimes even worst.
The_old_worm Posted March 29, 2002 Posted March 29, 2002 It doesn't necessarily have to be Church that is controlling. Â A persuasive person, can, and frequently does lead groups of people with fanatical obedience. Â These lead to cults.I don't think you give the Church as much credit as they deserve. Â Many, many people feel that going to Church is the way to get into heaven. Â They believe that their preacher is teaching the word of God, or at the very least feel like better Christians for listening to him. The Church has a much firmer grip on the masses than you give it credit for.
ordos45 Posted March 29, 2002 Author Posted March 29, 2002 Hmmm, the Christian Church is actually pretty weak anymore.  And seems to be splitting  in half between old people and the younger generations.  If only you could listen to some of the arguements at just my Church on why the Oldies think it is sacrilegious to have a contemporary service seperate from the normal one.  The Islamic Church however has never been stronger in ym opinion.  It has an annual growth rate of 2.2 percent and is the world's second largest religion.  Also if you go to a mosque just listen to some of the things being said, that extremist minority is not at much a minority as the media downplays it to be.  At least equality of gender is catching up in Muslim countries, 3 women suicide bombers in recent months.
Gunseng_Harkonnen Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 One question: it is Church`s infuence that Shiites are hanging spikes on their body and some people are pretend they are Christ on cross, or its only their twisted feel of faith.
jacobdouds Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 According to the bible, the war in heaven was split up, two thirds followed god, one third followed lucifer. It said that the followers of lucifer would never get a body, and the followers of god would all return to him. Therefore, it is almost impossible to go to hell.
Dub_c Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 yes but tha "after life" is split up in four places u got tha celestial kingdom(tha best), terrestial kingdom, telestial and outter darkness which is hell and tha way to get to outter darkness is to see a vision of a angel and still not belive in chirst. actully read tha whole thing then u would know of it(i got taught this at church)but i still hate it coz i go every week
jacobdouds Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 Actually Dubby, that is only according to the Mormon belief. No other religion believes in other levels of  heavens.Suprised you even lisened that much in church.
Dub_c Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 see wat one is rite we dont actully know we will probley never knowand i do listen y wouldnt i
jacobdouds Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 Okay, but considering most major religions say there is one heaven, and only ours (mormons) say that there are three, I think the Majority would have to be correct.
The_old_worm Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 Ordos, I agree that the Church is weaker than it was in years past.
Terror Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 christianity (or whatever it's called) doesn't grow anymore... at least not in europe... while the islam grows very rapidly.. i think it won't take long before the Islam is the major religion
TMA_1 Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 Islam grows because they have lots of children in muslim nations.lol no offence but it is true. and america isnt a christian nation. we have never been. It is currupt and we try so hard to keep our kids in control that we keep our birth rates down. america is in chaos because we have never been "religious" but are trying to find god. We wont because we are too currupt. Christianity doesnt grow becauseee there  are no nations of christianity anymore. There were never supposed to be any. The bible clearly states that it is a matter of the heart and not from the outside. we accept christ as individual  people. We teach that through him we are saved from sin. in history the catholic church during the  european feudel ages didnt teach wht the  bible said. thats why people like martin  luther reformed the church somewhat. and just because a few people that say they are christians seem to be the only ones there is always a small group of true believers. In france during this time there was a group called the vuldencians. They lived in a community that were great. they never fought  or did things like the catholic church did. and to show you that the  catholic church was currupt. they made these great christians into heretics just because they believed in the bible and not the established church.
Acriku Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 America isn't in chaos! It is far from it! Religion doesn't have a big bearing in our country, because of our need to be politically correct, and try not to offend anyone - which is impossible but we try.
Gunseng_Harkonnen Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 Most number of Christians are now in Latin and South America. They too have a lot of children in nation.
Terror Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 religion is often very strong in country's were people are desparate no offence or something... but it's just in country's where there's a lot of war or people are poor religion is strong... in the past Europe was very religious... it's actually losing it's power since only a couple of years... but in the middle ages till about the second world war religion was very very strong here... but since Europe has gotten more wealthy religion is failing here.... except the islam... immigrants that come over here wondrously keep their faith which I think is impressive because christianity couldn't do this but the Islam can...
Dub_c Posted March 30, 2002 Posted March 30, 2002 JACOB I WOULD LIKE U TO PROVE IT TO EVERYONE HOW THA SRIPTURES R FAKE
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