Religion

[Acriku]

Such as fighting for your country. E.g. the taliban.

[The_old_worm]

And many other atrocities done "In the Name of God"  Religion is so powerful and volatile, that it very much threatens our existance.  That's why I attack words like "assumption" and "common sense" the way I do.  These are subjective concepts, what is common sense for one is idiotic for another.  These disagreements in ideas can be dangerous, especially if both parties take them as absolutes.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Alot of people are also against the Taliban, Just a short note.

Btw, If you have to make a choice from this ones.

I die for my mothercountry/Religion - I die for my family.

What shall you choose. :)

(Just checking)

[The_old_worm]

I would die to protect my family, which goes hand in hand with fighting for my country.  I would die protecting the innocent from murderers.  I would die for justice.

[Acriku]

Another thought by me, brought to you by Skittles - Taste the Rainbow:

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't confessing your sins to be forgiven a little too easy? I mean, you would think an all -powerful God that straightforwardly states that you can't do this would not let you take the easy way out and offer atleast a spanking (ha)? Seems fishy to me.

[evilbaronatreides]

Strange, i just had a confession and i was forced to flog myself with  a cat-o-nine. Confessing seems easy, but to many people it is hard because they are unwilling to divulge in thier sins. Also, i find confessing alot easier than being struck by lightning or being burnt by brimstone.

[jacobdouds]

Yes it does seem easy. "I killed that man" "Okay you can go now."

[Acriku]

But the priest or whatever is compelled not to say anything by the word of God, so what is the danger?

[Edric O]

Acriku, how are my statements about Christianity (the ones you called "verbal force") any different from YOUR statements about atheism? We both think we hold the truth, we both think the other one is wrong.

I said Islam (as a whole) stabs us in the back because it's taking advantage of our present weakness to convert loads of christians who've been disoriented by atheist attacks on their faith. Then again, the Muslims themselves probably don't realise that...

Acriku, the problem with scientists loaded with *real* facts is that they tend to shoot each other when they find out their *facts* were all wrong... It happened over and over again in history. How do you know scientists won't be laughing at this silly "Evolution theory" in 500 years?

Science saves lives? True. But many people also die because of the effects of science. Human developement is an effect of science. Weapons are created by science. You think science is all good? Ask the people of Hiroshima!!

I'd say science took more lives than it saved.

Nema, being an atheist surrounded by christians is no harder than being a christian surrounded by atheists. And just HOW are you surrounded by christians in the UK? I spent 6 months there a few years ago and I didn't manage to find a single christian under 30.

The simple fact that you can explain everything (*cough* yeah right *cough*) without God does not disprove His existence. Also notice that God is NEVER taken into consideration by scientists trying to explain a newly-discovered phenomenon. First they say science *can't* involve religion and then you ask why is God not present in any scientific theories. That's CIRCULAR LOGIC, you know?

[gryphon]

Yep, I agree with that Edric O.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Science helped us alot in the Beginning of the Human race. But now, Products of Science is getting corrupt and missuses the Power of nature.

[gryphon]

I don't think that's entirely correct to say Sardauker-Kirov. Science is science and on it self isn't bad or good. It's the thing we do with that knowledge that makes it right or wrong. And in the early days we just didn't have the science that could "destroy so mutch with so many". But that doesn't mean that science today is being missused towards nature.

:)

[Acriku]

I agree gryph, don't blame science. Blame the humans! (Which has been done numerous times already).

Edric, I thought we were having a discussion, not about who is right but simply about the views of us all, and their rebuttals. And again with the hypocrisy! You say Islam converts all these Christians, taking "advantage" of them, well what the heck do the Christians do? They shove the Bible down people's throat and tell them to believe in it or go to hell. And when was this, because that must have been a very good argument by the athiests to let all those Christians doubt their religion. Maybe they realized the truth? *Shrug*

And the attacks with science would never have been thought of had we not learn about it, and it is us that use it, not science. But then again, if we didn't know some of it, other "Eureka!"s might not have happened, and thus people dying because of that.

And scientists don't tryout the God way of how things happen because that would never be accepted. The community wants FACTS, not controversial matters. And God IS in scientific theories, just that they won't get accepted at all. But then again how can you explain gravity scientifically by saying God created it?

[nemafakei]

"And just HOW are you surrounded by christians in the UK? "

Family. All of them. It's really oppressive. And the integration of chrisianity into things like schools - imagine being asked to pray to Allah in a mosque. At least your common beliefs are that there is one great god who we should worship - I have no common beliefs about gods - so it's a hell of a lot worse (Especially when they let jewish children off).

"You think science is all good? Ask the people of Hiroshima"

Evil people do evil things with anything, be it religion, science, whatever.

"We both think we hold the truth, we both think the other one is wrong."

The whole point of the las 2 pages was to point out that while bot think we are right, science tries to prove it, and refines its understanding of the universe, instead of sitting in a church, saying "I'm right and you're wrong because I say so".

[gryphon]

The same here in Holland. The schools have there own religion, mostly Christianety [ or some split fraction of it ].

And Nema Fakei, liked that last paragraph.

[ do have some small questionmarks, but mostly liked it ;) ]

[The_old_worm]

Edric, the fact that scientists "shoot" each other over contradicting ideas is not a weakness of science it is a redeeming virtue.  At least the scientific community as a whole is open to new theories and forces those people to give legitimate evidence for their theories.  You're right, in 50 years evolution my be considered silly, but at least science actively searches for truth, while the religious sit on their butts claiming "God did it". Nema, you hit the nail on the Head there.

The reason God is never brought into scientific theories is that there is never evidence to indicate he is involved.  Science is not supposed to approach a mystery with any preconceptions (although I admit many scientists do). They should weigh the evidence objectively, look for patterns and make their hypothesis based on that. If God were involved, evidence should lead the scientists in that direction, and if it did, the scientist should accept that data with skeptisism as he or she would any piece of evidence.  Unfortunately, for religion, science tends to find explainations without the need to resort to the supernatural

Science will never be able to explain everything *cough cough*  but the more it explains the less influence God seems to have on our world and universe.  No, this does not disprove him, but gives the image of God twiddling his thumbs with nothing to do.

Wow, You say science has killed more than helped?  Compare life expectancy around the world now to 100 years ago.  Are you really trying to suggest that medicine and technology have had less positive impacts than negative.  You're dreaming.

I think Gryphon said it "science is science, it is neither good nor bad, it just is"  that's exactly right, don't blame science for our stupidity as humans.

[quoudam72]

So are we now talking Marcionism or am I missing something?

[gryphon]

euh, . . . old worm,.... just a warning in your way of thinking. when you say that "science. . ..

[ordos45]

Actually, CHristians are primarily Trinitarian since they worship the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and God.  In Islam Jesus is not the Son of God but a prophet and Muslims only worship Allah.

Did u know 2/3 of the world's population lives in an area where the teaching of Christianity is repressed?

[Acriku]

Did you know that the Church introduced this trinity when they were questioned with the plural form of the word God in the Bible. It's true, a local priest confirmed it, who has a PhD in European history. He also said stuff like they looked more into the Bible and found hints toward it  ::)

[jacobdouds]

The Church makes a lot of stuff up to avoid complications. A lot like the Mormons.

[ordos45]

Which Church?

Btw, I do not trust the Catholic Church.  Too much corruption through the ages, like the time they elected 3 Popes.

[Acriku]

I think it was the Catholic Church, but I'm probably wrong.

[The_old_worm]

gryphon, I agree with you totally.  My intention is not to disprove God.  I just get irritated with God of the Gappers, who believe that if we can't explain it, then it must be God's work.  We can't possibly prove or disprove God, I am just illustrating that the universe does not need him to have the complexity that it has, and this is demonstrated with each new explaination that we make.

Just figuring out that there is a big picture and dispelling with myths to explain the unexplained, is progress.  Even if it is a neverending search for the truth, the search itself is the accomplishment.  At least science actively seeks out truth rather than bowing out to mysteries by stateing "God did it" and rejecting facts simply because they threaten your beliefs.  

Like a child hiding under his blanket in the dark, safe, comfortable, making guesses about what is out there because he is too scared to look for himself, Religion hides under that blanket of lies and guesses.  At least science gives us a tool to step out and face the cold, hard, mind blowing facts of the universe.

[evilbaronatreides]

Of course if we understood these facts, it would be an easier chill to stand. However, I wouldn't really say that Religion hides underneath a blanket of its own disbelief, Religion understands the world, but in a very different manner. We all have different interpretations, as does religion.

I thought that the most popes ever elected was 2, and that was due to politics. I think some Holy Roman emperor (Frederick was it?) wanted Italy (along with the papal states) under his power, but the Fat-ican (pardon me, Vatican) said no. Frederick(?) then created his own "puppet" pope and stationed him in the French city of Avignon. At least thats what i can think of...