Politician shot down

[Anathema]

Pim Fortuyn got shot down about 2 hours ago!

For you people who do not know him, he is a rightist politician who received great criticism because of his vieuws about immigration and about the islam.

I do not at all support his vieuws, but this is disgusting. I haven't been this shocked since 11 september.

He was carried away under a sheet. Though there hasn't been confirmation yet, he's probably dead.

[nemafakei]

A politician in what country?

[nampigai]

I saw on the news that he's now dead, he was a right winged politician in the Netherlands. what's this world becomming

[Terror]

i'm dutch too... and what a horrible action... this is unheard of.... i thought we lived in a democracy but they just kill someone who has different views.... I want to punish the murderer my self  >:(

[Anathema]

I'm glad they caught the murderer. This is ridiculous. You can say about Fortuyn what you want but he did represent a lot of people and now those people have been silenced. That goes against anything democracy stands for.

Frankly I never expected this would happen here in the Netherlands. I thought it was mor of a USA thing. I guess this proves it can happen everywhere.

[gryphon]

He, I wanted to post this myself.

I heard the news while I was giving a class at my uni.

But they didn't caught the persone responsible jet, some arrest have been made but the local police isn't saying mutch at the moment. Plans are I'll be in The Hague myself tomorrow.

People always fear new things, they fear change. Not related if that change is indead good or bad. Change on itself is frighting. And they will give anything to stop that, to keep what they find "trusted" and comforting.

[Timenn]

I'm shocked too, I was totally against him, but this goes to far. You don't shoot someone for his opinion.

I never suspected this would happen in the Netherlands. It is for the first time a politcian was killed.

It is confirmed now that he is dead. And the police arrested a suspect. But as gryphon said, they haven't release anything yet.

[gryphon]

For the "not-Dutch" visitors, Professor Pim Fortuyn was besides a candidate for the upcomming elections [ 15th of this month ] a counsil member of the city of Rotterdam. One of the main [ economical ] cities in The Netherlands. He [ and his party ] got elected for that position just some months ago now.

There have been some condolances sites but most of them arn't reponding propperly any more due to masieve requests to them, I got a condolanses message on one of them myself but the message list isn't updated anymore due to the immens number of massages.

Anyway, the site of his party that might be "worth" looking at

http://www.leefbaarrotterdam.nl/

some pictures at [ sites are in the Dutch language ]

www.nos.nl

www.rotterdamsdagblad.nl

www.detelegraaf.nl

[Nyarlathotep]

What happened is nuts and outragous. Have to admit I didn't like his views on things, but as far as I can remember, we have a freedom of speech. What I did like about him was the way he used "simplified" words, instead of all the politic garbage of words the rest uses (hence the fact he was popular amongst young people).

It's about time politicians are going to take action and increase the penalty for breaking the law (one of Pim's points). I mean, a couple of days ago I read that a guy killed a 10 year old, due to speeding. His punishment: 60 hours of comunity labour and he lost his driving license for a year.. :O

Another example, an opera singer drives his car, while he had to much to drink.. He kills a woman (mother of two kids).. Penalty Several hours of comunity labour.. :O Our law is a joke, that's why more and more violence is happening..

This guy that killed Pim won't get any more then 10 years.. Lawyers will probably throw in insanity, so maybe he gets out after 7 years.. Try the same in the states.. ::)

[ken124578]

(no comment on that)

i wasn't an supporter of anyone (i'm Dutch too) but he was a special guy, like nyarlothep said he used simplified words and not some politician garbage.

:'(

[Anathema]

Nyar that would be difficult. You could raise the maximum penalty for certain acts, but it is up to the judge to determin how heavy the penalty will be. If somebody causes an accident when he is drunk, nothing will stop a judge to give only community labour :(.

I'm really going to miss those political debates with Fortuyn. Guess they won't be as interesting anymore.

[Caid Ivik]

Oh, a Jan Slota-like politician? What a loss...

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Holland gets too many immigrant's from other country. I don't have a problem against them.  But its getting out of hand here in holland.

All my friend's were so pissed that they started fight's on street.

[gryphon]

Sardaukar-Kirov, don't tell me you are Dutch to

[Terror]

wtf? who said that.... i didn't agree with his visions... but he was no way like Le Pen.. He was not THAT ultra right. and he did do a good thing in this country... he made the dutch ppl interested in politics again... and i think that is a great thing.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Yes i am dutch, my Friend lives in hilversum and he is also my neighbor and "cousin"

I am Suprised that the other country's call fortuin a Extremist. They should take a look on themselves.

They are not the one's getting all the immigrant's.

[Anathema]

He wasn't really a racist, he just hated the Islam. Because the Islam is against homosexuals, and Fortuyn was a homosexual. He was harsh on immigrants, but not really a racist.

[gryphon]

The foreign papers like "The Times" and "Le Monde" had articles about Pim Fortuyn.

He wasn't against the Islam, aslong as they practice their religion in there culture, there country. His statement was that when you live in The Netherlands you should at least learn our language, history and act on values we have in our country and culture.

I heard that Holland is one of the most densly populated country's in the world. Combine that with the amount of refugies that come to our country evry year . . . . . .

Some dutch newspaperes of today also had some shocking pictures on the front page. The only that showed a medium close up of his body on the ground. Other newspagers had pictures of him when he was still alive, a bit more sivelised if you ask me ::)

For members in the USoA [ and some other country's ], you can buy "De Telegraaf" in almost all the big cities. [ atleast, I could ] The picture I mean is on the front page.

[Marcel71]

Earthnuker: "He wasn't really a racist, he just hated the Islam. " hmmm, sounds to me like racist.....

Sardauker-Kirov: "They are not the one's getting all the immigrant's."

Germany has WAY MUCH more immigrants then Holland. And you also sound a bit racist to me!!!

Stated the FACT he was shot by a WHITE DUTCHMAN !!!!

Sardauker-Kirov: "All my friend's were so pissed that they started fight's on street."

Nice friends you got. Who did they fight?? (eachother?)

I don't agree he was killed, i was not standing behind his ideas. But politics were interesting.

Who believes it's a complot by higher powers, and not just a one man action? (i do)

[OnAMission]

What about the UK. Immigrants are piling in here like (think of a suitable example). I not a far right extremist but things are going mad. A lot of them can't read or write and so can't get jobs so they end up living off benefit payments which the tax payers pay for. Nothing against other races but this is slightl annoying.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

1: Fortuin only hated the Extremistic Islam and that has nothing to do with racism. But Islam is not the only religion that has Extremistic believers and kill other people because you don't believe in god.

2: And tell me what has fact's to do with racism? Because i said Immigrant's are flocking to holland, get your theory straightend out before you announce something. And another thing, Germany only receives a small portion of the immigrant's from other country's.

3: Ignored the childish "remark"

In conclusion. I'm not a racist, my cousin and some of my other friend's are racists.

[nampigai]

uhm Kirov do you believe that the Netherlands are the only country that have problems with emigrants? If so why do you think that almost every European country is seeking to the right radical parties?

[Nyarlathotep]

Nyar that would be difficult. You could raise the maximum penalty for certain acts, but it is up to the judge to determin how heavy the penalty will be. If somebody causes an accident when he is drunk, nothing will stop a judge to give only community labour :(.

I'm really going to miss those political debates with Fortuyn. Guess they won't be as interesting anymore.

Earth, what I meant was they need to increase the minimum punishment (a judge has to stick to that).

I mean.. comon, when you're speeding and kill someone (in my opinion recless driving) you should be punished severe ! If the punish system stays the way it is, there will only be more violence/criminal acts.

If you kill someone, you should be punished for life, not just comunity labour (I find it sickening sad to be honest) !!

Same goes for rape for example.. I once experienced it from up close. Two guys attacking a girl.. I'm not saying I'm a sport school guy, but when I saw that, all went black. 3 other guys had to drag me away from those guys (one ended up in the hospital and I had to pay for his medical bill *points vinger to his head* !!). The other guys was arrested, but he was leaving the police station BEFORE I did (the girl did file charges against them and they needed my statement) !!

It made me so mad.. If I wouldn't have been there, they would have destroyed her life forever.. Believe me.. whoever does the same to my daughter WILL pay with his life or for life (hurt him so bad he ends up in a wheelchair).. The Dutch law (punishment) is a complete joke and I WILL take rights in my own hand if someone touches my family..

I know I'm not the only one who thinks this way and it's due to Dutch politics that this happens.. Pim was finally someone who would (try) change this..

About immagrants... no problem, as longs as they have a job and are willing to adapt to Dutch standards (meaning at least learn how to speak Dutch).

I lost my job and went for a unemployment payment. I sat 3 there for 3 hours. An immigrant took place behind me and he was back on the street with an unemployment payment, while I couldn't receive it !! I do not blame the immigrant, but Dutch law and I can understand people wanted to vote for Pim (no, dispite my experiences I wouldn't)..

Again, Dutch law is sickening sad and a joke..

Btw, the partabout the immigrant, it's not meant as an offence, it's a blame towards Dutch law..

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Tell me about it, whole holland is going to bits. All what i know is that the People is tired of it, if this is gonna continue a revolution is gonna break out in holland.

I can Expect reply's to this message.

"And how are they gonna start a revolution" (No doubt)

"They are not able to start it"

Think what you want about the chance of "possibility" of this event.

[nampigai]

What I fear is not Islam but the wave of right winged politicians, it seems as though we learned nothing whatsoever from the second world war. I know we live in democracy (for the time being) and that we have freedom of speech etc. However I believe that the freedom of speech should be taken upto revidation, atleast in Germany Nazi parties are illegal, other countries could learn something about that.

I believe that right and left winged parties with extreme political agendas should be taken more seriuos and maybe some of them should be illegalized. It may not be democratic however I see them as a threat towards democracy.