Creating a board game based on RTS games.

[X3M]

 

Well, there is a time and place for any thing any where. This includes the fact that I am rewriting my manual over and over .... and over ...

 

A (the first) part of my manual. Rewritten due to severe play testing.

With a primary rule, it has to stand alone and has to be understood alone.

 

Please let me know if a part contains errors in writing?

If you would have explained it differently?

Contains something that you don't understand?

 

The box should contain

• 1 Main Manual
• 1 Units Manual; The Beginning.
• 1 Event Cards Manual; The Beginning.
• 6 Money Trackers.
• 6 Turn order cards. 1 to 6.
• 24 normal dice.
• 72 Whiteboard information cards.
  • To be used for tracking of Health, XP, Upgrades and Resources (gathering and remaining)
• 144 Player Cards.
  • 24 for each player color.
  • This box should contain Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue and Purple.
• 36 Action Cards.
  •  6 for each player.
  • And 18 additional in case of upgrades.
• One big hexagon board.
  • Additional height regions.
• 3 Times the Number indicated on the Statistics Card for each unit.
  • Plus 3 reserve.
  • In case of a total of 36 or more, 6 reserves.
• 9 Times Group of units when the Number is above 6.
  • Plus 1 reserve Group.
• A deck of Event Cards.

 

Game summary

 

In general:

A player has to make tactical and strategic decisions for winning. Players can move their forces around, attack other forces and train their own forces into elite units by fighting. There is also a big part of luck. But through gaining experience by fighting, this luck can be slowly turned into success certainty. However, players should always be wary that the Event Cards can tilt the scales in favor for enemies in a blink of an eye. The box contains material for 3 players. But up to 6 players can play the game with mercenary rules.

 

                A basic game:

In a basic game, there are 2 to 3 players. Each has full access to all the available units. The maximum of units allowed for each player is indicated on the statistics list. And is used for any game.

They often start out with a Construction Yard. Enough money for starting resource gathering. And a starting force that they may customize themselves.

 

The game ends when 1 player dies.

 

With 3 players, it is the remaining player with the highest score that wins.
Player Score is the sum of:

• The worth of all that is still standing on the board. No matter how much it is damaged. Multiplied by 6.
• All the remaining money that a player effectively owns, multiplied by 2.
• All the resources that are currently carried by units.
• All the XP that is spend or could have been spend: This requires calculating the upgrades backwards for knowing the total XP that each unit owns.

 

Resources that could have been gathered, but are still in the resource pools, do not count towards the score. Any player could have gathered those.

 

                A Mercenary game:

With Mercenaries, each of the players can donate money to these Mercenaries. Then the Mercenaries can choose to fight for them. Players however need to keep donating money if they want to keep their mercenary obedient. And Mercenaries may never return the money that they received.

 

Mercenaries can only produce units. They cannot gather money themselves. Nor can they construct additional structures during the game.

Before a game starts, Mercenaries can only construct a base on beforehand, this may include defensive structures. But they need to keep in mind that they need to produce units as well. Because they will start without units or have a small force just as big as the other players starting force.

 

The players get access to only 2/3th of all the units. The Mercenaries get access to only 1/3th of all the units. The units are put in 2 separate piles now. And should be returned to the correct pile after dying. This means that with players have to fight over buying units.

 

When fighting over units occurs: players need to check if it is indeed possible to produce these units for all the players in question. Then the number of units is simply divided amongst them. What remains is returned to the pile. However, the money that should be spend on the last units is frozen for that round for all the players.

 

If a situation arises that one player cannot buy the units in question, the other player needs to grab his/her chance in buying them while not receiving resistance. That is the only way to get the majority of units.

If a situation arises that several players want several different units. While they have to fight over them. They may come to an agreement and trade

 

The game ends when 1 player or 1 mercenary dies.

 

Both the player with the highest score amongst the players, and the mercenary with the highest score amongst the mercenaries, wins.

These scores are calculated in the same way. However, the exception is that Mercenaries cannot get a higher score by having a lot of saved up money. This way, a last minute donation by another player is of no use.

 

                A Chaos game:

Instead of 3 players, there are 4 or more. Each of the players has now a limited access to units as if they are Mercenaries. Thus they need to be lucky for buying the last one. Once again, only the number indicated on the statistics list is the maximum for each player.

 

The game ends when 1 player dies. And the total score is calculated in the same way as in a basic game.

                Additional rules to any game:

• Players could choose to a “last man standing” game. Where the game only ends when one player remains. If all players are unable to move, the winner can still be decided by calculating the score.
• Players could choose not to fight over units. But simply divided the piles accordingly. And leaving out what cannot be divided. Additionally to this, players could come to an agreement that one player chooses one unit extra, while another player has the same worth of units of other types.
• Players could choose to have a sudden death. Which means that each unit that dies, cannot be rebuild any more.

[X3M]

No one cares about the manual. O well. :)

 

I have been playing around, so... here are some pictures.

 

2 Possible tool pictures:

 

Some possible designs including the camo layers:

 

And another version for the light blue one using the second tool:

But the result was kinda disappointing to me.

 

Let me know what you think.

- I am kinda searching for a 6th camo colour.

- And If any one of you knows how to make different shades for the same pictures. Please let me know. I could apply it to the camo and then make a more of a 3D picture form top. It would also possible reduce the chaos caused by the camo. You can't tell shape all the time, right?

 

I am planning to use this same technique for all my other units.

[X3M]

2 versions with Blood!!!:

Some static texture :) :

A hot one:

 

And I bet I am now creeping people out with the creeper skin:

 

 

Ok, with all these posted, I want 6 factions in the future. Which are the best 6. Or do you have a suggestion for me?

 

Let's not forget the one where it all started with:

[MrFlibble]

Some of these colour schemes look very weird. Personally I'd pick (sorry I can't seem to properly quote your posts so that the pictures are displayed in the quote so I'll just name them in the order of appearance) #3, #4, #6, #8, #12 and #13 if you need all six.

Note: I'm counting all images in both your posts. Hope this is not very confusing.

[X3M]

Thanks for reacting.

 

For me it is logical following the numbers. Although, calling colour would have been easier for any one here. :D.

I did some more testing before I saw your post.

I had some advice already regarding making some lines thicker. It safes detail of the unit.

 

I upgraded the first tool. Thicker lines where needed.

Discarded the second tool.

I recreated some of them again. #3 and #4 did make it to the second round. I think anyone likes them.

#6 and #8 are the same theme colour, blue. I am going for #6, since the second tool has been discarded.

#12 and #13 also made it to the second round, with some adjustments.

I have done a better version for the blood camo and the static camo as well.

I also introduced a grey scale camo. And a brown one.

 

If correct, I am able to have 10 factions in the future.

But for now, I need exactly 3 for the first game. I have given them letters.

I would like any one to vote for 3 colours up

And 4 colours down

 

A

 

B

 

C

 

D

 

E

 

F

 

G

 

H

 

ij

 

K

 

 

There is only one more lesson for me to be learned. But at this stage, perhaps it isn't necessary.

Another note: Each picture will be printed on a 20 x 20 mm or 25 x 25 mm card, with dpi 1200. Meaning that detail will be visible plenty.

 

I am starting to have fun again with designing. :)

 

Edit:

Updated version G on advice. Well, the dark red as secondary colour indeed was not shit. Nor was the brown. Thus I copied one of the camo colours for using as secondary colour.

[X3M]

Votes until now:

A = 2

B = 1

C = 0 ( 2 votes )

D = 1

E = - 1

F = - 2

G = 1

H = 1

ij = 1

K = 1

A total of 13 up/down votes.

 

If you want to vote, please PM me with the votes. I said 3 up, 4 down. But it doesn't really matter any more. Most votes count ^^.

F is the best version in that class. But I think it is going down any way. Even I hate it :D.

A, G and K are classics apparently.

[Nyerguds]

fuck yea rainbow coloured eye stabbing pink tank xD

[X3M]

fuck yea rainbow coloured eye stabbing pink tank xD

Should I leave it in just for the sake of "F*ck it" anyway? :)

(F is for Fail :) )

Or is it an up vote from you?

:)

[Nyerguds]

The actual pink one is pretty okay, but the eye stabbing Missingno-inspired rainbow monstrosity? Man, that thing doesn't even need a gun to kill its enemies. Get rid of it xD

[X3M]

Gathering opinions about something else:

 

2 months ago we had this, one wall protects an entire army. There was no logic in that.

So my buddies and I discarded this and changed this into:

 

The Support line cannot be targeted when the Meat line is equal or bigger in size.

Thus any thing behind the meat line is protected until the meat line becomes to small.

 

However, for now we tried 2 ways during play tests.

When the Meat line has become to small:

1. The attacker chooses 1 target of the support line that isn't protected any more.
2. The defender chooses 1 target of the support line that isn't protected any more.

There is a big difference in the 2 rules.

Now it is a fact that the Assault Tank can aim for any Grenadier in the Meat line.

 

If I where to use option 1. The attacker could weaken the entire Support line, yet keeping all alive in the support line. With only Grenadiers as targets, this does not work well. but with several different choices in other games, it can be abused in a bad way?

 

With option 2 the question arises if this has to be done on before hand? Thus letting the defender choose who is going to be in the flanks.

 

I asked the same on the BGDF. But they seem to think that it is more important to get rid of usage of walls in the game.

[X3M]

As said before, nvm the previous post.

Abusing should not be allowed to the max. Thus it is choice 1. The attacker chooses, it can be one victim to the death or several for weakening health in general.

And new strategies are born as well :).

[X3M]

Working on the maps constantly.

Since Art is my worst aspect of game designing, I have decided to watch video's etc. on this matter.

 

2 steps forward, one step back.

 

It is soooo hard to get the right set of textures. But my Grass/Forest combination has showed me that the technique that I am using is well worth the effort. The biggest problem is the right set of pictures where the 5 main textures are needed. Water/Grass/Sand/Rocks or Mountain/Forest terrain is what I need. (I will make my own mixes ;) )

Of course if the set of textures has some other terrain as well, this will be welcomed. But those 5 are the basis.

Then again, if only 3 or 4 are in the set. I can leap further. For each additional terrain texture, I need to search for one that fits all the ones that are being used.

 

3.44 MB + 3.88 MB for the 2 pictures. This one is going into the bin once I reach my quota that is allowed on this forum. So I guess I keep it up here for about a year?... Maybe?...

 

 

Please, flame/comment/advice/suggest

or whatsoever on these pictures.

 

It will help me getting better in designing.

[X3M]

Updates? Well yes. Although, life/work has really taken a lot of time from me.

 

These are the Events of the last 9 months:

 

Cutting every where in the rules when possible. Trying to make the game as easy as possible.

 

- Changed the map making technique in the last posts. Hexagons have only 1 terrain type. Mixes are used as well. With 7 types of terrain, I can make 28 in total. The basic terrains are now: Water/Desert/Grass/Hard ground/Snow/Forrest/Rock. Still with 1/6th as a minimum of space. The centre only contains numbers for terrain height, no more indication colours. The ridges(walls/rivers) are also still there. First I make a basic map with the 28 basic colours. These colours are mapped by me in what numbers they contain. 128 red/128 blue/0 green/ and those other value's. Then I replace them one by one with a texture. This takes time if a lot of different colours are used. Of course I still have the 19 hexagons/A4. However, I also plan on big maps and simply get the 19Hex pieces ready. I can simply copy existing maps and use my own textures.

 

- Changed the rule for experience put in damage. Instead of increased value's for 1D6. You now roll 1D6 to determine if you may roll an extra D6 for damage. This means that there is one table less for players to remember.

 

- Players that I know like to design their own armies. For the pieces however, I have decided to use black/white symbols for basics. This happened recently, so I am still searching for usable pictures. Google is once again not a good friend. Most are to small. Others have anti copy all over the place. These symbols are 20 x 20 mm. And one of them is placed on an unit statistics card. All players have the same symbols. Some players share a card. Other players might have an unique unit. No more tables for reference. Actually, you place the cards on a table as reference. To separate the symbols by player however, I also introduced colour references. This will limit players in the number of squads on the board. They are 25 x 25 mm.

 

- I got my hands on unused plastic white bucket lids and permanent markers. The combination is superb! You can easily whipe off the information with a piece of cloth. I cut out pieces of 20 x 20 mm. They are like little whiteboard cards. Now health, experience, upgrades and number of units can be tracked. H, X, H+, S, R, D, N. It rarely happens that all 7 are on the little cards.

 

- I got more plastification news. I got my hands on a plastification machine.

This means that I don't only have paper pieces any more. That normally would be pasted on card board. No, this time I plastificate a print. And then I cut out the pieces. Yes! I can cut them with ease, and the plastic remains in place. The weight is now less than 1/4th. But the thickness is only 1/8th. This means that the density is somewhat 2 times higher. Somehow, wind has way less effect in blowing them away. It also requires way less work for the making, my cutting is in half and less trouble some. No more drawing lines on cardboard. No more pre cutting the cardboard.

And the durability is increased about a ten fold. Huray for this!. I started with the pieces. However, maps will follow. I expect here even a faster job, once again, no cardboard needed. But perhaps I will paste the plastic on the cardboard for a very nice GameBoard. :)

 

Should I post photo's?

[D2k Sardaukar]

I bought a while ago a Silhouette Portrait and it accepts vectors images from inkscape after I save them to .dxf format. Works quite nice and not so expensive. I think it can also cut the plastic coating (0.8mm max thickness) (A4 size). Silhouette also has a newer model which can cut even more and emboss. With this machine you can cut out a lot of cards in no time. It also has printed paper alignment feature to cut out paper with printed stuff on it. Perhaps you can check it out? I can also do some preview-cuts if you would like to.

[X3M]

 

Ah, Hell Yeah!!

I mean, that looks nice. :)

You could try it out on one of the old map segments from post 211.

I found them to much work. But they are sure work that I kept.

Now, the big question here is, what happens when you cut them?

I mean, with plastification, there is a risk that the sheet starts to curl/bend due to fast cooling down or not paying attention to when and where to support the plastic. Even with 20 x 20 mm, I had 4 pieces that where a fail due to bending.

In the given video, you also see the paper curling with the flower. I can't have that with things that have to remain as flat as possible.

Will this curling be worse or less with a plastic layer?

 

Not to mention, will it cut in the right place?

 

To bad that it is 0,8 mm. The bucket lids are of harder material and 0,9 mm.

It is those for that I truly seek a faster and better way. And it is those that don't contain pictures. However, I don't need much, they are to be recycled :)

[D2k Sardaukar]

A newer version should be able to cut thicker stuff, but it's also more expensive.

 

Kinda funny is that 99% of the users of the machine are craft and paper type of woman. :P

 

How large should the tiles be? Do you have the vector file?  Some tiles look like they won´t fit properly with other tiles, I presume the tiles are played out randomly each game round?

 

Edit: And to be totally honest. I think it's great that you are designing your own game and sharing it, but I don't think this is the right place. You deserve more feedback which you don't get here. Do you also share the progress on a more boardgames focused forum?

Edited August 7, 2015 by D2k Sardaukar

[X3M]

I post here since I consider this is to be my "home".

 

Well, I could go ask on BGDF if any one there knows a good cutter. Most people over there are men. And they do make a lot of games.

It is also the place where I had "more" feedback. However, the posting of pictures is super limited. You can only do so much... and you cannot delete them any more. I had a big leap when I started posting there. But it had a sudden stop.

 

Those tiles in #211 are the ones that are still used in a way. However, the nice curves of the terrain that you see was discarded last year. The several levels of mixture where discarded as well. (Right before my big pause called life)

The newer generation of tiles clearly will fit together in a way like how they are build up them selves.

In a way, I have returned to maps like those in #130, #139 and #140. However, I still use the tiles of 19 hexagons. And I even am planning in rebuilding these maps with segments. The edges are going to be rocks.

The plus side, there is going to be altitude this time :) .

Yes, some times the tiles are played out randomly. But mostly, we plan on big maps to be build with the tiles.

 

I am happy that at least 1 reacts. You can find me on BGDF. Same picture, same crappy TLDR posts :D

[X3M]

Plastification.

 

20 x 20 mm, ok.

25 x 25 mm, ok.

 

A tile of 19 hexagons that has a diameter of 210 mm, not ok, not ok at all !!! It bends not matter how hard I try to get it flat. And after cutting it out, the bending can get worse too.

I also tried cutting out the tile. Then plastificate it, then cut it out again. I do not recommend this either. There is still a bend.

 

Thus map tiles, no plastification. Which is a bummer.

 

---

 

I tried stuff with the bucket lids on big scale too.

 

The bucket lids are just a tad too small as basis for my tiles as well. Cutting out at the edges is proven to be problematic immediately. I could cut out 2 halves or 3 thirds and put them together. But seeing as how the 20 x 20 mm pieces are a problem to putting together, I decided to not even try this out. Further more, the cut out bucket lid also bends. Less though, but it bends. My best chances with the board itself will be cardboard. I simply have to paste the tiles on cardboard and cut them out again. 'In the process I sacrificed one of my blank tiles, he will be missed'.

[D2k Sardaukar]

Most boardgames have carton map tiles, perhaps because of this reason or perhaps just the cheapest.

 

Making the pieces goes rather fast on the machine, the biggest time consumption is designing the cut layout. My layout was not perfect some edges are not nice and perhaps adding a border for errors is also useful.

 

Here is an image of a cut test with not very thick paper. (200g it says on package... if that means something)

 

Edit: If you are gonna make a lot of the same shapes, perhaps a simple cutter-press-machine is useful? Like a dough-cutter under a big press with large lever.

[X3M]

That tile was meant to remain together :)

But thanks for showing.

O well, at least you now know how hard it is to get it working properly.

And having cut those hexagons, I think you know now why I switched back to simple maps.

 

Ehm, do me a favour? And could you measure up the dimensions of one of those hexagons? Is it exactly 4 cm for you as well?

 

The error that you get with cutting. It is called the bleeding zone. Most board games are printed as one big map. Then you only have 4 or 6 sides that bleed.

Even with professionals it goes wrong. Please take a look at this board and notice the difference in the red lines around the board.

Yes, it is an official. But by the looks of it, they only screwed up some tests. But this proves that manual cutting is often better.

 

200 grams/m² means a lot to me. it is 2,5 times as heavy as normal paper. I am going to stop by to a shop in my town next week. To see if they have cardboard that is very thick. I will be searching for something that is at least 400 grams/m². Since I am going to put pieces together.

Perhaps they also have some proper cutting tools.

 

---

 

Meanwhile, I discovered an easy and fast way of combining 2 pictures into 1 mix. I discovered it just by accident. And am currently redoing all the mix regions.

[D2k Sardaukar]

It was 2,5 cm. I resized the image of the map to fit A5 (the size of my paper).    4cm sounds like better size to handle and see all the details.  Bleeding zone is a good idea.

 

Making the maps simple just because it saves you some time in production is not the greatest design philosophy.

[X3M]

Unfortunately, for having a good bleeding zone, you need to have simpler designs in your pieces/board/cards.

You see it every where, most extreme example: Settlers of Catan.

Not only a simple design, where 2 regions never fit together. They also have a bleeding zone. And to make matters worse, watch the shore lines. They are all shorelines without taking into regard, the corners. Google it and you see all the pictures showing these hexagons with... brown boarders. yuk.

 

I suck at being an artist. Even though you have seen previous stuff.

Ok. Another OLD piece that is mine.

 

Clearly my art skills was top notch at that moment. (Comedy Show Laughter)

But maps like these are impractical for bigger pictures. You can't combine these at all to the ones that you already printed, for a bigger play field that is.

[X3M]

 

Each of these are normally about 1800 x 1650. And have much more detail. However, at first glance, do you think players can tell the difference? Or should I make an explicit manual for terrain?

 

[D2k Sardaukar]

I'm afraid that if you want this game to go big (mass production), those bleeding zones are going to be needed. Why not work them into your during design now? 

 

To be honest, again :), I have not read enough to understand how your game exactly works, but in my board game experience a map that is random is more fun. This is because people who played the game before don't have an advantage by knowing the good spots. Keeps the game more fair.

 

I think it's a better idea to keep the terrain types (and so also colours) rather simple and low. Like just 4 or 5 colours/terrains. Too much will confuse starting players. Keep in mind that most people can only remember a few things in short memory. Dune 2000 also only has 4-5 terrain types (sand, wobbly sand, rock, spice and concrete (ignoring ice))

For the real game die-hards you can make expansions packs with more colours, terrain etc. I would suggest keeping the base game simple (but challenging of course) and use expansion packs to make it harder. Of course this completely depends on your focus group. I can imagine there are also board game players out there that love massive amount of rules, but they are a minority.

 

Edit: I'm also kinda a big fan of changing map during gameplay. Kinda like in Dune 2000 you can still discover new terrain during gameplay and so also ways to attack.

Perhaps in corporate an event card that makes the map bigger or smaller by removing or adding tiles.

[X3M]

Well, I am not planning on mass producing stuff. This game is more or less for elite players that rather play a game for strategy than for graphics.

 

Why tiles?

I don't have the time nor the material to make a modular map where every hexagon is placed separately and stays in place. Therefore I decided on tiles with 19 hexagons. They still fit into each other. And I can make theme tiles (like a spire or a beach). Moreover, I needed to find a way to have altitude without trouble. Now, with a modular map, this could be done. But then again, I don't have the material for that.

 

Why 7 colours (28 including the mixes)

I used to have 5 colours. And I used to have it simple. However, I wanted to have maps where you need to cramp units through canyons and other choke-point terrain. Grass/Sand/Forest/Rocks/Water. With the rules in mind, I wanted to create places where only a few infantry would fit through. With the said rules back then, 900 was a minimum. I wanted to have at least 600 as minimum (if possible, even less)

These 5 also didn't give an complete picture. Ranging from 0 to 3600 in space and 0 to 6 accuracy. I needed to combine terrain in several stages. You have seen the crappy pictures where tree's could be turned on/off, just like rocks etc. And we started counting the rocks -.-

 

Now for having a complete set and 600 as minimum. I introduced Snow and Hard Ground. And by using altitude, I can even reduce the movement all down to 100.

 

I could go back to 5 colours though (I keep 7, but it won't be 28). There is a blue print on my computer to be using hexagons with sub hexagons. The sub hexagons also could offer ridge effects. But also a reduction in terrain. Then again, we would start counting. And accuracy is only by 1 to 6. The reason that I am not using these is because there is a lot of confusion for players. So I decided back then on having 1 hexagon to have 1 colour. And that 1 colour would be having a number of space and accuracy. For movement and altitude, ridges and numbers are used.

 

The following are some example tiles. Of course I am uncertain about some textures. But this gives you a general idea of the game map. These 3 can be combined in a sense.

 

 

The Beach is part of a bigger map that fits nicely together. The other 2 are extreme examples, only to be used as a theme.

 

If you have skill with graphics. If you know of an easy way to make the ridges more natural, this would help me a lot. But I have yet not find such a way to make it "automatic". That sandy island was an attempt of mine. But clearly that didn't work.