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Creating a board game based on RTS games.

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you seem to be pouring your life into i have been watching this project from the begginning. nyc job.

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My major problem is to make it understandable, what I do here.

My second problem is to make it understandable enough so that people can play the game.

There are not much people who actually can play this game at this moment. There are 4 others now. I am happy that most of them are positive about it. And give me advice.

The one who is negative about it, lost all the time because he didn't apply micro tactics. It's very important in this game.

For all I know, it's a board game for nerds then who are willing to think like a chess player. But that's ok ^^.

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I played risk 20 years ago when I was 9.
Risk is a very easy game to understand compared to the game I have created now.
Risk bores me these days.

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true... actually i never could try risk as when i can buy it wont be avail else will be gleemin in the shelf...

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anyways best of luck... will be waiting...

If you have some dice, pen, coloured paper and scissors.

And are willing to try something.

I can PM you with something to start with.

I know that I have posted something here in the past. But I deleted it back then.


And again today at 29-1-2013 22:48.

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A small update:


Since everyone had talks about tanks crushing infantry. I thought to take a look at it again:


So I did, and I have reached a conclusion.

But god forbid posting it here. :D

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I checked many board games already, including warcraft and starcraft. They aren't really RTS, they are simply based on RTS. And there is a lot of gamble in those games too. (No one likes the starcraft game anyway)
However, those other 2 will be looked at as well.Maybe they give me some new idea's.
Reinventing the wheel is not the case here. I have something new that gets new additions in the rules so now and then. (Just like Magic) And thus I post something here.
The game was completed in its "new printed" version 2 years ago. And currently I have warred several rounds, most against myself.
For better map printouts, I started using the Ogre Map editor. For units I still use the pictures from RTS games sidebar icons. Just like the NOD buggy in the beginning of this thread.
Here's the Dune2 section:





I checked Gears of War and ASL.

ASL is actually one that comes closer to my game. And I have heard good stuff about it.

But if you want to have an even better idea: Axis and Allies is currently the game that has 2 systems that I also use. The "which unit goes first in shooting system" and the "which unit dies first system". Even though I handle this a bit differently.

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Sometimes a player blocks 1 region completely with a pile of 120 "wooden fence"s (smallest game piece). Their function is to block movement and incoming projectiles. Just a couple can shift a battle completely. But non the less, if 120 are allowed, then 120 are placed. And 1 entrance to the base will be completely sealed of. Only high anti infantry weapons can do the trick.


That's right, 120 units in 1 region. It kinda looks like this:


But about 4 times higher. They are 20 x 30 x 1. So the pile is 2 x 3 x 12 cm. Easy for tumbling. Luckily the fields are hexagons with a diameter of 12, so a lot of piles can fit in.


If I want to change cards into miniature figures. Then I need to think of something new. Yet I need to keep the rules intact and the usage of these walls.


Possible solution?:

I was thinking about counters, but each wooden fence has 6 health. So a total health counter could do the trick for the entire pile (720 health, or as counter a 10 sided clip with the numbers 1+2+4+8+15+30+60+120+240+240). Yet when you want to place units in between the walls before a battle starts, you need to split the counter up in to 2 or more. And what if someone is building up the pile? For every attack that is received, a new counter needs to be added for pointing out the damaged walls. This means that for every wall, there is 1 counter.


I might as well keep the cards for the walls or change the rules into building up health instead of tracking these units each as 1.

Apparently I have no good solution for changing into miniatures regarding the walls. Suggestions are welcome.



During my search for possible mixed terrain pictures. I came across this:



They are indeed inspiring. :) And I wish them the best of luck with going public with their board game.

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Yes, I have some updates. Working on my manual lately. Fixing grammatical errors, changing rules. Rereading refines.


Pile O cards problem:

I fixed my pile of "wall" cards with mutli unit replacements. 12 groups of 10 can be placed now instead of 120 separate cards. Just like in Axis and Allies. The only difference is that you can add more damage to 1 group of walls, 60 Health on the group. As soon as a player wants to hide within these walls. The group of walls needs to be replaced by the basic, still living walls.


Pile O Experience problem:

I fixed my experience on units. Previously, you needed the XP to remain on the unit and add Ranking Permanents to these units. With each RankingPermanent your unit would have more Health and more Damage. But a lot of recalculating each round was needed. And you would get another pile of cards on just 1 unit. Now that it has been fixed, spending XP is easier. And you can spend XP on 4 different statistics. Health, Damage, Speed and Range can all be adjusted separately. For the Health and Damage, I also have created 6-Health and 6-Damage Permanents which indicate a new level of XP spending. For range and speed, this was not needed. If an unit has a lot of range, then the speed upgrade will cost more XP. If an unit has a lot of speed, then the range upgrade will cost more XP. For Health and Damage, the Armour and Damage type indicate the amount of XP needed.

Killing your own units is allowed. But not recommended since the bonuses are at best a +16,7%.

The exponential effects when statistics are combined is what bugs me the most during the XP balancing. There for Range and Speed Permanents cost a lot more then they should cost. The map itself is also limited in size, so cheap XP spending on Range and Speed would mean overkill. I need to rethink this though.


However, now that the pile of experience is gone, piles of Permanents take their place. And the Ranking Permanents (Bronze, Silver, Gold stars) can be thrown away (in a box since I might need them in the future again).


If an unit has a secondary or tertiary weapon, then for those Damage and Range Permanents, I need to add a 2 and 3 Permanent to be placed on top.


The Experience is complex but understandable now. But during most combat, only surviving units (mostly support units) will survive. They will receive mostly Speed and Damage Permanents and thus the game speed is increased.


Pile O Event Cards:

I modified the rules on/for them for better understanding. These come the closest to the game Magic. Yet I am unsure to put the text on the card itself or only the name. And then add a little Event Card manual to the big manual. There will be a lot of hurting other players with these. Some "positive" cards might even be used as a weapon by rewarding enemy units. :). Here is an example:

15 Range Permanent:

The selected unit has 1 more range for the entire game. This unit also fire’s later according to the rules. So this card can be put to good use on the enemy as well. This card may be played anytime. Place a Range Permanent on this unit and place the card back under in the deck.

There is a section in the rules regarding abusing :)


Unit statistics:

For each unit, I am planning on creating a unit statistics card. This card is great to have, but also serves a purpose in certain game modes. It contains all the statistics and the first 3(?) XP costs for each of the 4 mentioned statistic that can be increased. But I still wonder on how to design these cards. I already know what to put on them. But some units require more space if they have 2 or more weapons. I think I will keep the maximum on 3 different weapons. Which might include crushing infantry :).


Vision issues:

I have rewritten the rules regarding the chance of projectiles reaching destination. This chance is depending on the regions that the projectiles cross. And I added 2 pictures in the manual for this to be explained. Its a big section, 2 pages out of the current 15.


In another section of the manual, I have explained region properties, that knowledge is needed before a reader learns about the projectile movements.


Players income:

Regarding Income for the players, I still am not sure how to do this. I have created a list of possible solutions.

By domination, harvesters or resource nodes. I don't know yet. Suggestions are welcome.


What is needed?:

At the beginning of the manual. I have created a list of things that are needed to be in the box. It is odd to realise that some things aren't needed in amounts while other things require more cards.

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Google is not my friend today. I tried searching for letters in bronze, silver and gold. The trick is, to get them all in the same writhing style and size for printing.

I will be needing H, S, D, R and M (P) for the statistics levelling.

No problems with the other 4, even the P was available while the M was sufficient.


Only the H and D are really needed in bronze, silver or gold. Since they increase a lot.

A big pile of M, R or S is intimidating :)


Well, I also could say that I am having problems with getting the bronze, silver and gold colours in Word. Since all other cards can simply be printed by Word.


So, any suggestions?

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I guess, there are no suggestion then. Doesn't matter, I keep the colours red, blue and dark yellow then :D. Works just as fine.

For H and D: Red is +1, Blue is +6 and Yellow is +30. That would be the best configuration. The R and S will remain black just like the M.


Next issue's:

Deciding on starters set where expansions are additions to the story? This way there are still way to many starting units as possibilities. Further more, I need to keep them small and without much technology. This should come with expansions packs.

Each expansion pack should be another decade of war. Starting in 1941, yet another world, would be funny. Where the starting units are existing tanks. Yet the technology goes in a different way. Just like in Red Alert. But perhaps that is a bit too much of a rip off.

Suggestions or opinions are welcome.


My co-worker doesn't like the idea where 2 players choose units on before hand. Each has the choice of every type out of 3 of that type. In the first box.

"Why?" he asked. Well, I want to refrain from 2 or more sides with colours. I rather have custom armies where players can decide which units they want. With one colour on all units, I reduce the amount of pieces for the board. After all, if you look at magic, all players can have all cards. It's more of an economic and dynamic goal. He understood that but would think about it too for another solution.


With the unit statistics card you can claim which unit is yours. Unless a mind control card is on the unit.

However, perhaps I should allow some sort of equal starting units to indicate fairness. But how to indicate this on the board? It is sure that I should refrain from using colours. The same "problem" arises for the production facilities and income units. But I could double these simply by giving another picture.

Suggestions, opinions?


I also wonder if I should have 3 armour types in the first box. Special units are out of the question. I tried having 3 types, that's a total of 9, then 3 of each with a defence structure and wall, plus the production facilities. But soon the amount of types would go in the 40. O well, that's a bit to much for the first box :D. So only 2 types then.


Infantry and ..... If I do tanks, where are the lighter vehicles? And vice versa.

With vehicles as second choice, players lack the power for destroying certain key structures.

With tanks as second choice, the game might lack destroying speed in normal combat.


With each box, a new armour type would be added. Plus some new anti units from the previous boxes.

Perhaps someone could tell me which one they like to see as second choice, in the first box:

Infantry (first choice), and since the technology should be low...

Second choice?: 4 wheeled that are light armoured, other slower 4 wheeled, very Light tanks or just Light tanks.

Not much choice now, is there? The Light Tanks do give some balancing problems. I want to keep them out as well.

What would you like to see?

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Ogremap does not have what I want. The map that I "re" created has even less the feeling of a desert. So I went looking on the internet.





I found something like this:




And why, for the love of god, why aren't there any games out there with this texture? Imagine the next dune game in an environment like this. Of course you are looking from a great distance.










This calls for experimenting. The site is located here: http://www.geocontrol2.com/e_index.htm

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well x3m can you break down the questions cause I can't nake them out....

I would gladly like to help but your posts are a bit confusing....

my word what a b-e-a-utiful landscape....

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Well, there was no question in the last post. But it is a result of what I was currently doing. You can always suggest something. Or ask what I was asking in previous posts. Just quote them if you want ^^.


0. I draw hexagons on paper and draw a map in them. Then, if I want to, I cut out the hexagons for reshaping the map.

The build speed is extremely slow

The result in quality is extremely low

The playability is high


My current main goal is to create better maps still existing out of hexagons. I use 3 possible new ways to approach this. All 3 are still paper based.


1. I print out a map on paper and draw in the hexagons later. This doesn't give the wanted results since maps are not following the pattern. The build speed is slow (drawing hexagons later)

The result in quality is medium for hexagons, high for texture

The playability is low


2. I print out pieces of maps and cut out the hexagons. Then I can relocate these hexagons at will. But the transaction between fields can be very abrupt.

The build speed is slow (but mistakes are small if they happen)

The result in quality is high

The playability is medium


3. I create the map in a hexagon editor. The map is immediately correct to the hexagons. And I could cut them out. But I also could create another map in the same hexagon editor.

The build speed is high

The result in quality is (supposed to be) high

The playability is high


Ogremap falls under the third category.

Ogremap has a medium quality. But the build speed is high and the playability is medium due to incorrect textures.

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And why, for the love of god, why aren't there any games out there with this texture? Imagine the next dune game in an environment like this. Of course you are looking from a great distance.


The clue is at the bottom of the pics: generation time 12min and 24min respectively. Games have to render their graphics in real time.

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@ Spectral Paladin.


Of course it took time :D. It is a picture creator.


Once created, it is saved and can be recalled. That's why there are a lot of pictures of them already. You simply can click them.


I haven't tested the program yet. But if possible, I will use it to create good looking textures. Besides, the regions don't have to be that big. And 1 picture can be cut into smaller interesting segments. All I need to do is view one directly from above. Not a 45 angle.


Test planned this Tuesday. :)

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Well, I already have tested it. Installed the demo version 2.


2 times, and I waited patiently with the first time.


First time result. After 30 minutes a blue screen except for the top. I am pretty sure that with only a map size of 64 where default is 1024 and 100 X 100 meters instead of 22500 x 3000 meters. Well, that would be no problem? Right?


Second time, it crashed right after clicking generating. While I tried exactly the same.


So Ogermap >>> Geocontrol for what I had in mind.



I tried Hexographer, simply the demo


And here the results:




Well, I still need to cut of some edges. That I have to do in pain. But never the less. I new that my squared map would not be squared after applying the right editor :).

I am very happy with what I have found.


And it is great to use for Dune maps as well. It has in the demo also sandy dunes and less mountain than the one I have used. For the orange regions, I used lava. For the forests I also have a choice of less forest.


Starting regions have a vortex symbol and 3 resources. The crosses have 2 resources, and the 1 has just 1 resource. At least on that map.


And the best part of it all is that the hexagons can be cut out separately and twisted 60 degrees and still fit with an inaccuracy of 0,0004%. (209 x 181 for the hexagon) The editor also allows for other shapes of hexagons. Great for slopes to go up/down hill. But I need to calculate those and come up with an adjusted hight.


Yes, now I am happy.

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Worked on the manual yesterday evening. I worked on the "what if a unit has 2 or 3 weapons" and the extra costs. And the "why 2 or 3 weapons?" 8)


This brings us back to the special weapons; or ways to crush infantry or light units. Special sabotage like blowing up structures yet not be able to kill other units is also one of these special weapons.  Even some sort of EMP that kills the heavy units yet leaves alone the infantry and structures could be considered to be special. 8)


Then we have also the hard counters where a part of the weapon is special. This means that Bunker Buster Rocket has 450 + 450S. Where all targets with 450 will receive twice the normal damage. Yet the weapon is (was) only 1,5 times expensive. :)

A small update:


Since everyone had talks about tanks crushing infantry. I thought to take a look at it again:


So I did, and I have reached a conclusion.

But god forbid posting it here. :D

I posted that 14 december 2012. And yeah, I recalculated some stuff about this issue. But I did some calculations again, since I didn't have a good feeling about it today. I worried about the balance. Where normal combined weapons work perfectly. What about the special weapons? ???


The rule about special weapons is that they can only target 1 type of armour. And this is only possible if there are 2 or more armour types.

As solution for the costs calculation I had the price multiplied by 0,5 for the weapon. It seemed fair and logical back then. :|


But after doing some hard math I discovered that each set of types has it's own reduction factor. I should have known, since having only 1 type would have no reduction factor. Or actually 1.

So in other words. The set 50 has 1. The set 100 has 1. The set 150 has 1. etc.

After some calculations as example, the set 50+150+300 has 0,6. :O Not 0,5.++


So where the heck did I get that 0,5 from? :blink:


Normal weapons are not supposed to be in "other worlds". But by adding the right mix (another complete system), they are OP and UP against the one world and of course balanced against themselves. 8)


Special weapons are not to be used in "other worlds" then. But I already warned for this for the normal weapons. :(

But it gets worse. As soon as a type is added to the existing list. Where normal weapons are still perfectly balanced. The special will get a different factor. >:(


I tried reaching infinite number of types. But that results in 0. No costs for a special weapon. :wacko: And yes, if there is only 1 divided by infinite. Indeed 0.


Depressing post if you ask me. I guess I just have to prepare 1 list of types with a good looking factor. And declare that the specialized units are only to be used in that world. As soon as another list of types enters from another world. The specialized unit will be OP or UP, there is no balance then. :(


¿ R.I.P. ?; BunkerBuster/TankKiller/CrushingInfantry/Tanya/ExtremeSniper/Dogbite/Virus/EMP/etc.

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